Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - Rub-a-Dub
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TheRoyalFamily
 Posts: 62 |
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But 95% isn't good enough for some people. They complain loudly if this line or that word is changed. Heaven forbid if an entire joke is re-written!
But none of those shows are terribly Japanese, meaning they aren't filled with Japanese culture stuff. Not even Death Note. Very easy to keep how they are, because there isn't really anything that would need to be changed to make sense. Also, I'd imagine that the translators of the script that you read in subtitles or whatever were done by good writers. Plus, those are all older series, and relatively older dubs compared with what we are getting today. I've read stuff by older translators (that would have worked around that time period) that say today's translators are at times pulled straight from the fansubbers/scanlators, and they don't have the writing chops to do it like it should be done (and sometimes their mastery of Japanese can be called into question as well). Just for comparison, watch any regular show or movie, and put the subtitles on. You will find that the spoken stuff is pretty off the subtitles (for me, by a distracting amount, so much so that I don't watch movies with my family anymore, because they always turn on the subs, even when my harder-of-hearing mother isn't watching). |
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Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
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Hear hear! I'll join your five-man group. I'm cool with liberal dubs as long as the original Japanese is provided. I thought the Ghost Stories dub was awesome! And the Sgt. Frog dub sounds like it's right up my alley. |
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Hypeathon
Posts: 1176 |
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Count me in the bandwagon of 5 people who approves of more liberal dubs. For the most part, I don't mind accurately translated dubs and whatever I do mind, I wouldn't feel that bothered by it. I would think "ooookaaaaaay..." and that's it. That being said, I think depending on the setting of the show and traits of characters applied through the dialogue among other elements, more flexibility with a dub to me can add another level of entertainment for the show. I like how with the Big Windup dub, it felt more life was given to the characters who were mostly teenagers by sounding more like teenagers and thus acting more like teenagers. If more flexibility such as that were to be applied to dubs with the everal elements of applying lines, characterization and what not, then another layer of entertainment would be added for me as oppose to the script writer think anxiously, "oh man, I better play it safe and not screw it up."
Let me jump into the bandwagon of this argument also while I'm at it. This is why I like Roger Craig Smith's, "It's 10 percent voice, 90 percent character" phrase mentioned here. There was even a segment of a panel at Anime Boston 2010 where Vic and Troy (yeah, yeah, non-fans of these guys don't have to listen) discussed about just that. While I'm guilty of doing the "voice actor guessing game" thing myself, I really do it with more of an enthusiastic approach. I mean all actors will have certain vocal ranges, but at the same time, I can tell how the characters act different based on speech and mannerisms and what-not. And the way I see it, compared to say Tara Strong or John DiMaggio where they do some very disticntive roles, anime dub actors don't exactly have that privilege with applying all the vocal ranges they used from their demo reels considering the types of characters usually seen in anime are not that diverse. |
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Ichigo77
 Posts: 389 Location: California |
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While I don't download fan subs I have also began to have a problem with shelf space. I had to buy another shelf because I so much stuff and now I have no more room for another shelf. I started to digitally download what I could and I have found it works great. I still buy somethings, usually stuff I really like but for other tv shows and movies I like but don't feel the need to have the disc I just buy off of itunes. For example I bought the blu rays of shows like Lost, Heroes, and How I met your Mother and than with other shows like Make it or break it, Secret Life of the American Teenager, and Pretty Little Liars I buy off of itunes. I began buying novels off of ibooks which is saving me even more shelf space and even buying some comics using the marvel and DC apps since I already have a closet full of comic book boxes, and I have to say reading comics on the ipad is pretty cool. Also I started buying video games on steam which not only have saved me shelf space but they have amazing sales. Another way to cut down on shelf space is to get rid of stuff you know you will never finish collecting or something that can be bought in a box set. I freed up so much shelf space just by getting rid of a bunch of manga I knew I would never buy another volume to. Also if you have single dvd's and want to buy more than just get the box set. For example I had the first 2 bleach dvd's, paranioa agent dvd 1, and samurai champloo dvd 5 but all of those are in box sets. So by getting rid of those single dvd's and buying the box set I have much more room. By doing all of that I now have 4 full shelves and 3 half shelves available now.
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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I'll bite. Not exactly your idea-but I ran down Koyasu's list & went for anything indicating an English license, though not necessarily an English dub (meaning available in some manner to English speakers legally) I quit between U & V when I hit 250 which still puts him over Wendee Lee. I didn't eliminate pieces of ongoing titles that haven't been officially licensed as we might still get them (Sgt Frog Funi!!!!) 16 are sub-only & 6 are streaming so I'll assume sub. However 13 were released dub only in the US. And there's about 20 more to go thru, but I know at least half have been released
Not going there. Besides, you know the encyclopedia is volunter. I've added some listings, though not in awhile. I've noticed the English side is patchy, but also later ep characters are sometimes not included It is an excellent resource, but very much a work in progress. Thank you to everyone who makes it possible, but by all means if you know stuff that's missing, please add it because there might be someone out there who'd like to know the info. You might make the entry that tips someone toward buying that title or at least watching it.
But I figure there must be SOMETHING to the original if people want to see it. I hated the Ghost Stories dub as grating (by the 2nd disk I was already sick of half the jokes because they were all in the same vein (Christian Slater, christian fundamentalist, & lesbian jokes), HOWEVER, they at least went for a title pretty low on everyone's desire list which was the point. Some of us have been waiting for Sgt Frog for years. I could care less about the dub because the Japanese cast rocks, but it would be nice to get a good dub I don't have to wince at. On the other hand, it shouldn't matter since I'm buying it so they're getting their money. Boycotting the product would be stupid because it'd be denying me at least getting my hands on the show. Funi just lacks ADV's knack with adapting humor (outside of a few exceptions ADV did pretty well with the localizations)
However, the original wasn't that bad. Granted, I also enjoyed Haunted Junction. I watched GS subbed. ADV had their fun. Maybe it sold more copies at the time, but I can't think bowing to trendy humor necessarily holds up years later. I questioned the Christian Slater jokes at the time because I figured half the audience didn't remember him. Besides, no one in the VA dub cast has ever come close to Heathers, much less other stuff Slater's done, so it was just sad never beens making fun of a has been.
There's a dif in the types of voices in question. Most of us would look twice running into someone who actually sounds like Spongebob. American cartoons aimed at kids go more for voices to get a laugh or superheroes. In anime we're often seeing something relatively realistic if not downright serious, Mel Blanc (wonderful) dealt in overblown exageration. THe Looney Tunes guys are pretty much all over-the-top/larger-than-life. TRUST ME. I appreciate Tokyo Pop brought over some interesting titles, but I can't believe I'm the only one who found a few of the voices grating in GTO because TP apparently couldn't pay for more than 10 VAs so they ended up trying to vary their voices, but a couple hit fingernail-on-chalkboard for me. Good VAs. Wonderful VAs. They just needed to have hired more. Most of them had at least one or 2 good voices in the title, but it's similar to the earlier complaints about one VA for the title. They had more than 1, but the title has a lot of episode characters. Considering their voices ARE their livelyhood, there's a certain amount of familiarity involved. A studio doesn't hire Johnny Depp to look like Justin Bieber in a movie (OK, I guess one could). They hire Depp to BE Depp in the role. In Japan, they hire Ms. Noto to BE Ms. Noto. If they wanted Ms.Ohtani, they'd hire Ms.Ohtani |
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CG-LOVER
 Posts: 355 Location: East Lansing, MI |
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Well, a very interesting Answerman this week which included topics that I care about quite a bit actually.
For the first question I largely agree with the Answerman on the response, I mean those are the facts about how it all works. And I agree that some dubs don't always work out so well when it comes to the translation, but like with the example the Answerman used I feel that many of those cases are when the English writers seem to think that they can do a better job writing the show than the original creators. What I mean is that they might change the original script so radically regardless whether it's even necessary or not (though there may be the rare case when change can be a good thing, Ghost Stories anyone?  ). But in the end there are very few shows where I felt that way at all and I am largely pleased by most of the dubs I watch. So with that in mind I found it a bit unsettling when I saw the Answerman had written that most of English dubs out there today supposedly lack the "effort to make characters sound like actual characters" or "characters who feel and sound comfortable in their own language" or empathy of that sort. I mean like I said, I've seen some shows where the dub kind of screwed up but certainly not most of the dubs I've watched. Most of the the dubs I watch are fairly high quality in my opinion, and manage to include the empathy that he speaks of. So I'd like to say that I personally think the Answerman is exaggerating and is being a little to harsh towards the English dubbing industry as a whole here.
On the second question I'll just say if it ain't broke don't fix it. I mean as one of the few English dub fans still around I'll say that I really don't have an issue with hearing some of my favorite voices over and over. I've gotten to enjoy most of them and I frankly think they do a great job. And as long as they continue to do those jobs well, I don't care if it's a voice actor I've heard often. In fact I'm glad because I know that they will deliver a performance that is well worth watching. The only time where I get upset over something like this is when I hear the same VA playing multiple different characters in the same show. I think the most recent example of this I've seen is in the anime "Monster", where Michael McConnohie pretty much plays every other old guy on the show (and there are a lot of them)! And he's not the only one on the show who does it either, far from it actually. Now I don't care how good a VA you are then (and McConnohie is one of my absolute favorites), THAT is infuriating! But as long as these guys keep it to one or two characters per show I think it's fine. Also, it is true that American animation does the same thing by reusing actors, so I don't really understand why fans get so upset over stuff like this. And finally the fansub question. Again I think that the Answerman makes a great point about the availability of online streaming and how it won't force you to buy discs that you have to store. Still though, even if we didn't have online streaming did this guy really think that he had a legitimate excuse here? You don't have the space? Are you serious? That's gotta be one of the worst excuses I've ever heard! I mean geez, I have a fair collection of DVDs myself and even then they only take up the space a small bookcase. It's just plain ridiculous that you think you have the right to watch fansubs just because you don't think you have the shelf space! Well I certainly hope that you at least choose online streaming as a replacement for fansubs then, and if it isn't available via streaming then I suggest being patient and waiting for it for a change. Ether do that or get some shelf space for at least a few DVDs, because they really aren't the big, fat containers you seem to think they are. |
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Myaow
 Posts: 1068 |
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My favorite dub is Aura Battler Dunbine because each and every one of the background characters is voiced by Chris Patton/Greg Ayres/Andy McAvin. In the last couple of volumes, I kept a running count of how many times poor Greg Ayres got killed off by a giant robot bug. I think it was seven times in the last single volume alone.
Best dub. |
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Sunday Silence
 Posts: 2047 |
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As much as I hate Vic Mangina, he does have some range. I didn't even know he was voicing Death Scythe from Soul Eater until I looked at the DVD credits. |
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Youkai Warrior
 Posts: 505 Location: Sarayashiki |
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Thank you! This person sounded downright whiny and lazy. "Oh I don't have the shelf space, I'm not paying for that, why should I do that, I've seen these shows already, I don't want to see them again, anyone who collects has no life, blah, blah, blah." Downright whiny. Answerman gave a good response to that person. They don't have to buy every single anime they have seen. Especially if they didn't like the anime. But if there was an anime they liked, buy it! There is nothing wrong with seeing something again. People see things again because their good. It sounds like this person just used anime as crack, and really has no interest in it. My advice to them: Get a new hobby and find something that you like. Get a subscription to Crunchyroll and try out titles, try it before you buy it. And if you buy DVDs it won't kill you. I have a small bookshelf with anime DVDs, it's not huge, it's a moderate, healthy amount with some great anime, takes no space whatsoever. If I'm unsure about something, I rent it or borrow it before I buy it. I'm into saving money too. And by the way, this person said they watched a ton of anime? I haven't seen anywhere near a ton, and I'm just fine. Sounded like someone had way too much time on their hands. Now who has no life? 
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jr240483
 Posts: 4378 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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unfortunately fansubs are a double edge sword.
Even though I dont watch subs i dont like fansubs at all cause not only it aint the official translations , they dont go that series let alone the industy in general good. Esepcially when people download them instead of either watching or downloading the legal ones. What's worse it's the same for the english versions too cause i have seen too many illegal streaming sites streaming them and video sites like youtube and veoh and now even facebook and my space. Unless both sides can handle this , it's gonna damage anime in general badly. Also , I kinda have no problem hearing the same VA for different series. However people have to remember that some of them are in their own Unions and are mostly commited to that Union. Since Funi has that ( and most of them are former ADV vets ) it's kinda natural for them to use the same VA for the series except for some ocasions for some series. They never used any of the funi VA for any of the Tenchi Muyo sequels even though they could , and the same when they also licensed slayers too , but they kept the originals so it's saying something. |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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Or rather, if they are in the Union, they can work on mixed professional / volunteer productions, as long as all the professionals are in the Union, but they cannot work alongside paid non-Union actors. If Funimation wanted to hire actors in the Guild, they'd probably have to outsource that production to a union shop (I reckon BangZoom is, since they've done work for the Tonight Show), and they couldn't use any of their existing voice actors. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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 The simple truth is there just isn't enough work for that many VA's to bother so many have gone to do other things as the bills still keep coming in. Also I'm quite sure most if not all would rather have work in front of a camera than in front of a screen, or monitor in a small room with a mic.
Last edited by Mohawk52 on Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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UtenaAnthy
 Posts: 694 |
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Thinpacking is a good idea and I plan to do this at some point, I'm going to put everything in slimline CD cases, chuck all the standard DVD singles cases and keep all the paper inserts and covers and boxes for if I ever move into a mansion/palace (ok actually it's just so they're there if I ever want to look at them or decide to sell some of my DVDs), that might not be for another 2 years though. CD binders scratch discs, in my experience, one bit of dirt gets in there and voila, skip skip skip. It would be great if they actually did work, but they don't. Incidentally, I am not a careless person, I did my best to take care of CD binders but it's really hard to get dirt out of there once it gets in. I assume a DVD notebook is the same thing, if it's not, please correct me. I love Billy bookcases, I have two of the 60 cm across, 202 height ones, one with eight shelves of DVDs and the other with eight shelves of books including an extension shelf. I'm planning to get some more next week as I need more shelf space and have moved to a room where I can have more shelves. Portable hard-drives are a good idea for storing downloads, but they can die on you, and legal downloads often have DRM as Mohawk52 stated, I have a USB modem and I can download a 20-30 minute video in less than 30 minutes (often more like 15-20), of course I have a download limit which is probably the tradeoff. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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PMDR
Posts: 140 |
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Not obviously. Not every import starts with a script. The process can be very sterile with the anime visuals as nothing more than raw material for a process. For example, the producers sends several show episodes to several different writers all at the same time. Some of those writers will sit in a room often with the sound off and try to come up with a script based on what they see and perhaps some general idea of what is going on and who the characters are. Sometimes their concepts mesh with whatever the other writers do; sometimes not. A story editor will fix that up later. The script and timing notes are sent back and eventually polished into the final dub script. But in the end, no true translation is involved. If the original studio supplies a translation, probably nobody reads it. Voltron was done this way and ultimately made probably a billion dollars in today's money. The original dub of Robotech was done in a similar way, and many other TV dubs after that. Things tend to be handled quite differently nowadays but they don't HAVE to be. You can still stick a writer in a room with a video (anime or not, makes no difference) and no sound and eventually a script will emerge. Try it. In spite of the comment about studios being involved in the dub script, there's plenty of cases when the original studio has no involvement at all once the anime is exported from Japan. I'd venture to say no involvement is the norm. Of course Toei cares about their headliner properties. They should. But they sure didn't care about some of the other things they have sold. Likewise, Sunrise cares about the Gundam dub script, in theory, but probably not so much about the Dirty Pair dub from Streamline or ADV. |
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