Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - Rub-a-Dub
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rabrek
 Posts: 188 |
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Er... the person who wrote in never said he doesn't have the space. (Why do people keep reading it as about the space?) The relevant quotes are "I just don't like the idea of having DVDs and merchandise all around my house" and "I just don't want to have a ton of DVDs laying around my house" and "I don't like watching an anime series more than once." It's a matter of not having a collector mentality. It's not a space issue. That's why the question was about how he could support the industry "without having to buy DVDs and merchandise". People who don't keep a lot of stuff around aren't claiming they don't have the space - They Just Don't Want The Physical Stuff. |
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gingi789
 Posts: 56 |
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Ugh. I agree. Mine is smaller than yours (only 500GB), and even then it's not full. I asked one of the tech guys where i worked, if my hard drive failed, how i could get the stuff that had been on it, and he said "sure! We can do that for 150-200. But you're better off just buying a new external hard drive." It's one of the reasons that i don't download the series episode by episode off of Itunes or the Funi website. I'd rather pay for the series once on DVD or Blu-Ray instead of having to pay for it again if my computer or hard drive crashes. |
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Greed1914
 Posts: 4427 |
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Many shows are lucky if they can break even, and they have to count on the few big hits to actually carry the load. They have to spread that money across many titles, so it's either do what they do now and be able to dub everything, or do what you want and dub only a few of them.
I have to agree. I'm far more impressed that somebody like Crispin Freeman can use his regular speaking voice for many characters and still come off as different every time. Yeah, I'm fully aware that Alucard and Togusa are the same voice, and yet, it doesn't feel the same to me. I'd say it's preferable than a lot of other types of cartoons where we have actors talking to themselves. It really breaks the illusion when I hear Phil LaMarr voicing two characters in the same conversation, even if he alters his voice. |
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zgripţuroicǎ
 Posts: 140 Location: Newburgh, NY |
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It's true, in Japan they have VAs that'll show up in multiple series in the same season. I guess the difference for me is, I don't watch everything that gets put out in Japan. I also don't religiously follow VAs as some do, because I honestly don't see the attraction they have for some. This results in me hearing the same person in at most, 2 or so shows in the same season.
With R1 releases, much of what I like tends to get picked up by Funi when it comes out here, which means that if it gets a dub, I can usually do a paint by numbers sort of deal matching the characters to the actor who usually gets cast for that sort of thing. I also tend to not buy anime for a while, then go on a big spree and pick up a ton of things at once. Because of this, if I were to put on the English track, I'll usually get hit with the same actors over and over. I wouldn't really say it's superficial to say you don't like them because they sound the same, though That's a pretty arrogant thing to say when you're talking of something as subjective as personal preference. I don't understand a lot of these arguments I see on here, like the sub vs. dub flame wars, or people expressing a personal opinion and getting put down for it by someone else with a holier-than-thou attitude. Unless we watch our anime together, why do some of you guys constantly have to slam others over their preference in how they choose to view their shows? So many people seem to take the expression of any opinion contrary to their own as a personal attack, when it's just someone saying what they like. Meh, guess that's the internet for you. It's not exactly known as the last bastion of rational thoughts and arguments. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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I don't care about the dub. It's icing on the cake. If it good-yeah! (Hellsing) if it reeks, there's the sub.
I was simply stating some of my issues with dubs. Bang Zoom overall seems to take a certain amount of care to come within the general meaning of the script while the Texas guys have always flown a bit more fast-&-loose. ADV usually managed the ballpark, but did what they needed to to be funny when required while Funi, if the subtitles are any indication, have no qualm about completely altering PLOT points which I sort of take exception to & I have come to expect little from their scripts. I understand humor varies between different places in the US, much less different countries, but I really question the need to change careers of characters in Case Closed. That is a plot point. Yes, the name changes get annoying (although it did get amusing at times. It was ok to use very Texas sort of names but not a Japanese name that does get used in the US or at least in my neck of the woods.) Maybe because it seems so similar to what we got on Pokemon & the like or Kimba from my own childhood--the licensee running roughshod over the original product as though they're improving it. Can you really defend what was done-splicing as many as 3 eps into one-to sell CCS to the US market? I didn't LIKE paying $18-$25 per dvd for 3 or 4 subtitled episodes (for that price we surely could have gotten a dub), but the show itself was so wonderful, I didn't mind paying a premium to get it in an intact form. But we're not talking CCS being made safe for the youth of America. We're talking titles being packaged presumably for the American anime audience so why remove the ref to White Day from Tsubasa? It's a basic component of the witch's personality to expect stuff. Not that it matters to them as long as I buy their product, right? They could dub it all in monotone with the same VA as long as I get the Japanese vocal track with decent subtitles. I love it when they give me the fricken Japanese cast list because I don't know every Japanese VA's voice by heart (Koyasu, Ishida, Hoshi, Yamaguchi, I'm pretty good at picking out, but there is a guy who sounds similar to Hoshi-just lacks some of the high notes- so it's really nice to get my suspicions confirmed or denied. As I said, the later 1-or-2 episode characters don't always make it into the cast lists at this site. Case Closed is just obscene-too long, but filled with excellent guests throughout the run) |
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zgripţuroicǎ
Posts: 140 Location: Newburgh, NY |
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Most of my post was directed at The King of Harts rather than you, CCSYueh. Don't want to cause any offense if you thought I was raging on you again.
I don't really care how they do their dubs here any longer, because I'm a sub guy. If it's doing things for dub fans, great, I was just listing some of the reasons I don't like it. I'm old enough (barely, it must be said) to remember the horrors of dubs in the past. To give credit where it's due, anyone would have to agree that today's dubs are exponentially better than many of the anime I grew up watching, which tended to be from the 80s up to the early 90s. Aside from my issues with the small pool of talent and certain VAs voices, the better part of why I watch them is twofold. First (and probably more powerful than I'd like to admit) force of habit. With the shows I grew up watching, I got into the habit of switching to the subtitled track because dubs really were bad back then. So it's now weird for me to watch a show in English if I have the option to get the original. Second, I watch anime partly because I'm interested in Japanese culture. I'd rather hear the original actors, just like if I buy a foreign film, I won't play it in English unless the original dialogue track is absolutely wretched. That second reason for me watching subs also leads to my opinion on changes to the script. I don't really mind if you want to change names, but I get irked when companies rewrite the script to expunge all references to Japanese culture that are more obscure than a Godzilla joke, like in your example from Tsubasa. I haven't seen that, so I'll take your word for it, but that sort of thing just irritates me. Is their really anyone who watches anime who's going to say "What the hell is this Japanese holiday nonsense doing in my show?" It only bothers me more when they do it with a show that's based almost entirely around references to some aspect of Japanese culture, like so many of the manga/anime jokes in Sgt. Frog. Of course, I seem to recall they did that for the dub, but left the subs as the jokes were, so it's not a real issue for me there. I get that they do such things to try and make it more marketable, but for shows that do things like the Sgt. Frog dub did (and change the script like that in the subs to) it strikes me as hoping for larger sales from greater accessibility while alienating a good chunk of existing fans who wanted to buy it for those things. Same thing with networks that air anime (aside from the adultswim and anime networks, which tend to be okay with such things) purging anything that might be considered inappropriate for a 5 year old to see, alienating the older audience who was asking for it to begin with. I'm not asking Fox or ABC to air "Loli × Shota Tentacle Rape Sodomy Fest V" at 6PM, but if they're going to air something like Escaflowne (I seem to recall that was the one FOX murdered), don't cut it to ribbons to try and appease the most prudish minority of your audience at the expense of everyone else. Air it at 10PM if you have to. The FCC doesn't care then if someone swears, smokes, drinks, or maybe shows a little skin. But don't cut it to pieces and act surprised when you have to can it because it was unwatchable. |
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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The reader who says he has no interest in re-watching anything he's seen reminds me of my dad. He had this same policy towards movies he watched, though his reason for it was so he could watch as many movies as he could during his lifetime--no time to waste treading ground he already covered.
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The King of Harts
 Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
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Liking School Rumble more than Ghost in the Shell is a personal preference. Calling out Crispin Freeman's ability as an actor simply because he can't manipulate his voice like Tom Kenny is nonsense. And whether you find me arrogant or not, I still think people who go "Vic has a role? Welp, I guess this character is going to sound like Ed Elric then" are ridiculous. The point of my post was to state that Same Voice =/= Same Character, which is the opposite of what Dagon123 seems to be saying. I get being annoyed by actors being used over again, but said actors' abilities to act should not be brought into play because they don't have huge vocal ranges. Voice acting is more than the words being spoken or what pitch they're spoken in, it's the the emotions conveyed through those words, which is something both Vic and Crispin are great at. Now if you want to disagree that both Crispin and Vic aren't good actors because they can't convey emotions well, fine, but don't say they aren't good actors because they can't sound like a high-pitched sponge.
This part I don't get. Nowhere in either of my posts did I (or anyone else for that matter) start a sub/dub war. I said I prefer my dubs more liberal, but didn't mention anywhere that it's the superior option. Nor did I put anyone down because of a personal opinion. So either you're misreading something, or you aren't referring to me in this part. |
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pomocho
 Posts: 20 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Amen. Thanks for your rousing defense. Like the person who submitted this message, I too have started to seriously shy away from the collector mentality that had completely possessed me when I was a teenager. I still have several boxes full of anime VHS and old manga back issues at my parent's house; I was a pack-rat, a compulsive collector, a big spender, a teenager who wasted every dime on Japanese cartoons and comic books, some of them good but several of them quite bad. Now when I visit my parents, I'm too embarrassed to even peep into my personal closet, too mindful of my once obsessive compulsion to collect, and I'll usually use the guest bedroom instead. Now that I'm in my late twenties, I cringe at the notion of owning too many physical copies of anime or manga titles. For one, I am a far more discerning viewer than I once was, and cannot sit through some of the same sort of garbage shows I might have tolerated in the past; if I'm going to lay down the money on something, it had better be more than disposable and unmemorable entertainment. As such, I am also fairly picky about which titles I'll own and which do not warrant the purchase. While I continue to watch anime programs and read manga legally (Netflix, Hulu, libraries), I normally only purchase stuff I'm over-the-moon about, the sort of show that warrants repeated viewings (for example, an entire section of my bookshelf is dedicated to Tezuka... Buddha, Black Jack, Phoenix, etc.). At my last count, I own a few Ghibli and Satoshi Kon movies, and maybe four or five DVD box-sets. I'm old, gosh darn it, and pay bills, and go to class, and live with my tolerant but anime-averse partner. I can't stand the clutter, the messiness, the constant upkeep of a massive wall-to-wall collection of DVDs that will most likely collect dust and never be watched a second time... nor do I want to return to the mentality that ownership constitutes a means of proving to others that you are some sort of "supreme otaku overlord." Because it's not. And trust me, I'm not nostalgic for those big boxes and bookshelves full of obscure Japanese cartoons. Not at all. |
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zgripţuroicǎ
Posts: 140 Location: Newburgh, NY |
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The same voice doesn't necessarily equate the same character, it's true. To you, perhaps, these VAs sound sufficiently different that it's not an issue to you. For me, many of these actors have maybe one or two roles where I felt they really got into the character, and for the rest of them, it's just them. I guess an analogy to cinema would be Keanu Reeves. Every one of his movies I've seen (and I've seen more than just the Matrix film) he's cast as a different character, in a different setting, with different issues. And in all of them, he's a sullen, wooden, emotionless guy. He might act slightly different, but not to the point where any of his characters are really unique in any way. I don't watch anime to listen to a VA do their voice. I watch it because I'm interested in the story and characters. For me, while the most used VAs may change things up a little bit, they just don't do it enough that I feel like they're actually getting into the character. And it boils down to opinion. Do they do a job well enough that you like it? Fine, good for you. There's no reason to call everyone who dislikes them superficial. It's not a question where you can have a single, cut and dry answer that everyone will agree with. I said it was arrogant because you were imposing your own opinion on the matter on everyone else as if yours were an incontrovertible fact.
I was referring to you, although the sub v. dub bit was a more general comment about the forums. You did, however, call everyone who feels that VAs sound too similar in their many roles superficial though. It's a put down, concerning a personal opinion. As I said before, from too similar to different enough is not something where you can hold the VA in question up to some sort of objective measurement and determine it one way or another. It's shades of grey, and up to the individual. Perhaps you didn't mean it as a put down, but calling an entire group of people superficial when one of them expresses his opinion isn't exactly the best way to pay them a compliment. Also, just because I don't like a VAs performance in shows doesn't mean I can't appreciate their acting ability. For one, it's something I can't do. Second, there are plenty of great actors I just can't stand. For example, John Wayne bores the tears out of me, but that doesn't in any way make him a bad actor. I just don't like him and his work. |
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reanimator
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About the Crunchy Roll guy, I understand that he doesn't want to buy stuffs. I love anime like everyone else, but I try not to buy merchandises except art books and magazines. Besides, I have no need for anime trinkets. As an adult in 30's, figurines and posters are just too embarrassing for me. Actually collecting can be problem because I know a friend of mine who collects all kinds of toys and trinkets overflowing in his tiny studio apartment.
The question is: is he a fan? No. He is just a conscientious viewer. By reading his collecting and viewing habits, he is more of a casual viewer of Anime, not the fan that we hope him to be. It's like paying for cable bill for premium channels. I don't have to say the obvious, but fans always spend some amount of money on whatever he or she is fan of. It's the most honest to be express love of things that we are fan of. We always see sports fans buy and wear their favorite team logo outfits. Movie fans are like that buying DVDs and posters. Music fans buy CD and T-shirts for favorite musician. Only downside is that he still relies on fansubs for lastest anime cravings. I hope he gradually steers away from fansubs while services like Crunchyroll, hulu, and etc improve their selections. After all, fansubs have no good intention whatsoever for well-being of Anime industry. |
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writerpatrick
 Posts: 671 Location: Canada |
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Maybe the better way of putting that is while many films are forgettable, GotF is one you can't forget even though you may want to. |
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Dagon123
Posts: 194 |
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I never called into question their acting ability, you've got that all wrong, in fact, I highly respect both Crispin Freeman and Johnny Bosch, But I'm not about to sit here while Answerman gos "Well derp herp FUNiamtion has every right to be terrible with their money and hire the same actors over again because people hear Tom Kenney and John DiMaggio do the same things, I win" My point is that FUNi could change it up, could change the vocal direction, get different actors, but they don't and it shows, if you can honestly with a straight face tell me that Wakka and Marcus Pheonix sound closer together then Alucard and Fuma, then your not getting it at all and you won't, just because they "can't" change their voice is no immediate excuse to say Tom Kenney is a bad actor because his name isn't "Crispin Freemen", They are both good actors, but their is an obvious difference in deliverance and that is fact, a Good example is Johnny Bosch going from Vash to Lelouch, he's trying, I know its him, but he's not just throwing his voice out there to be saturated, he's working hard and I know it, The only person I'm bashing is FUNimation, and defending actors, I feel sorry for anyone who has to work for them |
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mdo7
 Posts: 6254 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Interesting Answerman post indeed.
I have already known about how ADR and dubbing process work and I know this is not easy. The same thing can apply to Japan when they dub our video game, and American cartoon/TV Show into Japanese audio. About the person who watch more fansubs then the legal version of the anime. Well, be aware I used to watch fansub few years ago and I stop for numerous reasons: -to me I found it wasn't legal -censorship from Japanese network appear on the fansubs (nudity censored, and graphic violence get altered like Claymore for example when it broadcast on Japanese TV) -possible mistranslations, spelling and grammar mistake on the subs. Also too many profanity that probably shouldn't be there. -subs too small or doesn't stay long enough for me to read what the character said. That's why I'm glad to be watching anime on some legal site like Hulu, Youtube, Funi's video portal, and Viz's video portal. I need to start buying anime on DVDs/Blu-rays and maybe buy some episode on PSN to help the industry. Now for the uses and recycling of voice actors/actresses in most of English dub. I will agree that it can get annoying to hear the same VAs over and over again, same thing apply to when Japan used the same voice actors in anime like using Rie Kugimiya in numerous roles. I would love to see getting new talent or allow NA Animation to voice anime. Tell you the truth, I always thought some of our anime like Ghost in the Shell: SAC, KuroKami, Blood + could've been done by NA Animation VA. I always thought a lot of our NA Animation VAs like Tara Strong (Although I did recall she voiced a main character in Tekkaman Blade 2, and a small character in Sailor Moon before she moved to US), Nolan North (My personal favorite of mine and I would love to hear his voice in anime dub), John Dimaggio, James Arnold Taylor, Josh Keaton, and many others might have do a good job if they were ever to dub anime. Although I'm glad to see Ben Diskin and Hynden Walch getting more involved in anime. I wish Bandai, Viz, and probably Funimation could maybe outsource their ADR to Jack Fletcher. Jack will always use NA Animation VAs to do anime dubs. Also I always thought our VAs in Toronto like the same group that did Sailor Moon, Beyblade, Bakugan, and The Total Drama series could probably do more anime work then just one for kid. I would love to see Alyson Courtand Emilie Claire-Barlow could do a lot of anime role. I did recall that Geneon did outsourced 2 anime to Toronto. one of them was Interlude (which I believe had Terri Hawkes voicing one of the character beside Sailor Moon). Another anime which would have used the Toronto's VAs was Air Master. The dub was never finished when Geneon USA close it's branch. It was kinda sad, because I didn't want Ocean Group to be the only Canadian talent pool for dubbing anime for fans. I would love to see Viz, Bandai, Media Blasters (and Funi) to maybe outsource their dub to Toronto so I can hear a different VAs once in a while instead of the same old same old VAs. Not that I hate them but I want to hear something different in a dub once in a while. This is why I always do Fantasy dub cast/make your own dub cast on some variety sites like Toonzone, and Mania. These topic are still active and a lot of fans would kinda throw in dub cast idea like what would happen if Claymore was dub by Bang Zoom or Ocean Group, or if Shakugan No Shana was dub by Toronto VA (Emilie Claire Barlow as Shana, and Scott Mccord as Yuji Sakai) or if Kurokami was dub using North American VAs like Nolan North or Josh Keaton as Keita and Tara Strong as Kuro. 
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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You're not going to get past the non-union labor & the local. Funi is in Texas. They use actors in their area. A lot of the actors tend to be in LA or New York so Funi has a smaller pool to draw from. Anime dubbing doesn't pay all that much. It's not a living wage & most of the ones I've seen interviewed often refer to a day job or theater work, etc. One of Funi's VAs is or was a teacher. One of the LA VAs worked in a bank at the time of the interview. The number of people who can earn a living dubbing cartoons is pretty small & the number who can live off only dubbing anime is apparently pretty much non-existant.
It really depends on your opinion of acting. I don't consider Sponge Bob acting, but I hate that character. Sponge Bob is the anti-Christ. I also hated Ren & Stimpy & Beevis & Butthead You have t to admit the average cartoon in the US aimed at the juvenile audience isn't going to tax too many actors' ability as we see regularly in anime. They really don't even seem to need comedic timing. The kids are going to laugh whether they're off a second or not. |
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