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REVIEW: Eden of the East BLURAY


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tuxedocat



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2183
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 2:36 am Reply with quote
Carl always gets my attention when he posts high scores.

Glad I ordered this on Blu-ray, which should arrive this week. ---And I haven't even seen this series yet! My first experience will be on Blu-Ray 1080p. This weekend it's supposed to rain. Guess I know what I'll be doing when I'm not watching college football....

Rambling, must be the vicodin I'm taking for this root canal agony...

Anyway, really looking forward to seeing this show.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:06 am Reply with quote
I have a few problems with Eden of the East. Well, to be more accurate, the show has a few problems.

Akira's actions in episode one - and people's reactions to them - were too bizarre. Why make himself wake up where he did, and with a gun? How did he convince that guy to give him his pants? Why didn't the female cop arrest him for indecent exposure like a normal person would?

The idea that a man spoiler[who basically controls Japan would be unable to save it, but that maybe eleven regular people with only a fraction of his funds could instead, is just too far-fetched to be believable. Perhaps he was just doing it to see how normal Japanese people would react when given money and power. If he were serious about saving Japan, then shouldn't he just put his hundreds of billions (if not trillions) of yen together, and all of his influence he has established, and just do it himself? The young may provide interesting ideas but what do they know of saving an entire country?]

The very nature of the Eden of the East (the program) itself. spoiler[It is very powerful, but I do not remember (possibly because it was never adequately explained) how it was supposed to change the position of NEETs. It also comes across as too powerful (i.e. technologically advanced) for the world of today and yet too weak for a world in which mindwipes exist. Surely such a program is something that Facebook or Google could roll out in the next decade, but mindwipes are almost certainly further off than that.]

The friendship/relationship between the two main characters was never properly established and never felt genuine. What was going on between them? It is like the creators just couldn't make their minds up.

The fashion designer lady who spoiler[uses "magic" to fly. Oh please, this isn't Scooby Doo where some guy in a bedsheet is depicted as a real ghost, it is hard to believe that such a trick could be set up that fast and be so realistic as to fool anyone older than about six.]

And what was the show's preoccupation with penises????? There, I said it.
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Big Hed



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 1607
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:17 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
The idea that a man spoiler[who basically controls Japan would be unable to save it, but that maybe eleven regular people with only a fraction of his funds could instead, is just too far-fetched to be believable. Perhaps he was just doing it to see how normal Japanese people would react when given money and power. If he were serious about saving Japan, then shouldn't he just put his hundreds of billions (if not trillions) of yen together, and all of his influence he has established, and just do it himself? The young may provide interesting ideas but what do they know of saving an entire country?]


On the contrary. Eden of the East's premise bears a lot of relevance to contemporary society--particularly in the US, I'd argue--and is conceptually appealing to a large audience. spoiler[How many times have you heard somebody say something to the effect of: "Well if I were in charge, I'd do things differently."? Western society as whole--including Japan, which goes through a PM every year these days--has become dissatisfied with government and the political paralysis thereof (whether or not this sentiment is fair is another thing, and not really pertinent). If we examine the US specifically, there has been a groundswell of support for anti-incumbent/anti-establishment political figures that campaign at the so-called grassroots level, and market themselves as being one of the public (because how dare government try to keep "The People" from running THEIR country).

The Outsider's game resembles (thematically) this political movement. Here is an individual with considerable wealth and power who has grown contemptuous of their homeland. He's one of the people who had a hand in its downfall, or at least runs in the same circles as them in all likelihood. What to do to rectify the situation? Put the power to change Japan in the hands of people on the ground, and so this person does. There's real ground for asserting that this is more than a childish notion as well: multi-trillion dollar financial stimulus packages controlled by a relatively small number of people have in the last couple years have so far yielded only marginal successes insofar as saving the global economy goes. Yes, we can split hairs about how a single executor could still achieve far more than an administrative apparatus limited by strictly(?) defined public roles, and about how the world is more than the sum of its economic prosperity, but Eden's premise poses a close enough analogue in this regard, I think.

Conversely, consider also what history has already proven even just a couple dozen individuals can do with very little money (probably on the order of several tens of thousands of USDs) to inflict global calamity? A certain exemplary event's 9th anniversary was observed just last month... indeed, I wonder if Kamiyama elected to dub the missile strike "Careless Monday" rather than "Careless Tuesday" only because the former had a better ring to it. Having said that, I acknowledge (re)creation is a much greater challenge than destruction.]


Quote:
The very nature of the Eden of the East (the program) itself. spoiler[It is very powerful, but I do not remember (possibly because it was never adequately explained) how it was supposed to change the position of NEETs. It also comes across as too powerful (i.e. technologically advanced) for the world of today and yet too weak for a world in which mindwipes exist. Surely such a program is something that Facebook or Google could roll out in the next decade, but mindwipes are almost certainly further off than that.]


Well, consider that medical science has already ascertained that blunt-force trauma, short term oxygen deprivation, and various other violent occurrences can result in a spoiler["mindwipe". The human brain is a delicate instrument, and the understanding of it is bound to leap forward in the next ten years with the advent of increasingly accurate scanning technology and increasingly powerful computers with which to process data relating to the interconnection of neural pathways and the development of the brain (including the genetic origins of its complexity). My point is: if a bonk on the head is already sufficient to effectively destroy a person's memories, I don't have a hard time imagining more elegant means of doing so becoming practical in the next decade.]

Quote:
The friendship/relationship between the two main characters was never properly established and never felt genuine. What was going on between them? It is like the creators just couldn't make their minds up.


I suppose that's simply a matter of opinion. A viewer is either going to get swept up in the relationship as Saki did, or sit back and go: "No way, I'm not buying that."

Quote:
The fashion designer lady who spoiler[uses "magic" to fly. Oh please, this isn't Scooby Doo where some guy in a bedsheet is depicted as a real ghost, it is hard to believe that such a trick could be set up that fast and be so realistic as to fool anyone older than about six.]


I think you assume too much knowledge. As Carl (and Zac for that matter) implied, part of the pleasure of watching Eden of the East--and a central tenet of its premise--is that the viewer doesn't entirely understand the intimate workings of the technology or the people within.

Quote:
And what was the show's preoccupation with penises????? There, I said it.


Impotence. Impotence of all kinds.

Add: Sweet, I want those intelligent interviews that Carl mentioned. This is going to look great in HD...
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:58 am Reply with quote
Everybody says that if they were in power, they could do things better. Everybody. Doesn't mean that everybody is correct, oh no. spoiler[How are these Seleção supposed to do better than a man who has the experience, the massive wealth, business contacts, information control and management, the political favours which can let him manipulate the politicians at will . . . they can't. Doesn't matter what bright idea they have, to rebuild a country's economic and social fabric from the ground up requires ingenuity, yes, but also a lot more. The Seleção were given a drop in the bucket, which is hardly going to fix a nation.* The very people who screwed up the nation in the first place are likely to still be in positions of power where they can fix the nation. Perhaps if Mr. Outside stopped trying to pass off responsibility onto the common folk and actually tried to rectify the situation himself, as a sort of atonement, then something logical might actually get done.]

Er, about Juiz, how did that even work? spoiler[I get that she is a supercomputer (one of many), but how did she communicate the various favours? The transactions are easily hand-waved - she is a computer - but the various favours and the liaisons with all the necessary parties is a bit of a stretch.]

As for erasing spoiler[people's memories, no, I just don't like how it was done in the show. It was thrown in there with nothing to explain how he did it, let alone why. At least, I cannot recall any explanation given in the show. And I would be very surprised if there was a private hospital in ten years time which could surreptitiously erase people's memories for a fee.]

Scooby Doo special effects are still Scooby Doo special effects. In other words, something that belongs in a children's show. We got to see the wires and the rig (and wasn't there a helicopter?), but the other characters didn't. Getting it installed in a couple of hours is, again, too much of a stretch, for me at least.

Big Hed wrote:
Quote:
And what was the show's preoccupation with penises????? There, I said it.


Impotence. Impotence of all kinds.


Interesting interpretation, as much as I disagree with it.



*
Hey, about that; what about Japan was necessarily wrong anyway? Did they ever explain that? Sure, there were the NEETs, but they're a symptom, not a cause.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1524
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:36 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Everybody says that if they were in power, they could do things better. Everybody. Doesn't mean that everybody is correct, oh no. spoiler[How are these Seleção supposed to do better than a man who has the experience, the massive wealth, business contacts, information control and management, the political favours which can let him manipulate the politicians at will . . . they can't. Doesn't matter what bright idea they have, to rebuild a country's economic and social fabric from the ground up requires ingenuity, yes, but also a lot more. The Seleção were given a drop in the bucket, which is hardly going to fix a nation.* The very people who screwed up the nation in the first place are likely to still be in positions of power where they can fix the nation. Perhaps if Mr. Outside stopped trying to pass off responsibility onto the common folk and actually tried to rectify the situation himself, as a sort of atonement, then something logical might actually get done.]


All I can say is watch the second film where the reasoning for the Selecao selection is explained

dtm42 wrote:

Er, about Juiz, how did that even work? spoiler[I get that she is a supercomputer (one of many), but how did she communicate the various favours? The transactions are easily hand-waved - she is a computer - but the various favours and the liaisons with all the necessary parties is a bit of a stretch.]

As for erasing spoiler[people's memories, no, I just don't like how it was done in the show. It was thrown in there with nothing to explain how he did it, let alone why. At least, I cannot recall any explanation given in the show. And I would be very surprised if there was a private hospital in ten years time which could surreptitiously erase people's memories for a fee.]

Scooby Doo special effects are still Scooby Doo special effects. In other words, something that belongs in a children's show. We got to see the wires and the rig (and wasn't there a helicopter?), but the other characters didn't. Getting it installed in a couple of hours is, again, too much of a stretch, for me at least.



As for #11's "little trick" spoiler[At the end of the episode, the shot of her phone reveals that it was a "Level 3(?) Super Illusion" It was all smoke and mirrors pretty much. As previously established in the show, really strong, vivid hallucinations are possible (Especially for Akira), maybe whatever Juiz did just induced one.]

As for the memory loss spoiler[It was caused by a special hypnotic pulse that can be emitted through the phone. Take a listen whenever it occurs and you'll hear a distinctive staticy sound. And yes, there IS an institute of some sort that deals with memory whiping and it's name is shown on the Phones several times...I think Mr. Outside actually owns it....]

And how can Juiz accomplish all those wonderful thing? spoiler[The magic of super-advanced AI coupled with a crapload of money, I guess? Hehe. I don't think there's a realistic explanation for all it's power...I don't think one is really necassary because I really think the whole thing can be summed up as, "A magic phone that can do anything (for a price) is a really cool idea, lets make an anime about it!.] Very Happy
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Big Hed



Joined: 04 May 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:12 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Everybody says that if they were in power, they could do things better. Everybody. Doesn't mean that everybody is correct, oh no.


Exactly. I wasn't suggesting that giving 12 people with "vision" a hundred million dollars each (adjust that figure for current exchange values as you will) and asking them to save Japan--or any nation--was necessarily a good idea though; I'm inclined to agree with you for the most part (obviously I am the exception to that rule, and should be given all the money and all the power in the world--it'll be really cool I swear).

However, I can still imagine a Mr. Outside figure coming to the conclusion that this was a suitable course of action. Once again, the events of recent years have demonstrated that those who handle lots of money have a tendency to invest in... high-risk propositions.

Quote:
Er, about Juiz, how did that even work?


It does require some suspension of disbelief. Whether or not one is comfortable with the amount of lifting to be done is another one of those things that's subjective. The assumption I used is that publicly-funded supercomputing projects had advanced somewhat faster in Eden's world than they seem to have in our own.

Quote:
Interesting interpretation, as much as I disagree with it.


Conveniently, to elaborate I can simply provide my answer to your last question.

The larger Japanese malady that I think Eden addresses is that the nation seems to have, in the last decade or so, fallen into a pattern of stagnation and decline (I imagine a lot of academics would argue the trend originated back in '97 during the Asian Financial Crisis, but I'm not even going to try penetrate that subject). The population is aging, its economic engine is faltering in the face of unstoppable Chinese ascendancy, and the government has failed to provide solutions. Japanese society remains very homogeneous and communally-oriented though, which interferes with the ability of individuals to step up and enact change.

There's a sense of impotency about the whole situation, hence my statement. Kamiyama just wanted a metaphor that he could play gags off of.
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ChocoBar9



Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:25 am Reply with quote
Why do I get the feeling that the majority of the people who are giving praised to it's concept alone because it's "different" from the standard flair we get every year despite the fact that the execution is horrible? Which is why Zac and Carl are giving so much praise without giving any thought or merit to it's writing and yet bash any show with a "moe" or "sexual" concept as trash without even getting pass the first episode.
The reason Eden of the East was shit was because first and foremost the plot got heavily sidetracked. The show only had 11 episodes, and for most of those 11 episodes, too much time was spent meandering about. Whether it was Takizawa or Saki, or the NEETs meandering about or just the episode being one big meander. The show wasted too many episodes on the the whole johnny hunter and only started to go where it wanted to go in about the last 3 episodes.

Both Takizawa and Saki were dull leads. Takizawa came off as too perfect, and Saki just came off as dull. The story being about NEETs and Japan's current society lacking drive and ability to change their lot (it can't be helped) didn't bother me, what bothered me is that too much time was wasted showing the NEETs and having them talk about how the Suits and adults look down on them and not enough time weaving it into the main plot.

This meandering lead to the last couple of episodes being spent with massive amounts of information dump. And when you finally think that the film will actually go somewhere, it makes the same mistake the series made--beating around the bush.

To sum it up, Eden of the East suffers from loose writing
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vashfanatic



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:41 am Reply with quote
immortalrite wrote:
Quote:
Line that up next to the frigid soldier types in Stand Alone Complex and you'll see just how far Kamiyama has come.
Now granted I have not seen the whole series, but labeling Eden of the East's warm, adorable characters as a directorial improvement over SAC's "frigid soldier types" seems like comparing apples and oranges, i.e. judging an element of the show outside of its natural context; one character motif works well for one title while an entirely separate one works well for another title, and I see no reason, provided that both titles are an overall success, to consider one qualitatively "superior" to the other.

Carl actively dislikes the GitS:SAC series. Nevermind that having warm fuzzy characters in a series about cops would be, well, insane, or that there are numerous episodes throughout that get me to the point of tears from poignant moments of restrained emotion. He considers it "cold."

Oh, and as I read the posts, this is one of those series so highly praised that those who hate it will get really passionate about it. Sort of like how I feel obliged to point out that Koi Kaze is about statutory rape every time it gets mentioned. I forgive you all because I am guilty of it myself.
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Big Hed



Joined: 04 May 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:25 pm Reply with quote
Maybe we should crosslink with the Toradora! Part 2 thread, and we can all form a big forgiveness circle. Laughing
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Greg Aubry



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:41 pm Reply with quote
Spot-on review of the series. I have just two minor disagreements.

I thought Kawai's score was a perfect fit for the series. It's breezy and light where it needs to be, and foreboding in just the right places. If anything, it does a great service to the storytelling by staying out of the way and pumping up only when it needs to.

I think Carl's touchback to Kamiyama's earlier works does them a mild disservice; Stand Alone Complex especially. The warmth of the character interactions in GITS are subtle, but quietly form the backbone of the viewer's investment in the show. If anything, Eden shows Kamiyama playing the emotions of the characters more broadly and with less subtlety. That's perfectly apropos, given the youth of Eden's cast. Youth is not about subtlety; it's brazen, foolish, and romantic.

This is without a doubt, my favorite show in years.
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Greg Aubry



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:45 pm Reply with quote
vashfanatic wrote:
Carl actively dislikes the GitS:SAC series. Nevermind that having warm fuzzy characters in a series about cops would be, well, insane, or that there are numerous episodes throughout that get me to the point of tears from poignant moments of restrained emotion. He considers it "cold."

Agreed. Writing off SAC's superb characterization as "cold" just doesn't wash. The second season episode with Batou in that church with the blind girl... MAN. Kamiyama's gift for character writing is pretty obvious in everything he does. For my money, Moribito is the balanced middle ground between the subtlety of SAC and the broad character strokes of Eden. Good stuff all around.
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Big Hed



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:13 pm Reply with quote
Greg Aubry wrote:
For my money, Moribito is the balanced middle ground between the subtlety of SAC and the broad character strokes of Eden. Good stuff all around.


I'd say that's about accurate. Since everybody else is doing it, I guess I'll take the opportunity to respectfully disagree with Carl re. characterization in SAC as well. It's been awhile. Razz
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ChocoBar9



Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:39 pm Reply with quote
So basically Everything: A

Best series with best execution with best characters and best twists and best entertainment. Rolling Eyes

Yeah that's a good review
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Shenl742



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:51 pm Reply with quote
ChocoBar9 wrote:
So basically Everything: A

Best series with best execution with best characters and best twists and best entertainment. Rolling Eyes

Yeah that's a good review


You know buddy, it's perfectly fine to think something is overrated, but to more or less say that a person is wrong for giving something high praise is in pretty poor taste if you ask me.

If anything, Carl's review is much better written then the one you made for you first post...in my honest opinion
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:54 pm Reply with quote
ChocoBar9 wrote:
So basically Everything: A

Best series with best execution with best characters and best twists and best entertainment. Rolling Eyes

Yeah that's a good review


He really enjoyed it and explained why.

You seem to think that things are being graded on a scale of objective perfection.

Eden of the East is not a perfect series. I'd give it all As, too, because I thought everything was really well-executed. All the speedbumps you mentioned are true, but I think the narrative ties up well enough in the last couple episodes (even with the infodumps) and makes its points about the power of crowdsourcing and the value of a mob working together for the greater good pretty well. Yeah, it stumbles along the way, could've been tighter, had a few dry episodes. Name a show that doesn't.

If in your internal scale "A" means "absolutely flawless", that's great. Obviously that's not how Carl is operating.

Also if you're going to talk about how "you guys aren't backing up your points" and then give amazing examples of mindblowing insight like this:

Quote:

Both Takizawa and Saki were dull leads. Takizawa came off as too perfect, and Saki just came off as dull.


you may want to practice what you preach. Oh, and this:

Quote:

Which is why Zac and Carl are giving so much praise without giving any thought or merit to it's writing and yet bash any show with a "moe" or "sexual" concept as trash without even getting pass the first episode.


Thanks for the rage-based hyperbolic bias. You are clearly a fair judge!
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