Forum - View topicNEWS: Viz Edits
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Inagawa
Posts: 1 |
|
|||||||||||
|
The backlash and whining against Viz on this thread is simply laughable. I do wish people would actually do research on the true definition of censorship and actually *read* the article before posting.
The author of I's made alterations to his own product -of his own free will-, and people cry censorship! Viz never told him to make the changes, and knowing the company, they would have published it without the stars, but the author said he wanted the nipples covered, so they did it. It's not censorship if it's not forced on you. The author made an editorial decision regarding his property. We have no right to tell him what to do or not to. Freedom of Speech also means having the freedom to *not* say or do whatever you please. It also means taking responsibility for your action and words. If the author felt that it was innaproariate for bare breasts to be shown in a book released in our market, then guess what? He was excercising his Free Speech right! Censorship laws are actually more restrictive in Japan than they are here. It's just what is considered acceptable in Japan is different than what is accepted here. Nipples are fine, but pubic hair or any detail of the pubic region is prohibited. Also, if one would notice, other manga by Viz (like Red River) are released without covered nipples. Newsflash: We are NOT in Japan! Therefore expecting the American publishing market to immediately adhere to the Japanese publishing market is wrong and actually an act of censorship. Censorship is NOT denying someone of their right to see nipples. Censorship IS denying a person the right to make edits or decisions about the distibution of their work. Viz adding a star per request of the author is not an act of censorship. The readers demanding the star be removed 'because they say so' is an act of censorship. So please, stop with the self-righteous grandstanding. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11296 Location: Frisco, TX |
|
|||||||||||
I agree. After reading that follow-up answer from Viz, it seemed like a pretty lame response. I find it especially confusing when they said:
I don't read manga very much (if at all, aside for the one volume I have in my possession), but that shrinkwrap idea sounds like a pretty good way to continue the circulation of manga not intended for younger audiences or whatever. They (Viz) say the edits are to "fit the criteria of audiences in the U.S.," though by the looks of things it seems they don't know their audience as well as they think, what with all the angry posting. And on a sidenote, do any of you think that whole Tenjou Tenge debacle by CMX is having a shockwave effect now? I'm not too enlightened on how manga distribution works around the U.S., but after hearing these two announcements, I'm kind of wondering what the industry is going to be like when I eventually get into the groove of collecting them. Aside from most of the good things I hear about how other titles and franchises are handled, what if it changes for the worse by then  ?
Guess I should start soon  ...
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
darkhunter
 Posts: 2992 Location: Los Angelas |
|
|||||||||||
|
Jeez, they're just nipple cover by star. This edit doesn't even compare to the TenTen one. The TenTen edit was disappointing, this is nothing.
Shut the fudge up and take it like a man. 
**see, even my cuss word got edited, but I can live with it** |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
shattercone
 Posts: 44 Location: Tempe, Arizona |
|
|||||||||||
|
This may be totally asinine, but if Viz edits their manga for whatever reason, shouldn't they be selling it at a reduced price? Or indicate "Editted Content" on the front? Would you ever buy the "editted for television" version of a movie at full price? The abridged version of your favorite novel? The Mona Lisa with eyebrows drawn in? Not a chance in flaming Tartarus!!!
I mean I'm a purist -- and clearly everyone else on this board is as well. I don't want something unless it's in it's original, perfect condition (well, translated anyways), presented as closely to the author's original version as possible. The manga market is so saturated these days, why is Viz so worried a particular title will drop their sales? Heck, why license a title, if you think you're going to lose money on it anyways? They're basically selling us inferior merchandise for full price. That alone warrants a discount... If you want us to buy your merchandise Viz, give us the real deal, and don't worry about the Soccer Moms of America breathing down your back, just slap a Teen+ rating on your stuff and tell 'em to be more involved in their children's selection of manga. It's your 1st amendment right (just ask Mr. Larry Flynt). And to anyone who has a problem with female anatomy being shown in a comic book -- hahahahahaha, yeah, that's never happened before..  Get over it. Your kids can get far worse stuff by just logging onto the internet.
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Roronoa Zoro
Posts: 1 Location: United States |
|
|||||||||||
|
Well, I use to buy almost all of Viz's titles, but once they started editing my favorite title, One Piece, to go along with the butchered 4kids version, I stopped purchasing their products, took back all volumes I had to Borders, got a load of cash on return gift cards, and now I've bought all (current) 36 One Piece volumes from Japan. I translate them myself, and have no desire to partake in the purchase of anything Viz ever again, because, as you may notice, when VIZ bring a title to America (other than suffering edits and poor westernizations)
VIZ cut out half an inch of every graphic novel they make. It's true!! I compared my Japanese One Piece with my VIZ version, and around half an inch is missing on the bottom of every page. This is pointless. Stupid Viz, grow up. Why do they call I'S "Shonen Jump Advanced" and "16+" when it is still edited. And HunterxHunter will be edited for violence in the future, I guarantee it. Hopefully by taking back my VIZ novels to Borders, I'll hurt VIZ financially. I've got a few more I need to take back. Ha ha.... One more thing, whether or not an author approves of a change made to an English version or not does not deny the fact that that is not what the author originally intended. Learn that Viz. Fans want what the author drew/wrote. Why you've butchered One Piece, I don't know. I'll just continue to buy the tankobans, they're better quality anyway. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11296 Location: Frisco, TX |
|
|||||||||||
Is that it? They just covered up some nipples? Well if that's all, I guess it's not so bad then. I don't really care since I don't read I"s or Yami no Matsuei, but I was really anticipating TenTen until I heard about the edits. I guess I'm just a little paranoid that the TenTen thing will act as a catalyst for other companies to start doing more edits or what have you and that it would start some kind of trend that might be bad for business (in terms of content). |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
darkhunter
Posts: 2992 Location: Los Angelas |
|
|||||||||||
Yeah maybe I'm kind of downplaying I's edit because I'm not getting it. I heard there was other little stuff but it's mainly the nipple. Now if they edited a title I really want, then hell yeah i'm going to be furious. Also I heard that later volume of japanese I's manga had star on them. The spokesperson also noted that in volume 3 of the Japanese version of the series, the creator used stars over the woman's breasts. As Mention here
Arnt' you blowing things out of proportion. I don't recall thier editor's choice line having any edits as I'm enjoying Vagabond and Blue Spring. If you can translate the manga yourself, than why don't you just translate the name Zolo to Zoro with a white-out. I mean sheesh, the japanese pronounce it Zolo, since you're so anal about japanese. Last edited by darkhunter on Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Kal
 Posts: 130 Location: USA |
|
|||||||||||
|
Well, at least I"s only had the minor censorship of nipples (no matter how ridiculous it is) in comparisong to Yami no Matsuei's complete removal of Fujisawa.
It is clear that YnM has strong homosexual undertones, and those that aren't comfortable with it (more precisely: the parents) shouldn't have bought it (for their children) in the first place. Although the changes in that scene doesn't effect the plot in any major way, by removing a character, they've completely changed the mood of it. Nothing about that scene was unexpected, so why did it have to be edited? It's not even that graphic in the first place. Hell, the last few scenes in FAKE were more graphic than Fujisawa's head in a guy's crotch. I refuse to believe that Yoko Matsushita gave her approval to something like this. Besides, if such a little scene as this was edited out, why didn't they just censor the scene where Hisoka was being raped then? There are far more sexual scenes in later volumes -- which clearly just asks for Viz to take the initiative to butcher it up with their inconsistent censorship. So if Viz is that uncomfortable with releasing mangas with sexual content, then don't license titles that are clearly aimed towards a more mature audience. Or if they do, they should've just shrinkwrapped the thing with all its contents in its original state (minus the translation). To those that are worried about not being able to purchase shrinkwrapped manga, I say don't sweat about it. I don't believe that teens/kids that are considered underage wouldn't be able to purchase it. I'm 16 (easily passed for 14), and even I've been able to purchase items that were shrinkwrapped and marked with an "For ages 18+" from Borders. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not advocating elementary kids to be exposed to sexual content at such a young age, but if I was allowed to watch Titanic with that oh so 'steamy backseat scene' and the nuded Rose at the age of 8 (when it was clearly marked PG-13), I think most kids would be able to handle it -- given that they are mature enough. Besides, what is seen on public TV is just as 'bad'.
Furthermore, I completely agree with shattercone on the point that kids could find far worse sexual content by searching through the web. All you have to do is type 'sex' in Google, and wallah! Porn in all it's 'S&M glory' is right before your very eyes. Nice lame excuse Viz gave -- "minimal edits", right.. define 'minimal' for me again 
PS. Kinda ridiculous, but I just noticed that they took out some SFX around Fujisawa's hand... as well as changed the direction of the speech bubble from the lap to off screen..
http://www.angelfire.com/ma/KJO/images/dissapearinghead.jpg Last edited by Kal on Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:42 pm; edited 4 times in total |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
|
|||||||||||
This isn't about being self-righteous... it's about a company making an inappropriate decision for us, instead of letting us decide for ourselves. It's insulting and we have every right to complain. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
darkhunter
Posts: 2992 Location: Los Angelas |
|
|||||||||||
|
I have a feeling that the majority of people who would have brought I's edit or not new customer that have never seen the japanese version themselves. People are buying new manga every day so not everyone who's buying manga is a fan of it. So there might be 1000 hardcore fans online, the popular manga can sell upward to 20,000 copies.
Shrink wrapping manga is a good idea from a fan stand point but from a business stand point, shrink wrapping = new customer can't preview the book, thus they are not likely to buy it when they can flip through another manga. If I saw a manga at a bookstore or comic that I know nothing about and I can't flip through the page to see the art, I would pass on it. And I guess that's why Battle Royale is selling really well when they don't shrink wrap it at walden books and the kids can flip through it if they want. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for shrink wrapping if it mean getting the title unedited and keep away from kids, but maybe that's not how most companies see it. Or companies just want to broaden thier audience. This is a business after all. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
|
|||||||||||
Just because it's "not as bad as..." doesn't prevent this from being an eyesore - my concern is also with later volumes of I''s... where things get heavier in sexual content/nudity. This was also a title I was really anticipating - more then Ten Ten, no less, so I'm even more put off by the treatment it's getting. Last edited by Godaistudios on Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Kal
Posts: 130 Location: USA |
|
|||||||||||
Hm, I understand your point of view, but isn't that what the back cover is for? To get a general idea of what the manga is all about? That does about as much as quickly flipping through the book to see if it's interesting to you or not. Besides, there is always the option of returning the manga if you don't like it. I believe shrinkwrapped books are still considered opened items (ie. not like DVDs or CDs), so it could easily be returned for store credit and the manga will just be shrinkwrapped again. No big deal, from my point of view anyhow. Last edited by Kal on Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
darkhunter
Posts: 2992 Location: Los Angelas |
|
|||||||||||
I's is not a title I care about. Like I said, if it was a title I care about I would be more vocal about it. I do wonder how big the stars are. If they're about the same size as the nipple, than just shade it in and make it into a circle. LOL or if some geek really need to see breast, he can scan the image, digitially remove the star and insert titties. Then print out the "breast" part, cut it and paste it over the edited breast.
But really, the edit never should have happen in the first place so people don't need to go through all that trouble.
Manga are not like regular text book. The majority of people I see browsing the book store will at least flip the page a few time to get a look at the art. The back of the book is usesful and give you an idea of what the book is about, but I bet people are more attractive to the art and when they're buying a new book they want to see how the art is like. Manga is about the art. Return is always an option, but nobody like driving back to a store and return something. heck,why not just sit there and read the manga if you have so much time on your hand...that's more efficient 
Last edited by darkhunter on Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
|
|||||||||||
|
Since it's a title I do care about, you can see why I'm pissed.
Ten Ten was something I was also looking forward to, but this one even more so... so after Ten Ten got released that way, this just added insult to injury, so I'm pretty angry about it. As far as the stars added, check this link. http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/socpol/images/Is_page_65.jpg If this wound up being the only censorship in the artwork to be done in the I''s manga, I could live with it - it would still bother me, but then I'd still be willing to buy it. Since that doesn't appear to be the case - Viz can piss off. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Kal
Posts: 130 Location: USA |
|
|||||||||||
Lol, that's somewhat selfish. "Stop complaining and take it like a man" you say, but like you've stated about, it's because you don't care about it. I doubt you'd take your advice the same way if the same thing happened to TenTen. Let the people complain XP
Well, I never said that manga was like a regular text book. Besides, isn't the front art cover enough? For me, that's what grabs my attention first, then the summary from the back. I don't care about driving back and forth between bookstores anyhow, since it always gives me another chance to browse through and see what is newly in stock. And if you couldn't tell, I rather like purchasing my manga anyhow 
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group