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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1105

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:04 pm Reply with quote
Great to see that you loved GaoGaiGar through and through. I forgot to say it to you at MangaNext this past weekend, but it's great to see more positive talk about GaoGaiGar. The latest I ever heard from John Sirabella about licensing GaoGaiGar FINAL, which is even more insane and emotionally touching at the end, was nothing but hesitation... Except when my friend told him straight to his face "I'd pay anything to own GaoGaiGar FINAL." John's immediate response? "Can we have that on tape?"

I can tell that John probably wouldn't mind, and would probably even love, doing FINAL, but I guess the whole dropping of the dub half-way through, the potential TV deal with Disney that went nowhere, and having to release the second half in a collection after a year-long delay probably just made him really hesitant to do more. Even though the show seems to have broken even by now and maybe even made a small profit, it probably still just seems a bit too risky for MB to do... Still, here's hoping.
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brand



Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:15 pm Reply with quote
I enjoyed Occult Academy but it could have either done with being shorter cutting out some of the episodes you talked about (maybe keep a little bonding character building with the girls). It would make it a much tighter over all piece with a lot of action and wouldn't drag on so much.

The other way to have gone would have been a full 26 episodes, doing short arcs for all the characters. I agree JK and Smile could have used some of their own character building. I was also expecting more wacky high-jinks at the school. Had things been built out a bit more all the Bunmei eating awkwardly wouldn't have been so bad (as long as it wasn't also expanded). Also some more building up to the reveal about spoiler[Mikaze being an evil witch with better hints to that] would have been nice.

Overall, I'd give this show a serious 7, it was very entertaining, and I really like the art and animation in it, but the story suffered from some serious problems dragging it down.
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:32 pm Reply with quote
To buy:
Corpse Princess

Netflix Queue:
Corpse Princess

Damn. I had a feeling this series would close with a whimper. In fact, it seems many series which start off good fizzle midway and crash at the end.

I would think the Japanese would have figured this out by now, but I suppose if the ending has 3 pantsu shots in it, fans consider it worth their purchase.

I mean, how else does one explain this phenomenon?

Never mind.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 6290
Location: IL

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:34 pm Reply with quote
I'm not surprised in the least that the columnist couldn't grasp that the purpose of the "little girl's ghost" is for Maya to reflect on her own relationship with her father, as well as spoiler[come to the realization that Waldstein Academy was built especially for her].

Anyway, I hated the ending. It was stupid.

You may see it like a donut, but I see it as a donut-hole, where the last 2-3 episodes were a complete and utter failure.
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Emerje



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 6249
Location: Maine

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:37 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Episodes nine and ten are the worst. Why are our heroes wasting time on a little girl's ghost when the end of the world is at stake?! The ghost child, who is obsessed with Christmas, seems like a reference to Rental Magica, which had a whole cheesy Christmas episode involving ghost orphans. Are ghost children on Christmas an anime trope now? I thought it was a parody of some sort in Rental Magica, and I may have missed the joke in Occult Academy.


That's interesting, a lot of people seem to consider these two some of the best episodes of the series (including Carl. Saying they're the worst episodes just means you missed the whole point. These episodes are what got Maya back on track and got her to actually care again about finding her father's killers. They build up her background by relating it to a little girl who felt the same way she did and died as a result. They were very important to the series and shouldn't be dismissed as filler just because you didn't like the way a similar story was used in an unrelated series.

Emerje
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CareyGrant



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Posts: 451

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:55 pm Reply with quote
You nailed it (and I wish Gainax had), Corpse Princess pulled the Ol' Anime WTF ending, where nothing is resolved. This grievous act is made all the worse when they piss away the spoiler[last ep. on a freakin' flashback of a dead character from the start of show rather than continue the final battle cliffhanger from the previous ep. ] GAINAX! WHERE THE HELL IS MY ENDING?!

I'd love a job as a writer in Japan. Apparently nothing you write has to make sense or follow any sort of narrative structure. What a sweet gig.

And yeah, the repetition; I griped about that last time as well. How many times can we say "Shikabane Hime" in the same breath, sentence or scene?

Occult Academy. Don't get me started. Like you I loved the first ep. It gave me hope... which the rest of the show promptly ground into the dirt under its boot heel. The ending was an improvement but the rest was a meandering mess and criminal waste of potential.

Like you, I loved the goth kid. He was hilarious and I would have liked to see more done with his character, but instead we got Cooking with Booby McGee and The Spineless Whipping Boy with no brain.

I've read better fan fiction than the level of writing I'm seeing from Anime lately.
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Blood-
It...it's not like I post for you or anything!It...it's not like I post for you or anything!


Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 14987
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:27 pm Reply with quote
I disagree with the notion that Corpse Princess was unresolved at the end. As I've said in a different thread, to me, the central dramatic question posed by the show (in the second season) is, "Will Makina accept Kagami as her Contracted Monk?" spoiler[That question is answered. Working together as a team for the first time is there really any doubt that they won't mop up the remnants of the Seven Stars?] Sure, the more conventional thing to do would to have shown that in its entirety, but I didn't miss it.

We found out that spoiler[the "kill 108 Shikabane and go to Heaven" is bullshit,] so that's resolved, as well.

I can understand people not digging where the series ended, but I think it's wrong to suggest that everything was simply left hanging.
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Otaking09



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 614

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:30 pm Reply with quote
That Pikachu comment not only made me laugh in hysterics(for a about a couple seconds), but it sealed the deal on my "on the fence of watching Shikabane or not" predicament.

As for lazy animation, look no further than Birdy the Mighty: Decode 2.
I swear one episode had such.... SH!TTY rendering I thought I would just skip through it! spoiler[And I'm not just talking about for a few minutes, but an ENTIRE scene!!!] Ughhh.....
Sorry Gainax, you may have made me a huge fan of the Eva franchise with Eva 2.0, but I haven't become stupid in the process.

As for Gaogaigar... y'know, I was on the fence on that one too, but my feet were always hanging on the side of watching it.
I just... didn't exactly know what to land my feet on...
Erin's descriptions of where it'll go kinda makes me anxious now. So... I'm ready.

And yes, Occult Academy was almost a 6 but saved itself(barely) with that twist.
I really thought Occult Academy was gonna be the best out of the Anime no Chikara, but... in a way, I'm happy it's So-Ra-No-Wo-To.

Great week Erin! Best column in a while.
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 598

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:35 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
I'm not surprised in the least that the columnist couldn't grasp that the purpose of the "little girl's ghost" is for Maya to reflect on her own relationship with her father, as well as spoiler[come to the realization that Waldstein Academy was built especially for her].

I understood that, and I know the character building and reveal were necessary, but they could've done it in a way that involved the plot more directly. When the ghost orphan wasn't Nostradamus' key they should've just moved on with the search. Wasting two whole episodes on that one little story was infuriating. It felt like a bad episode of Scooby Doo.

CareyGrant wrote:
Occult Academy. Don't get me started. Like you I loved the first ep. It gave me hope... which the rest of the show promptly ground into the dirt under its boot heel.

Haha, it's like Maya is stomping in the viewer's faces with her high heeled shoes.
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garfield15



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1361

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:40 pm Reply with quote
Otaking09 wrote:

As for lazy animation, look no further than Birdy the Mighty: Decode 2.
I swear one episode had such.... SH!TTY rendering I thought I would just skip through it! spoiler[And I'm not just talking about for a few minutes, but an ENTIRE scene!!!] Ughhh.....
Sorry Gainax, you may have made me a huge fan of the Eva franchise with Eva 2.0, but I haven't become stupid in the process.

What does Gainax have to do with Birdy?

I'm glad to see the praise for GGG's dub as I quite enjoyed it a lot as well. And yeah, I had the same reaction when I saw the cover and thought "isn't this kind of a major spoiler?"
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the Rancorous



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 2248
Location: Hunting the Dragon in Gransys

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:49 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
I disagree with the notion that Corpse Princess was unresolved at the end. As I've said in a different thread, to me, the central dramatic question posed by the show (in the second season) is, "Will Makina accept Kagami as her Contracted Monk?" spoiler[That question is answered. Working together as a team for the first time is there really any doubt that they won't mop up the remnants of the Seven Stars?] Sure, the more conventional thing to do would to have shown that in its entirety, but I didn't miss it.

Like I said before, I didn't mind the Claymore-esque ending it seemed to be building, what irked me was that instead of just leaving things as spoiler['main-threat thwarted, bad-guys defeated yet not dead' thing while Ore and Makina go rogue,] they decide to fake us out. They make us think that we're going to get to see spoiler[Makina finish off the ones who killed her, say "to be continued" and instead of continuing it they give a back-story of two characters who've been dead for most of the show.] That is a poor handling of storytelling. If they weren't going to show us an actual showdown, then they should have just cut that last minute out of ep 25.

Quote:
We found out that spoiler[the "kill 108 Shikabane and go to Heaven" is bullshit,] so that's resolved, as well.

Completely disagree. It came out in the open pretty late, was a very interesting twist, and yet it was just sort of left to flutter in the breeze. Unless I'm mistaken (which I'm fairly sure I'm not), spoiler[by the end of ep 25, with exception of the Monks who knew from the start, only Makina and Ore know of this fate while none of the other Shikabane Hime and contracted Monks know. Also, it was still in effect after the end, nothing was done about it.] It was a new conflict introduced into the story that had no resolution at all.

erinfinnegan wrote:
Occult Academy
Wasting two whole episodes on that one little story was infuriating. It felt like a bad episode of Scooby Doo.

I actually have to agree. I thought those two episodes were in fact, the most boring and unnecessary episodes of the series. It was an entirely predictable and quite cliched sob-story where I knew exactly how every aspect of it would play out before I saw it. People called it 'touching' or whatever, but I was far less awed. I was more like GET ON WITH IT!!!
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Hardgear



Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 398
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:00 pm Reply with quote
CareyGrant wrote:
This grievous act is made all the worse when they piss away the spoiler[last ep. on a freakin' flashback of a dead character from the start of show rather than continue the final battle cliffhanger from the previous ep. ] GAINAX! WHERE THE HELL IS MY ENDING?!


Hell yeah, that was my big complaint in the previous thread. It's bad enough that they just kinda leave it off, but then they go and pull that.

I liked the series as a whole, but part 1 was WAY better than part 2 in general, not just cause of the ending. It's almost like the team got 80% of their good ideas out of the way in the first half, and had to manage with what was left. That or a whole different team took over for part 2, it seemed that way sometimes. The difference in quality between parts 1 and 2 is so drastic it aint even funny (I marathoned the whole series in 1 go, so I felt the full force of the drop in quality).

But, smack talk out of the way, the episodes involving buildup to (and resolution of) the apocalypse that Erin mentioned were quite awesome. Kinda like how the buildup to and beginning rounds of the Pieta fight in Claymore set the bar so high that ultimately the end fell flat on its face...
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Myaow



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 1056

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:30 pm Reply with quote
I totally agree with the ugginess of Shikabane Hime's second half- I stopped watching around episode 16 because the writing had just gotten so bad.

Oh, but I kind of remember that the show had a weird production setup: Gainax was in charge of the first 13 episodes ("Aka"), and some other studio (Feel?) was in charge of the last 13 ("Kuro"). So for people drawing Evangelion/Kare Kano/Mahoromatic/Hanamaru Kindergarten comparisons with the ending, that might actually be a coincidence? I might be wrong- correct me if I am.
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CareyGrant



Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Posts: 451

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:39 pm Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:
Megiddo wrote:
I'm not surprised in the least that the columnist couldn't grasp that the purpose of the "little girl's ghost" is for Maya to reflect on her own relationship with her father, as well as spoiler[come to the realization that Waldstein Academy was built especially for her].

I understood that, and I know the character building and reveal were necessary, but they could've done it in a way that involved the plot more directly. When the ghost orphan wasn't Nostradamus' key they should've just moved on with the search. Wasting two whole episodes on that one little story was infuriating. It felt like a bad episode of Scooby Doo.


In all my time as an anime fan nothing infuriates me more than shoddy plotting, weak narrative that lacks focus and cohesion, and paint-by-numbers, lazy writing. In grand anime tradition I'm surprised the shows producers and writers didn't waste two other episodes on a pointless hot springs or summer vacation beach trip.

It's also kind of infuriating that they think such bad storytelling is ok. If my name were attached to this, I'd wanna make sure it was the best it could be, not pad it out with filler or churn out something ham-handedly.

Anime fans in Japan need to start demanding better writing and storytelling.

erinfinnegan wrote:
CareyGrant wrote:
Occult Academy. Don't get me started. Like you I loved the first ep. It gave me hope... which the rest of the show promptly ground into the dirt under its boot heel.

Haha, it's like Maya is stomping in the viewer's faces with her high heeled shoes.


Yesssss Mistress! *whimpers* May I please have another!
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FaytLein
Collector ExtraordinaireCollector Extraordinaire


Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 1260
Location: Williamsburg, VA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:59 pm Reply with quote
GaoGaiGar is a rock solid show through and through. Sure the beginning is bogged down in monster of the week shenanigans, but once the Primevals show up, things get progressively better and better. I mean, little 40 meter robots getting into fistfights with MOONS? Sign me up!
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