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Edo wrote:

Because, as I have mentioned before, downloading is NOT currently illegal in most of the world!

[sarcasim]Holy crap, dude! You really need to let the RIAA know about this pronto! Maybe they'll give all that money back to the people they fined for downloading music when they realize what a horrible mistake they made![/sarcasim]

Emerje

Dowloading files is legal, provided that the copyright owners permit it, nothing more, nothing less.

THis thread should of been made first. Wink

Last edited by biliano on Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

Meson wrote:

Dowloading files is legal, provided that the copyright owners permit it, nothing more, nothing less.

Exactly. As long as the owners allow it, it's OK. If they don't, then that's where we have problems. Most often than not, copyright owners do not allow people to download their material, especially from bittorent websites.

The point of this thread is clear: ANN does NOT allow the discussion of download requests or how/where to view them. It's stated in Teh Rules, and I provided the statement that tempest posted a while ago on this very topic.

I don't like acting as the demon's lawyer, but I don't find any other good option.

Edo is right with what he says. In my own country (Spain), for example, that takes place. Since the first of october of 2004, it is legal to download intelectual property while you don't take any profit out of it. Of course, it is still illegal to upload, but if there is no proof that you've sold what you have downloaded, the Police won't come to your house to arrest you.

That, of course, for Spanish material. I don't know very well the situation with other material (like US artists). I should ask, but it could be that this rule also applies for this kind of media.

Don't get me wrong, I also think this is incorrect and shouldn't be this way. But I am not a politician. Just a normal user, one out of nearly 40,000,000.

Actually, downloading isn't legal. It's just NOT illegal. As others have pointed out, it's the distribution of files and the uploading that's illegal.

HOWEVER, despite the il/legalities of everything, asking for downloads at ANN is [i]still[/it] forbidden, and will continue to be so until the ends of time. Anime smile

The end.

"Google do you Use it"

Last edited by Edo on Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:56 pm; edited 3 times in total

Last edited by Edo on Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

Edo wrote:

Like downloading is illegal. Educate yourself first, even if I am wrong in saying it is legal, it still is NOT illegal. Educate yourself first! Whose your source? The RIAA?[\I use tags like an idiot]

Getting a bit frustrated? Actually, Bamboo and I have been discussing this during the day, and we've come up with some interesting conclusions.(I even got a marshmallow chicken out of it) Most countries, Spain and France included, have copyright laws that specifically state that possessing a copyrighted work without permission is illegal. (It should be noted that the law applies even if we are only talking about part of a file) You can make the argument that the actual act of downloading is not illegal, EXCEPT it's impossible to download and not concurrently come into possession of the file wihout permission. Ergo, you cannot download copyrighted works without permission without breaking the law. In the interest of fairness, it should be noted that SOME countries, such as France, do have certain exceptions to the laws which enables people to download in CERTAIN situations legally. However, these people can still be sued/charged/etc. and it must be decided by a court that said downloading was, in fact, legal. Edo pointed out to me a recent court decision in France which, on the surface would almost appear to make downloading moves there legal. But, that's not the case. Another, very similar ruling went the opposite direction, and there are, in fact, several similar cases still pending. While some of them may be found innocent of wrong doing, others will not. And the truth of the matter is, with the fluidity of the laws, since it's up to a judge to determine if the act of downloading falls under the scope of the exception in the law, you can almost never be sure you are or are not breaking the law until someone charges you, you go to court, and are acquited or not.

It should also be noted that, to my knowledge (and I invite anyone who has information to the contrary to PM me), no country that we would be talking about here (France, Spain, Canada, etc.) has exceptions to their copyrights laws, without first having a tax on things such as blank media, to help recoup the money lost to companies via downloading.

As for the site you are referring to, I assume you mean LokiTorrent You can name it, because it's no longer a torrent site. Wink

Since I'm fairly certain that most people's minds on either side of this debate won't be changed, and since the purpose of this thread was merely supposed to be an announcement, I suggest this thread would be better off locked.

Edo wrote:

[I use tags like an idiot]

[sarcasm]Brilliant![/sarcasm]

Emerje

biliano wrote:

I don't know why you think that downloading copyrighted works is legal in Canada (as you claim)...

First off, it is in fact legal to download licensed music files (not sure about other formats) because there is a levy on all recordable media sold in Canada that is collected by the Canadian Private Copying Collective (CPCC). This levy in turn means that Canadians have certain rights as to what they can do with their media including copying it for personal use, and making copies of other peoples music CDs (in short I could loan a Canadian friend one of my CDs for them to copy and it would be legal). Also, it is legal for Canadians to download a musical work from the internet for personal use, however, they cannot upload works to the internet.

Canadian copyright levy

Quote:

...but I'm a citizen of the USA, and in the USA, it IS, and ALWAYS WILL BE, illegal to download copyrighted works.

Actually, no, it is in fact quite legal to download copyrighted works in most cases. Case and point - the Anime News Network homepage is a copyrighted work, but you downloaded a copy of it when you were browsing the site. What you need to do is take into account fair use of copyrighted works.

Fair use basically means that you use said work with in the permissions given by the owner of the work (such as downloading a website into your browsers cache for viewing). Also, fair use has an extremely gray area (gray as in undefined, it not very explicit with the advent of digital media) that it is unclear as to how things work if you own one from of the media (DVD, CD, ect) and download a copy of it in a different format from another source. Technically, I am free to convert my entire CD collection into MP3 format for my personal use, so you would think that you should be able to download what you already own - like I said gray area.

radicaledward wrote:

Technically, I am free to convert my entire CD collection into MP3 format for my personal use, so you would think that you should be able to download what you already own - like I said gray area.

It's not actually gray. You can convert your cd collection to MP3, but you cannot download an MP3 of something you already have on MP3. It's a common misconception that most people have. When you buy a cd, you are also, in effect, buying a license which allows you to listen to the music, make MP3 backups, etc. (although it should be noted that when it comes to CDs, defeating copyright protection and encryption is illegal) The license only applies to that CD though, you are not granted the right to download an MP3 copy of what you have on CD.

And actually, Fair Use does not involve using rights given by authors. Fair Use involves using or reproducing portions of a copyrighted work WITHOUT permission, in certain situations.

Kazuki-san wrote:

It's not actually gray. You can convert your cd collection to MP3, but you cannot download an MP3 of something you already have on MP3. It's a common misconception that most people have. When you buy a cd, you are also, in effect, buying a license which allows you to listen to the music, make MP3 backups, etc. (although it should be noted that when it comes to CDs, defeating copyright protection and encryption is illegal) The license only applies to that CD though, you are not granted the right to download an MP3 copy of what you have on CD.

Eh, yes and no. I did some reading around, and this seems to be the case - yes you can have MP3 copies of the music you have under fair use laws (for both archival purposes and personal use purposes), however, the means through which you get those copies where things get tough. In short, you either have to make the copies yourself (such as a CD ripper), or you receive them through an approved distributor. If you download them from a P2P network you would be technically guilty of copyright infringement due to getting them from someone that is also committing copyright infringement if they didn’t have the permission of the original copyright holder.

Quote:

(although it should be noted that when it comes to CDs, defeating copyright protection and encryption is illegal)

I was hoping that the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) wouldn't get brought up because it opens a whole new can of worms. Case and point - I have a CD that I want to make a copy of to play in my car on a long trip, under the fair use laws this is acceptable as long as I don't get my copy to anyone and it is for my personal use. Now here is where things get interesting, when I start to make the copy at my computer I find out that it is a CD-E (a Blue Book format CD with an audio and data section) with both a that has anti-copy software on the CD. According the DMCA there is nothing I can do at this point to copy the CD without violating the DMCA; however, under copyright fair use the software is preventing me from making a legal copy of the CD for my use.

Add to the factor that in most cases if the software doesn’t start running I can make a copy of the CD and be in violation of the DMCA at the same time and you start to see why things are complicated. Case and point – if I put the CD in my Linux box it doesn’t start playing because it is a Windows only program, this technically defeats the copy protection even though it was a failure in the development of the software though which it failed.

Quote:

And actually, Fair Use does not involve using rights given by authors. Fair Use involves using or reproducing portions of a copyrighted work WITHOUT permission, in certain situations.

Yeah, I got the terms mixed up - thanks for pointing that out. Anime smallmouth + sweatdrop

Still can't remember what the right term would be for such a situation (copyrighted webpage being downloaded to a computer for temporary viewing while browsing) - implied consent perhaps?

radicaledward wrote:

or you receive them through an approved distributor.

Well yeah, I know you can get it from legal sites, I was referring strictly to downloading without permission.

radicaledward wrote:

I was hoping that the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) wouldn't get brought up because it opens a whole new can of worms.

Yup, I had a feeling you didn't want me to go there, which is why I did Wink

radicaledward wrote:

Still can't remember what the right term would be for such a situation (copyrighted webpage being downloaded to a computer for temporary viewing while browsing) - implied consent perhaps?

Implied consent is probably the best term.

I think this thread is doing it's job since I haven't seen an anime download request topic in a while. I might be speaking too soon.

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