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Do NOT ask for Downloads! [Or Illegal Streaming Video Links]


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Triple_Dude



Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 19
Location: Canada ^_^

PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:54 pm Reply with quote
DranzerX13 wrote:
I have a question.

Q: What if there is an anime that is old and there are no VHS or DVD of but only TV rips? is that illegal?

A:


Q2: What if there is an anime that you can only find via TV rips and can't buy anymore? and is out of print and can't find used on auction sites throughout the entire world whatsoever? is this also illegal?

A:

note: When I search for stuff I want and can't find it...I mean I can't find it. I'm good searching sites in different languages too.

note 2: most of the time when I buy my imports I usually buy them in sets via yahoo japan to save major money. I go through a company who has a Japanese supplier who does the bidding, etc.
It's quite simple, legal wise.

The answer to both of your question, from a purely legal perspective is: "No, it is illegal, even if you cannot obtain any legally distributed copies".

However, like Tony K. stated, it's out of anyone's control what you actually do, regardless of what the law says.
amax88 wrote:
is it animenewsnetwork also can watch anime movie..???
where can find that can really can watch>>?
please tell me..
LOL... Did you post that just to spite people Laughing?
Darth_blade wrote:
Letter of the law or spirit of the law? Believe me, I know what I'm talking about here - it is legal, due to loopholes and the fact that if you ever try to persecute someone for possession of fansubs or ripped movies\music, you will only be laughed at.
Ah, finally someone who knows at least a little bit of what they're talking about.

Good thing you brought up the "spirit of the law"--unfortunately, Treaties are a bit more complicated then your joe average federal and judicial law systems.

In this particular case, the spirit of the law and the word of the law are almost unanimous when it comes to the Berne Convention. I'll quote the summary of the 3 main provisions:
Berne Convention Summary wrote:
(a) Works originating in one of the contracting States (that is, works the author of which is a national of such a State or works which were first published in such a State) must be given the same protection in each of the other contracting States as the latter grants to the works of its own nationals (principle of “national treatment”)

(b) Such protection must not be conditional upon compliance with any formality (principle of “automatic” protection)

(c) Such protection is independent of the existence of protection in the country of origin of the work (principle of the “independence” of protection). If, however, a contracting State provides for a longer term than the minimum prescribed by the Convention and the work ceases to be protected in the country of origin, protection may be denied once protection in the country of origin ceases
It's quite black and white, with minimal gray areas. In effect, this simply states that any published work in the countries that have signed the treaties must protect such works under their law automatically (the protection will obviously differ from country to country; what's legal in Canada may not be in Sweden, and vice versa).

Sure, if you're a top notch lawyer, you can spin this--any law can be spun and interpreted differently depending on the context that it's presented in.

However, you are correct on one point: If any copyright holder (read: money mongering corporations) tries to persecute a particular individual for copyright infringement, they'll be laughed at--and lose a lot of money.

Unfortunately for you, it's not because of the reason you are stating--a.k.a. it's not the spirit of the law that's preventing them from doing so.

They (read: money mongering corporations) are smart, whether we like it or not. They know there's no money in suing individuals. Let's set up an example case:
Assume suing each individual who has ever infringed on their copyrighted material costs 100,00K USD; it's quite obvious that the average joe in this day and age don't generally have 100,00K USD or more in assets, so there's no benefit (in fact, they'll lose money even IF they win) for them to sue individuals.

Believe me (hell, you don't need to--I know you're smart enough to realize this), if we were all rich bastards with millions, and still pirate movie/music/anime/whatever, they'd be after all of our wallets within a heartbeat.

Darth_blade wrote:
1) That was in summer '05
2) I rarely remember the (user)names of people I'm not interested in.
Burden of proof is on you, good sir. Prove it, or don't state it (Notice here I'm not saying it did NOT happen--au contraire, I'm simply telling you to not bring up a worthless point if you can't back it up).

I'll keep it simple, Darth_blade:
Forums, by the law of the land the server resides in (in this case, the US), are private properties (har har, here we go again, with all the legality bull****). Therefore, it is essentially a dictatorship--thus the rules can be imposed and reinforced by the board owner, or those appointed by the board owners.

The rule(s) in this case is simple: Don't discuss about downloading anime [illegally].

My point, and question: Why are you arguing against a dictatorship Rolling Eyes? Don't you have better things to do in St. Petersburg, like enjoying the summer while it still lasts Laughing?

I'll be the last person to be a hypocrite and actually condemn fansubs--That, good sir, I will not do. That said, it won't prevent me from actually following this forum's rules.

Have a nice day, good sir.
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Minami_Yuuki



Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:03 am Reply with quote
spoiler[Can I Request all Episodes of all the animes here. I really wanna watch them all..]
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Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 5654
Location: Arcana City

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:41 am Reply with quote
Minami_Yuuki wrote:
spoiler[Can I Request all Episodes of all the animes here. I really wanna watch them all..]
No. You Fail. What part of "Do NOT" do you not understand? And if you're going to give me the "English isn't my first language so I didn't understand" excuse, then go ask on a forum that is in your language.
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Mr Adventure



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 1214

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:23 am Reply with quote
Is it okay to talk about the fact that you are watching fan-subs and their various quality as long as you don't tell anyone where you're getting them?
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 6072
Location: Wales

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:07 am Reply with quote
Just talk about the series. It doesn't matter to the discussion how you're watching it - don't ask, don't tell. If you just want to discuss stuff like the merits of one unofficial translation over another then there are places better geared to that which aren't hard to find.
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Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 5654
Location: Arcana City

PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:21 pm Reply with quote
Mr Adventure wrote:
Is it okay to talk about the fact that you are watching fan-subs and their various quality as long as you don't tell anyone where you're getting them?
If it's relevant to the series and your understanding/enjoyment of it, I'm fine with it. But we're not going to allow threads for "What's the best fansub group for [series]?" For stuff like that, there's a-suki / anime-planet / anidb. If you're discussing series that aren't officially available in English...well, it's a natural assumption that such discussions are based on fansubs, so there's no need to point out that you're watching fansubbed versions.
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Sumireko



Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:57 pm Reply with quote
With all this being said, can't you guys like make a list of "Legal" sites or something?

i mean really now, do you expect this site to actually have any people stay if they can't say "You should watch ----- by going to wwwdotthis-site-is-fakedotcom"

if not whats the since of running this site? if people wanted to they could make a freewebs/piczo page and allow anime + links. be it legal or not. streaming can't get anyone BUT the owner of the video in trouble, on the account of claiming the anime+characters as their own.

on top of all that, i normally post in a gaming forum and they even allow us to post direct links to any streaming site as long as its appropriate.

Another thing is yes Downloads can be Illegal, as well as legal. it just depends on the anime/makers
(personally i don't care about downloads, just streaming)
Question 1: is it on-going, new.
Or
Question 2: is it old, canceled and hard to find.

if its new/on-going its most likely someone may press charges.
if its old/canceled, i doubt the makers will care much but, would rather have the credit acknowledged.

FYI: im just asking a question, and speaking what i think.

if your finding what im saying hard to understand, I'll say it Very easily for you to understand: Someone is being paranoid.

if i get banned for having a right to speak, so be it. as long as what i said gets to be known.
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Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 5654
Location: Arcana City

PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:19 pm Reply with quote
Sumireko wrote:
With all this being said, can't you guys like make a list of "Legal" sites or something?
There have been several threads about such sites made in the past, like this one:

animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=57588
Quote:
i mean really now, do you expect this site to actually have any people stay if they can't say "You should watch ----- by going to wwwdotthis-site-is-fakedotcom"
Many people have stayed here for many years despite the inability to say such things, so no, I don't think anyone else worries about this. AnimeOnDVD's forums are just as if not more restrictive on download/streaming links, and they enjoy a perfectly healthy community. After all, ANN's Encyclopedia has plenty of information about where to find just about any R1-released anime on DVD, and it's assumed that people are smart enough to find whatever downloads/streams they're looking for without asking about them here. If they're not smart enough to do so, then I'm sure they routinely get their fix from Yahoo Answers.
Quote:
if not whats the sense of running this site? if people wanted to they could make a freewebs/piczo page and allow anime + links. be it legal or not. streaming can't get anyone BUT the owner of the video in trouble, on the account of claiming the anime+characters as their own.
They're welcome to do so. But people come to and stay at ANN get a certain level of news, feature content, anime data, and forum community. Not to find where to see streaming video for some series or another. It's not about people getting in trouble or not -- it's about not wanting to associate ANN with links to illegal content.
Quote:
on top of all that, i normally post in a gaming forum and they even allow us to post direct links to any streaming site as long as its appropriate.
So? Your gaming forum ≠ ANN forums. They have their own rules, but ANN's rules were decided a long time ago and are quite clear on the matter.
Quote:
Another thing is yes Downloads can be Illegal, as well as legal. it just depends on the anime/makers
(personally i don't care about downloads, just streaming)
Question 1: is it on-going, new.
Or
Question 2: is it old, canceled and hard to find.

if its new/on-going its most likely someone may press charges.
if its old/canceled, i doubt the makers will care much but, would rather have the credit acknowledged.
Chances are those copyrights are still owned by someone, even if it is something old/obscure/out-of-print. A lot of the time the American and Japanese companies don't know exactly who owns which rights for such series, so it's unlikely that we as fans would know. So it's too much of a hassle to sort through and determine which, if any, anime are "fair game"; it's easier to prohibit links to unauthorized content and be done with it.
Quote:
FYI: im just asking a question, and speaking what i think.

if your finding what im saying hard to understand, I'll say it Very easily for you to understand: Someone is being paranoid.

if i get banned for having a right to speak, so be it. as long as what i said gets to be known.
I don't support banning anyone merely for having opinions like this. But there are reasons that things are the way they are around here, and baseless paranoia is not among them. I'm just trying to explain these reasons. I don't make the rules; I just enforce them.

Last edited by Zalis116 on Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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GrinfilledCelt



Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 75
Location: I wish I were in Ocqueoc.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:58 am Reply with quote
I scanned every page of this thread but I didn't read every post so I may have missed it, but you guys keep talking about this Berne Convention thingy but no one bothers to put up a link to it. I've never heard of it before even though I pay more than average attention to such matters. Am I just supposed to take your word that it exists and says what you say it says or go do my own research, or is it just against the rules to link to it?
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12855
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:03 am Reply with quote
GrinfilledCelt wrote:
I scanned every page of this thread but I didn't read every post so I may have missed it, but you guys keep talking about this Berne Convention thingy but no one bothers to put up a link to it. I've never heard of it before even though I pay more than average attention to such matters. Am I just supposed to take your word that it exists and says what you say it says or go do my own research, or is it just against the rules to link to it?


What are you talking about, it literally took me less than twenty seconds to find it.
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GrinfilledCelt



Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 75
Location: I wish I were in Ocqueoc.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:09 pm Reply with quote
Thank you for illustrating my point for me, dtm42, even though you totally missed it. Also, thank you for the link which you will notice doesn't appear anywhere else in this thread, which is exactly what I was talking about.
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ikillchicken
Space CowboySpace Cowboy


Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7029
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:16 am Reply with quote
GrinfilledCelt wrote:
Thank you for illustrating my point for me, dtm42, even though you totally missed it. Also, thank you for the link which you will notice doesn't appear anywhere else in this thread, which is exactly what I was talking about.


I think dtm42's point is: Why does it matter that nobody provided a link? It's really easy to find on your own. If you're really that worried that they're making this up or something (seriously?) then just wiki 'Berne Convention'. It takes all of a few seconds. It's not 'research'.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12855
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:29 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
I think dtm42's point is: Why does it matter that nobody provided a link? It's really easy to find on your own. If you're really that worried that they're making this up or something (seriously?) then just wiki 'Berne Convention'. It takes all of a few seconds. It's not 'research'.


Exactly. Like I said, it took me literally less than twenty seconds to go from opening a new tab to Wikipedia's page on the Berne Convention. It's hardly obscure.

As for why the link has not been posted yet, there are two reasons I can think of. The first is that people assume that you already know something about copyright laws if you are going to be debating about copyright. At the very least passing knowledge of the Berne Convention is practically required for people to take you seriously.

The second is that this isn't necessarily a thread devoted to debate about copyright. Sure, debate has happened, but ultimately this thread is to tell people ANN's official position on a particular matter. The title makes it quite clear that though you can argue or debate all you want, ANN's policy is final. Anyway, there is no real need to cite copyright law in a thread who's reason for being is to not to educate people, but instead to lay out the rules.

I will say that I appreciate the Mods taking the time to respond to people and advise them on what is specifically okay or not, but they probably don't have to. After all, you cannot really get much more clear, concise and comprehensive as "Do NOT ask for Downloads! [Or Streaming Video Links]". Anyway, that's what I get from it.
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GrinfilledCelt



Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 75
Location: I wish I were in Ocqueoc.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:05 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
GrinfilledCelt wrote:
Thank you for illustrating my point for me, dtm42, even though you totally missed it. Also, thank you for the link which you will notice doesn't appear anywhere else in this thread, which is exactly what I was talking about.


I think dtm42's point is: Why does it matter that nobody provided a link? It's really easy to find on your own. If you're really that worried that they're making this up or something (seriously?) then just wiki 'Berne Convention'. It takes all of a few seconds. It's not 'research'.
It does matter that no one provided a link and how much time it takes to find it has nothing to do with it. If your going to claim an authoritative source for something, link to it. I've got better things to do than to than to go looking for sources to back up your assertions. If you don't I'm just going to assume that you are blowing hot air and stop paying you any attention. You'll find that it works that way pretty much everywhere on the net.

The Berne Convention is a central point for this whole thread so a link most certainly should have been provided.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9575
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:35 am Reply with quote
GrinfilledCelt wrote:
If you don't I'm just going to assume that you are blowing hot air and stop paying you any attention.

Absolutely. We don't deserve your attention; feel free to ignore us, or the entire site for that matter.
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