Forum - View topicJason Thompson's House of 1000 Manga - Saint Seiya: Knights of the Zodiac
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ptolemy18
Manga Reviewer/Creator/Taster
Posts: 357 Location: San Francisco |
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Good point! You were right, I was misleading -- there really isn't that much actual dying-and-coming-back in Saint Seiya (at least compared to, say, Dragon Ball). But there is tons of coming back from near death and horrible injuries.
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GATSU
Posts: 15298 |
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Funny you should bring that up, as there's an old NES game which most likely takes its cue from Seiya called Flying Warriors. |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2544 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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It's brought up a couple of times that Shun could very well be the strongest of them all due to how his Nubela Chains work, but since he generally detests battle (or at the very least he doesn't want to kill his opponent), he rarely uses his full potential.
Yeah, not two fights in B't X are really the same. Hell, there's a couple that aren't even "fights" in the traditional sense, like that epic battle of numbers you mentioned. That probably my favorite fight in the manga. I also say that B't X is great for those who love super robots as well.
Trust me, DiC's version of the show would have turned you off. It was an absolutely horrible edit with absolutely horrible voice work. For example, Hyoga is given a surfer accent in KotZ. Hyoga is half-russian and was raised in Siberia, so where the hell does surfer accent fit in?! Also, DiC can't have watched much of the anime, as Shiryu's slitting of his wrists to repair the cloths happened fairly early on and was eventually aired... Where they changed the blood to a different color (I believe green) and refereed to it as "mystic energy" or something similar to it. Thankfully Viz's release of the manga is untouched, outside of some name and terminology changes that mostly affect the first 13 volumes. Mari Morimoto, who translated the manga, has pointed out DiC's odd name chaging of Cancer Deathmask to Cancer Mephisto... Where Mephisto is generally a name that is reserved for when referring to the Devil. Yeah, you can't have a name with "Death" in it on TV, but you can reference the Devil all you want. |
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Alucalb
Posts: 171 |
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Yeah, I've heard jokes about how everbody bleeds Gatorade in KOTZ. Despite the corny dub I became interested in Saint Seiya. I read most of the manga from the library and watched all the OVAs (really loved The Lost Canvas, anyword on when the next season starts?). |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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Lightspeed punches... big bang explosions... galaxy bending... 1000 nights fights... trips through 7 different kinds of hell... losing all your senses, one by one... Greek mythology... all in one. Incredible, ain't it?
Direct to video releases date seem to always be announced like a few months before the actual DVD/BD release, so it could be out in 3 months for all we know! I'd love to see this and DTB 3 coming out at the same time. Well, I can dream. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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http://www.rightstuf.com/1-800-338-6827/catalogmgr/xzk2p1vMmWAlRgk97b/browse/item/82096/4/864/24 http://www.rightstuf.com/1-800-338-6827/catalogmgr/xzk2p1vMmWAlRgk97b/browse/item/82290/4/864/24 This is better than the DiC dub. It just ends around ep 60. I've heard it about Shun (being strongest), but also Saga. Considering how this thing moved, it's really hard to say who's THE strongest unless Kurumada ever said. Fact is Shun was always being bailed out by Big Bro & Ikki IS pretty awesome. Considering the Phoenix cloth is believed to return the Saint to life until he's deemed unworthy & he's pretty unstoppable, (plus he's such a cool big bro), I'd say Ikki's a bit higher up the power pole. Thing is, the Andromeda Saint's chains are pretty efficient in protecting their master-Shun-so they can react without his orders. So with that in mind, Shun may not be all that, but the Andromeda Saint is. The pathetic thing is Shun originally drew the short straw to train at a place which was considered hell on earth, but Ikki went in his stead & Shun still managed to draw the 2nd worst place to train. Saint Seiya isn't just rabid fangirl reading too much in. On Death Queen Island or whichever it was in the manga Ikki loved a girl who was pretty damned close in appearance to Shun. Major brother complex in both directions. DiC changed all the blood they didn't remove (they did remove some) into green or purple "mystic energy" as well as tried to eliminate all deaths. I loved the added comment when the helicopters went down on Ikki's island that the guys in them all had their parachutes on (too bad they landed in the lava covering much of the surface of the island, right?). They really worked too hard to sanitize Saint Seiya. |
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mangaka-chan
 Posts: 283 |
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Ahh~ Saint Seiya. I was a 7 year-old girl when it came out and it was my first introduction to bishies, but I never really thought about how violent the manga is until reading this review. Maybe I just didn't understand it at a young age and was desensitized later in life. Even to this day I'm not bothered by all the blood, but rather by the bad art (though the art improved by the Poseidon and Hades arc and I occasionally reread those parts of the manga).
The one thing that I didn't like about it was that the Pisces Saint was a villain and as a Pisces I've always bemoaned the fact that the saint representing my zodiac had to be one of the unrepentant bad guys (though Lost Canvas has since made me feel a lot better about the Pisces Saint). And about Shun, is he the strongest saint because spoiler[he's the host for Hades]? |
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LeoKnight25
 Posts: 319 Location: Puyallup, WA |
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Great article on Saint Seiya, Jason. I agree that Kurumada's art is a tad awkward at times but, in a sea of almost identical styles, it really stands out as very unique in both style and perspective. Anatomical proportion definitely isn't his strong suit but, in a kids manga I don't think it's necessary. If anyone ever has a chance, check out his art-book "Burning Blood". Really good stuff, and it shows off his skill as an artist pretty well. His art style almost reminds me of Japanese wood block paintings.
As for the story issues, it really isn't all that complicated, I admit, but the mixing of the mythology from different cultures is really interesting. Plus, I'm just a sucker for that kinda simple storytelling. The story gets much more complex with the addition of the three other manga: "Lost Canvas", "Next Dimension" and "Episode G", but the original manga is straight up action for the most part. Like I said, great article! Hope to see more classic manga reviewed here! |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2544 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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Hey, at least you aren't a Cancer, like I am. The guy representing me is a lunatic who can bring the living into the world of the dead (pretty much the gateway to Hades' realm). Plus he's named Deathmask. At least Lost Canvas' Cancer Saint was able to take the same kind of character, but remove the evilness that the "original" Cancer Saint had and instead replace it utter badassness. |
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perroloco
Posts: 307 |
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Thanks for the review this is such a great series.
I never understood why this manga/anime never got the attention it deserves in the US, I'd go as far as to say that worldwide this might be as popular as DB.. But yeah, this along with DB and Captain Tsubasa could be like the Holy Trinity of Old popular anime, popular worldwide. BTW my favorite saints are Shun and Shaka lol, both are Virgo as I am, and yeah IMO Shun is the strongest Saint but he just doesn't like to fight.. And NO Kurumada shouldn't declare who is the strongest Saint, even when he is the creator he just doesn't have the right idea of Power Levels, IIRC in an interview he said something along the lines of Q: Who is the strongest Gold Saint A: They are all equal. WTF?! I mean you could say that about the strongest like Shaka and Saga, and even that it took a lot of effort in the Hades arc in the spoiler[Shaka vs Shura, Saga, Camus battle, Shaka was putting a very good fight, he lost but that was because Shaka wanted to die lol] so I wouldn't say that Shaka and Saga are equal.. Let alone say.. Aldebaran and Shaka.. Seriously Kurumada lol |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2544 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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Horonobu Kageyama, the man who sung the openings to Dragon Ball Z and the second opening to Saint Seiya (among tons more songs, and that's not even including JAM Project), once said in an interview that it's nice to have a second song that is so fondly loved around the world. For example, when he performs in Asia and North America his main attraction is Cha-La-Head-Cha-La (DBZ's 1st OP) but when he performs in Europe and South America his main attraction if Saint Shinwa ~Soldier Dream~ (Seiya's 2nd OP). As for why the series never found a big audience "north of Mexico", well I will agree with the sentiment that the anime was brought over about 10 years too late for TV. If it was aried "alongside" DBZ during the early 90s Saint Seiya probably would have found an audience then, but when DiC brought it over in 2003 it was decried as "too old" and "a DBZ clone", not to mention DiC's abomination of an adaptation didn't help it out one bit. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if people who liked Ronin Warriors thought of it as nothing but a clone of that show, when in reality Ronin Warriors was heavily inspired from Saint Seiya. As for the manga, Mari Morimoto told me that she had asked Viz repeatedly to license the manga years before DiC had anything to do with Seiya, but Viz was already saying that it was "too old" at that point. At least when Viz finally decided to pick up the manga they did the right thing and contacted Morimoto about her translating it. Also, Morimoto also admitted that she feels the biggest reason why Kurumada's mangas don't do well here is because his art style is "too old looking". Now she does have a point there, as Kurumada's artwork now looks much more refined than in his earlier works but hasn't "improved" or modernized one bit, but I think that's part of what makes Kurumada's style so recognizable. See a pattern here? |
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RyougaZell
Posts: 36 |
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I stopped reading when the article said 'it was never a hit on America'
It was never a hit on United States. Because Saint Seiya was a very big hit on Mexico, Argentina, Brazil and evey Latin and Center American country. Saint Seiya, like Sailor Moon, were big hits, but censorship on the USA made the series arrive to late. To this day... you can find Saint Seiya action figures on Mexican Malls, imported from the recent releases on Japan. It was a hit as big as Dragon Ball here. |
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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I love Aphrodite. So pretty. Gee, I don't have any problem loving Saga as the Gemini Saint & being a Gemini myself. He's prettier than Canon & I really, really like him, enough I paid $100 (plus shipping) to get the Bandai figure. I have Aphrodite also. Also have Scorpio & Cancer. The shop in the Valley says they're getting a couple in next month. A variation on Aphrodite. I hope the other is God-cloth Ikki Phoenix.
No. It's explained the requirement for that is the purest, most gentle soul to be found which is Shun. I mean, look at Canvas--artist, isn't it? Shun's chains are as overprotective as his brother. |
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jr240483
 Posts: 4376 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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I would not say that. Even to this day I stil like their version of Knights of the Zodiac (though it's #2 on my list.) And it was the anime that made me seeked out the manga when viz starting releasing it. Sure it was not perfect , but anime dubbing was still in it's infamy and was just starting up when it came to the US. Besides i'll defintely take DIC's duubing over the horror that was 4kids any day of the week. Too bad ADV never completed their UNCUT version though.
HAHAHAHAHHA!! That was a good laugh. Though yeah , even Dark Schneider's Megadeath and Exodus spells , would look like specs to that. Heck i would not even be susprised if he even submit to Athena if he ever got nailed by Athena's Exclamation attack. ( Unfortunately this is DS here , so he'll just do the latter) 
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2544 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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No, anime dubbing was in no way in its "infancy" (if that's the term you meant) when DiC brought over Saint Seiya. We already had shows on Toonami that showed how anime dubbing could be could be accurate to the original material but still be acceptable to be aired on U.S./Canadian television. Also, companies like Bandai, ADV, and Viz were already releasing anime on VHS and soon DVD with dubs that were shown to be accurate enough to the original material. Yeah, Bandai had a misstep with Escaflowne in how they tried to make the FoxKids version more of Van's story than Hitomi, but at least the dub was still a good one that tried to keep in touch with the feel of the original show. The truth of the matter is that DiC treated their dub of Saint Seiya in the same way they treated their dub of Sailor Moon, but 2003/2004 wasn't the day and age to dub an anime like that anymore. DiC was still living in the past and didn't bother to try to see what was happening around them.
That was because DiC never bothered to license anymore of the show, which would have allowed ADV to release the rest, and Toei didn't seem to be willing to let ADV license the second half, or even the next 13 episodes, of a show that they didn't have the full license of. |
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