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Hey, Answerman! - Think Of The Children


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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3453
Location: Louisville, KY

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:26 pm Reply with quote
I'm going to flat out say it I do pirate anime when and there is no way to justify why I do it. Hell I've waited six to seven years for higursahi kai, eight years for AISHITERUZE Baby and even five years for dennou coil to get localized sometimes a persons patience just runs out. I sadly just do it because of this there and the r2 dvd's are out of print but still buy what is ever localized here such as games or manga but it's not justifiable. I don't feel like adding anymore to the topic of piracy it's up to your own moral standards.

Last edited by Cecilthedarkknight_234 on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:34 pm Reply with quote
I won't try to "justify it", but Aniplex never would have gotten my 400+ dollars from importing Dog Days if it wasn't for fansubs. Too many series get no legal streams, and fansubs are only way to see them.. and I'm not going to pay Japanese prices to buy something blindly.
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AnimeMaine



Joined: 11 May 2009
Posts: 85

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:04 pm Reply with quote
I never justified my downloading of fansubs but I would do something like the writer of the question. If I watched a series, I bought the series when it was available in the U.S.
Now I've gone farther. With so many reviews on the internet, I read those. If a series gets my interest, I wait for the show to, hopefully, be licensed in the U.S. If it isn't, well, the owner of the property has decided to ignore this market. But with so many anime series out there, I don't mind if I miss a series or two.
And now, I can watch some anime on Crunchyroll, Hulu or Funimation. I just don't bother with that because I'm an old-timer who likes his DVDs and Blu-rays.
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Kazemon15



Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 314

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:20 pm Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:
I won't try to "justify it", but Aniplex never would have gotten my 400+ dollars from importing Dog Days if it wasn't for fansubs. Too many series get no legal streams, and fansubs are only way to see them.. and I'm not going to pay Japanese prices to buy something blindly.


This is basically me with the Reborn! series....I bought all the Boxsets and even a bunch of singles (200+ episode anime), merchandise and other stuff, cds, ect, so it comes around, since 2008, I spent over 3-4 thousand dollars on this one series... all because I was asked to watch the fansubs with a friend.

I also will outright say that I never cared for legal streaming, especially the ones you gotta pay for. I would much rather put the 8 dollars a month toward a DVD I am going to buy of it later. I'm a collector, I don't just wanna watch it on my computer and then be done with it. I want to physically own it and legal streaming just won't do that for me.
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tuxedocat
He started itHe started it


Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2118

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:26 pm Reply with quote
Answerman wrote:
Now, there's certainly "convenient" piracy, such as you were describing with Penguindrum - with no easily-accessible English version available, you turned to the only option available to watch it. Sure, whatever man. You and thousands of other people did the same thing. Unlike those thousands of other people, you made sure to "support" the show by buying DVDs and merchandise, and you've got the R1 releases pre-ordered. More of that, please.


Here is a paradox; There are people like this who "pirate", but then buy a ton of stuff related to the title. Then there are people like me, who won't watch the title illegally, but won't spend any money at all on something that I couldn't preview in a legal way.

What supports the industry more?

Take, for example, Garden of Sinners. The only way I can legally see this show is by spending $100+ on a DVD set. No legal stream available anywhere, not even limited to premium members of legal streaming sites. -- I own a ton of anime, but have long since stopped buying shows that I haven't previewed in some way. So "no sale" for me on Garden of Sinners.

I would rather show my support by encouraging the industry to legally stream as a way to sell their products, even if the legal stream is only available for a limited time. If a company is going to be so proprietary, they could make the product available only to premium members, who are more likely to have money since they spend it on a subscription.

I see a problem with an industry that is so cynical that they accept their core overseas market exists only because of piracy.
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ConanSan



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1818

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:27 pm Reply with quote
Well, untill someone streams JoJo's and AKB4800 and provides a European stream of Accel World we're out of options aren't we?
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 7616

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:35 pm Reply with quote
Bryan on Anna wrote:
Nope! This is a dross, jumbled, weird boring mess.


Oh my god was it ever. I was so exhausted watching it, and I could probably slog through the five whole hours of Das Boot again without any issue, and then watch Eyes Wide Shut to top it off without feeling as bored and uninterested as I was seeing Keira Knightly cuckold Jude Law.

On Les Mis, yeah, the way that movie was filmed was nauseating. If it weren't a picture that needed to focus on faces to show people singing (the entire reason it exists), then it would have been probably one of the worst things I've seen all year. The extra camera movements weren't needed, but the closeups in general were fine.

Quote:
Soon enough, there will be a generation of kids for whom their entire entertainment diet will be completely digital and 100 percent on-demand.


Basically the only things that won't change are live broadcasts and possibly movie theaters. As digital and on-demand as we will become, we still won't ever possess 70+ft diagonal 2.35:1 movie screens with $200k projectors and 20 speakers. Nothing will ever replicate a good movie theater for normal middle classers. I like that.


Last edited by walw6pK4Alo on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Melanchthon



Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 543
Location: Northwest from Here

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:41 pm Reply with quote
Getting people to discover anime is not easy. It's a pretty fringe thing in a society filled with lots of fringe things. Personally, I didn't discover anime until my senior year of college, and the Light knows what would have become of me if I hadn't (probably would have a lot more money). But even adult swim wasn't enough for me. I had watched FMA and the like for a few years and nothing beyond it, before a friend sent me a link to a fansub site. I believe my reaction was, "Wait, there are people crazy enough to translate these awesome cartoons and post them online? This is the greatest thing that has ever happened to me!". Of course, these days the PC thing to do is point people towards Crunchyroll, but what I'm saying is if it weren't for that guy, I wouldn't be here today, and so, concerned fourteen-year-old, you need to be that guy for others.

As for the justifiable pirate, for a long time I tried to justify my own piracy. In the end, though, I realised the reason why I pirate is simple: I'm a bad person. Well, not really bad, but entirely selfish. It is far more convenient and cost effective to pirate, so I do it. I do buy a lot of shows as well, but that is more because I enjoy the act of collecting, so again it is for selfish purposes. And you know, once you admit that to yourself, you feel a whole lot better about it. So when I'm grabbing the latest rips from the Site That Shall Not Be Named or trawling through a certain stupid BT site looking for obscure 1994 OVAs, I'm at peace with myself. And that's the first step to enlightenment. Probably.

//Skyfall wasn't bad, but I wouldn't put it in the top ten of Bond movies. The only other movie I've seen recently was the Hobbit, which I only fell asleep during once, although I did get seasick a couple times.
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3481
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:59 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Piracy is never, ever "justified." It isn't. Jean Valjean stealing a loaf of bread to feed his sister's starving child? That's justified, sure. Downloading an .mkv from a torrent site? Nah - I can't really think of any life-or-death situation where that'll be justified.

There is a certain vagueness here. You are either asserting that piracy is not always impermissible but nonetheless always morally worse than certain other permissible actions, or the much stronger notion that piracy is always impermissible.
Because you later suggest that your correspondent's illegal download is not "necessarily evil", I doubt that the latter is your intention. This would weaken your claim that piracy is impossible to "justify" however, for I expect that many people who attempt to "justify" such actions (in this vague moral sense) are only wishing to show that they are not impermissible, which in some cases you may grant in accordance with the former interpretation.
Quote:
But I cannot abide people "justifying" that as some sort of moral victory. "WELL I WOULD'VE ACQUIRED IT LEGALLY IF I COULD'VE." I'm sure you would, but you didn't. You can't prove an impossibility. It is a textbook example of a false positive paradox.

You claim that the truth of the counterfactual conditional presented in inverted commas is not demonstrable. Although this may well be true, it is irrelevant to your imagined opponent's defence: she only requires that you grant that such a conditional is true, which, by reference to the passage in bold, you have done. Her defence rests only on her counterfactual behaviour. For this reason it perhaps cannot exculpate her actual actions, though I doubt that anyone who cites counterfactuals is trying to do so much.

On a separate note, the false-positive paradox is a statistical problem, not a logical one. Could you explain its relevance here?
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ljaesch



Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 289
Location: Enumclaw, WA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:24 pm Reply with quote
Brian is so right when it comes to younger generations getting their exposure to things through YouTube. My 11-year-old nephew seems to be constantly watching things on YouTube; whenever my 15-year-old daughter goes over to her cousin's house, she always seems to come home and tell me all about the various things they've watched on YouTube. They tend to watch video game walkthroughs, old videogame commercials, and even some anime.

A few months ago, they were watching a bit of Case Closed on the site; I made sure to stress to my 15-year-old that they needed to try to watch FUNimation's legal streams of the series at YouTube as much as possible. My 15-year-old also uses YouTube as a way to introduce her cousin to anime.

My kids (who range in age from 8 to 15) are fortunate enough to have a parent who writes about anime and manga, so the material is around the house one way or another. My 15-year-old also has friends who are right around her age who are also into anime and manga, and she tells me about what her friends like and what they're trying to get her to take a chance on.

From what I'm seeing with my own kids, it looks like "word of mouth" recommendations from friends is actually a rather effective way for the younger generations to find out about anime and manga.
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Red Fox of Fire



Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:31 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Unlike those thousands of other people, you made sure to "support" the show by buying DVDs and merchandise, and you've got the R1 releases pre-ordered.

Hey, I pre-ordered Penguindrum, too! And I bought a Princess of the Crystal figma at Anime Expo! All this after pirating the show so I could watch it in advance.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 7232
Location: England, UK

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:47 pm Reply with quote
tuxedocat wrote:
I see a problem with an industry that is so cynical that they accept their core overseas market exists only because of piracy.
Ah , but this is not cynicism. This is just the result of their more ingrained compulsive obcession with reverse importation into their historical core market that they will protect more than an actual mass of claimed land it seems. Besides they themselves have only recently caught on, or finally awoken from their denial, that the world outside of their borders are that interested in their culture and therefore their media that depicts their culture that they are now actively trying to close the stable doors, after the herd of lost sales has long since bolted. It's still early days and they haven't quite cracked it yet, but they are certainly putting more horsepower to the attempt. So it's not so much that they "accepted piracy" as so much they really actually didn't know it had cost them so much money in overseas sales simply because no one there could be bothered to look as they were, as they still are, too concentrated at gazing at their reverse importation navel.
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BonnKansan



Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:09 pm Reply with quote
To the person who mentioned Yuru Yuri, they have the first two volumes available in both English & Japanese at JManga, and you can also read some of the chapters for free at JManga7.
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kanechin



Joined: 21 Jan 2012
Posts: 381

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:45 pm Reply with quote
time to justify my love of piracy......i want anime....for free....end.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4034

PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:03 pm Reply with quote
tuxedocat wrote:
Here is a paradox; There are people like this who "pirate", but then buy a ton of stuff related to the title. Then there are people like me, who won't watch the title illegally, but won't spend any money at all on something that I couldn't ]preview in a legal way.

What supports the industry more?


I guarantee people who buy a 100+ dollar figures and merchandise directly from Japan are supporting the series more than someone who buys a 30 dollar box-set from Funimation. If you go by Answerman's previous analysis, they only see about 15% of your sale money as a royalty and the rest goes to Funimation. So that means about 5 bucks on average goes to the original animators? 5 dollars VS 100+ merchandise; which, I might add, actually fuels the Japanese economy directly, not the American one? Not to mention you're paying in yen, which is stronger than the US dollar? 5 bucks converted into yen is even less than that due to conversion rate. It's better to create more of a demand in the Japanese market with your money. Even just importing a few 450 yen manga volumes does more, because your sales will actually be counted in that weekly ranking chart, unlike if you bought American. There's so many better and alternative ways to support a series than buying R1 releases.

Quote:
I see a problem with an industry that is so cynical that they accept their core overseas market exists only because of piracy.


There's nothing really wrong with this. Unless you're a very small country like Norway (who makes The Longest Journey video game series) foreign sales shouldn't matter that much. I doubt Nickelodeon cares if people in Budapest are downloading Spongebob Squarepants episodes; they can survive without the foreign market. Japanese sales are all that matter in terms of if a series is considered a success and gets more seasons or if it's a failure. Heck, it applies to American shows as well given some instances I've heard of series being more popular in the UK than the US. Granted, there's no proof outside the creator's word so he could be lying and just being butt-pained over being cancelled, so take it with a grain of salt I suppose.

But otherwise, yeah. Too many series go unlicensed and unstreamed to not pirate anime if you're more than a casual TV watcher of anime; and that's if you're American. Far less stuff is available to you for streaming if you live outside the US, so they got even more reason to do it.

ljaesch wrote:
A few months ago, they were watching a bit of Case Closed on the site; I made sure to stress to my 15-year-old that they needed to try to watch FUNimation's legal streams of the series at YouTube as much as possible.


Actually Detective Conan would be a great example of a show you have to pirate if you want to watch. One of the greatest and most iconic anime series of all time isn't available here. Sounds like a reason to watch fansubs to me. Tons of other countries in the world get it and air it, but not America. Same goes for other great series like Crayon Shin-chan and Doraemon.


Last edited by TitanXL on Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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