Forum - View topic
NEWS: Tokyo's Youth Ordinance Bill Committee Vote on Monday


Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
akizuki minori



Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Saitama, Japan

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:42 pm Reply with quote
Ishihara again ;/

When will he realize that by regulating this whole thing the cons. will hit more than the pros.? This is simply an idiotic bill yet again suggested by some senile old man who is also against gays just because he thinks that they are abnormally, genetically defective.

While it is arugable that hentai and overboard fanservice mumbo jumbo might not do the industry fine in the long run, at least don't go to the point of taking away the freedom of artistic expression and just leave them to die out on their own (which it will be unlikely).

With that said, I am against the bill fully.


Last edited by akizuki minori on Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 2256

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:47 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
While moe and sexual appeal might not do the industry fine in the long run,
moe is VERY good for the idustry (as far as income is concerned)

sexual appeal also....kiss x sis made pretty decent money and stuff like ikkoutousen or w/e it's called sell pretty well in america
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address My Anime My Manga
Zilan



Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:29 pm Reply with quote
Someone please explain this BS bill to me.

If it passes does It mean they'll be banning fan service in anime/manga? No more highschool girl pantie shots/boobs, no more lolicon fanservice etc...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anymouse



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 685

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:38 pm Reply with quote
But it will only ban panty and boob shots of high school students and children in comics targeted at high school students and children. If the books are being sold to adults then its A-Okay. So the lolicon fan service stays, and only the high school comedies have to change their style.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
the-antihero



Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 486

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:50 pm Reply with quote
Well, it it had to go sometime. But if you ask me, I don't think the bill is gonna go through. The Japanese are too fixated on freedom of expression to allow that. Sure the stuff in anime and manga can sometimes be weird or even disturbing or even make one say WTF?!!!, but I doubt Japan's youth are very easily influenced by that stuff so I don't think social norms and values and their culture are at risk, so there's really no reason for the bill to go through. Surprisingly, when I went to Japan, despite all the yaoi and stuff they make, Japanese actually frown upon that stuff, even a liberal country can be conservative.

I just find it it weird that non-Japanese are being so offended, it's not like the best anime and manga are those that have crazy fan service and stuff, just look at Flame of Recca, Naruto, Gundam, Fullmetal Alchemist and Death Note, they're pretty 'tamed' in their content, and surprisingly the latter considering its title and theme and that's anime and manga at their best. I'd like to see more of that rather than another Girls Bravo, Dance in the Vampire Bund, Highschool of the Dead, or even another Sekirei.

Is it really that big of a deal. I say let the Japanese solve or create their own problems while we focus on our own countries issues.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nemo_N



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:42 pm Reply with quote
Zilan wrote:
Someone please explain this BS bill to me.

If it passes does It mean they'll be banning fan service in anime/manga? No more highschool girl pantie shots/boobs, no more lolicon fanservice etc...

No. This bill is about restriction, which sounds tame but actually it's not.

Allow me to explain; it could be used to slap an "adults only" label on anything the government deems "harmful" for children, even stuff that could help a teenager (or even a child) understand (and challenge) taboo topics in society. The mistake here I see most people make is to think in the most exuberant examples, i.e., lolicon smut and the likes.

But that's not the only thing this bill could restrict.

For example: works "considered to be excessively disrupting of social order", as Governor Ishihara himself very happily illustrated with this display of bigotry, could be such things as gay persons or couples in an all-ages work. So you'd have a work deemed "adults only" for the crime of showing a gay couple.

The key here is the vagueness of the wording; "sexually stimulating, encourages cruelty, and/or may compel suicide or criminal behavior", "manga, anime, and other images (except for real-life photography)" that "unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate", etc.

Thing is most people think these definitions are "obvious", but they really aren't; a 60 year old would be scandalized by something a 15 year old takes in stride, hence you'll see something sent to the adults section just because some old guy somewhere very much thinks so.

And, this must be stressed, there already are restrictions in place, so the only reason to place this bill out would be to expand the existing restrictions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marcos torres toledo



Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 227

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:07 pm Reply with quote
I agree this bill should be voted down. It seems to be part of a worid wide cenorship crusade to suppress adult enterainment in all it's forms. I wasn't into comics that much until Errie,Creepy, Vampira and Heavy Metal cam out I begain renting anime and buying manga. There seems to be a war on adulthood and goes back at least to the 19th century if not further back. Mad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cutiebunny



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 536

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:38 pm Reply with quote
If this bill passes, then I would like to purpose bill 157 - no reading pornographic material on the subway, especially when it's packed to the gills and you *have* to stand next to the over 40, creepy guy who is drooling over an ecchi drawing of the lolita-du-jour.


As for the bill, I do not want to see it pass. Granted, anyone who has ever been to Animate or some other anime store in Tokyo knows that, if you go to the Yaoi, Yuri or Hentai sections, you're going to see artwork that you might find disturbing. But, no one will ask you for ID to go to these floors (or sections) - in theory, you could easily bring a five year old child to the Yaoi section. But, people don't do that kind of stuff over there. Children are brought to children areas while teenagers head to sections geared more towards their interest. Yes, there are crossovers (particularly older men heading to events featuring young female characters), but, perverts are everywhere. I'd honestly rather they lust after an animated 11 year old girl than a real one.

I'd hate to say it, but, in some aspects, that's what I admire about Japanese culture. People have a brain and they, for the most part, use it. And they keep themselves in check.

If Tokyo wants to take up an issue, how about cracking down on groping on trains and buses? Or maybe the Tokyo authorities should instruct the locals on a thing called "patience" (as in, there is no need to push people to the floor so you can get to the train because another one will be there in about 4 minutes).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
grooven



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 764
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:20 pm Reply with quote
the-antihero wrote:
Surprisingly, when I went to Japan, despite all the yaoi and stuff they make, Japanese actually frown upon that stuff, even a liberal country can be conservative.


It would depend on the medium entirely. Japanese history has quite a bit of homosexuality that can not be ignored. Most daily life people there do not even agree with otaku culture to begin with due to 1989 example. BL manga would be considered "otaku" so of course they would frown on it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NDenizen



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:28 pm Reply with quote
For some reason, people seem to think prudence is "progression", that somehow being able to express yourself in a way that offends someone else is a remnant of the past that needs to be stopped.

It's really not. All the modesty and clamp down on subjects that can be explored that has occurred over the last century is just a gigantic step backwards, especially in a world where information can be spread almost instantly.

The recent Wikileaks scandal has seen there are a bunch of elites who really are obsessed with controlling what I am allowed to view, say and think, regardless of my own maturity or human rights, and that's really disturbing. So what about perverts or terrorists, i'll happily suffer them if it means a world where I can pursue whatever interests I want - that for me is freedom and security, for me and the next generation.

Surely it could be argued that clamping down on what the a young adult can use to expand his knowledge is abuse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 7376
Location: England, UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:24 am Reply with quote
Passing it is one thing, enforcing it is a whole different kettle of fish. This is an exercise in the Eleventh Commandment " Cover Thy Ass" by the Tokyo assembly and petting the pretty kitty belonging to the PTA and UNICEF, so if by chance they determine that the wanker what killed the British English teacher was caused by him overdosing on the various genres of hentai manga and anime that filled his appartment they have something on the books to be able to hang somebody for it. Ya pays yur money, ya takes yur choice. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
eragon2890



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:17 am Reply with quote
Anymouse wrote:
But it will only ban panty and boob shots of high school students and children in comics targeted at high school students and children. If the books are being sold to adults then its A-Okay. So the lolicon fan service stays, and only the high school comedies have to change their style.


NO! Highschool comedies don't have to change their style. A panty shot is in no way a "overexagerated depiction of a sexual act".

In fact, Ishihara stated himself in a press conference thay this would only apply to ...well basically, (lolicon) hentai, and that anime [qoute] "such as Doreamon, k-on" etc would not be affected in any way.

Moe and highschool comedy are 0% affected by this. Only hentai falls under this bill at all, and only rape hentai falls under the part that is actually regulated.

I don't think it's strange to make hentai only available to people over 18, just like in any other country? Wink

Or am I seeing something wrong here? Could anybody explain how on earth Lucky Star etc. falls under this law?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
eragon2890



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:25 am Reply with quote
To add:

"To be subject to regulations under the latest draft are works that glorify or exaggerate sexual intercourse that violates penal laws, as well as incest. The metropolitan government explains that "only manga and animation that glorifies or exaggerates illegal sexual acts will be subject to the regulations, and freedom of expression will not be violated.""

(source: http://mdn.mainichi.jp/​perspectives/​news/​20101211p2a00m0na036​000c.​html )

This is a much narrower definition than the article here on ANN suggests.

It is completely unthinkable that a highschool comedy falls under this definition. Only hard core hentai does.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Reaper gI



Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 299
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:42 am Reply with quote
Nemo_N wrote:
But that's not the only thing this bill could restrict.

The key here is the vagueness of the wording; "sexually stimulating, encourages cruelty, and/or may compel suicide or criminal behavior", "manga, anime, and other images (except for real-life photography)" that "unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate", etc.

The "sexually stimulating, and/or may compel suicide" is already in the current version. That fanservice you see now isn't enough to be considered sexualy stimulating.

Porn is also immune it's 18+ anyway, so loli, rape, incest etc. are fine so long as it's porn.

The new bit is the sexual acts that would be illegal in reality, and the "unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate" bit.
The arguement is about those two clauses primarily!!

Incest and relationships between a minor and an adult turn up a lot, espescialy in shoujo manga. This could hurt creative freedom there easily.
It doesn't define "glorify or exaggerate", without that cleared up (in the law itself) it will stifle creative freedom.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
eragon2890



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:19 am Reply with quote
Reaper gI wrote:
Nemo_N wrote:
But that's not the only thing this bill could restrict.

The key here is the vagueness of the wording; "sexually stimulating, encourages cruelty, and/or may compel suicide or criminal behavior", "manga, anime, and other images (except for real-life photography)" that "unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate", etc.

The "sexually stimulating, and/or may compel suicide" is already in the current version. That fanservice you see now isn't enough to be considered sexualy stimulating.

Porn is also immune it's 18+ anyway, so loli, rape, incest etc. are fine so long as it's porn.

The new bit is the sexual acts that would be illegal in reality, and the "unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate" bit.
The arguement is about those two clauses primarily!!

Incest and relationships between a minor and an adult turn up a lot, espescialy in shoujo manga. This could hurt creative freedom there easily.
It doesn't define "glorify or exaggerate", without that cleared up (in the law itself) it will stifle creative freedom.


The problem is that you can't define in a law precisely what is and what is not covered by it, because the penal code would become 10.000 pages thick. A relationship isn't a problem, as long as the sexual part of it is not the main focus of the manga and/or is not depicted in detail. This is how a judge, and a lawyer, would read this bill.

you can't define everything in a law, that is what judges are for.
And I am pretty sure fanservice won't fall under the new law either.
Lolicon smut (which I enjoy by the way but I am an adult =P) will fall under it, and hard-core hentai. But that is already regulated. I don't really understand why they are making this new law -- in practice it probably won't do much. (since the relationships you are talking about are sexually stimulating!)

If I were the PTA I wouldn't be happy with Ishihara's response about guys tough, which might fall under hate crime laws. (altough Freedom Of Speech tends to protect comments like that). but that's a different matter altogether...

Last of all, let's not forget that this law has a snowball's chance in hell of passing. the assembly voted it down last time, I don't see why they wouldn't vote it down this time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group