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ANNCast Holiday Special II Part One


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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:31 am Reply with quote
immortalrite wrote:
I was also surprised that Mushishi was on no one's list: hands down the best anime TV series I have seen to date.


Well my worst 3 movies were read, but not my top 3 anime, but rest assured Mushishi was on my top 3 under "Haibane Renmei" and "Eureka Seven".

I definitely agree on "Dreamcatcher", that movie was just plain awful. I'm surprised it was even able to take itself as serious as it did considering pretty much every concept present in the film is so laughably bad I don't see how the writers, actors or anyone involved could have possibly done their job without constantly chuckling at the sheer stupidity of what they were working on. I kind of tricked myself in to seeing it after getting a new appreciation for Kings work after watching the phenomenal film The Green Mile. Whether it's the story or just having a different direction on this project or a combination of the two, "Dreamcatcher" pretty much existed on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I also agreed with all of Zacs comments on "Alice in Wonderland". It was a favorite as a kid so I'm still waiting for the day they make an actual Alice film that actually tells the story instead of all of these re-imaginings and stylized renditions that anyone who touches that work in any genre does. There's been mini-series' and movies and shows and videogames and so on that has been based off of Alice and none of them really tell the story that Carroll told as he told it. One of these days they just need to do the man some justice and actually tell his story instead of their own version of it. I knew when Burton got attached that he was going to do what he did. I respect him for some of his better works ("Batman", "Nightmare Before Christmas", "Big Fish", etc.) but he has a tendency to place his style above substance in many situations, and that corrupted the substance in this film in my opinion.

In regards to why "The Good Shepherd" made my list, it's mostly because it's a chore to watch and really doesn't live up to the genre it was capitalizing on. It's a spy flick, but watching it is just painful, the story goes nowhere and it's progression is just sleep inducing. Every element of the story is a complete downer and there's no real payoff to capitalize on any of that build up. Then you had a few story elements that just went nowhere or felt like they didn't capitalize on them. It was just painfully disappointing in every way and I got no sense of enjoyment from even a second of that film. Heck, even the web it spun as a spy film is supposed to was largely transparent and uninteresting.
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nightjuan



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1473
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:38 am Reply with quote
Otaking09 wrote:

While I COMPLETELY agree with the fact Adachi recycles his storys into different ways(therefore capable of creating different stories/outcomes that way), I find that Cross Game accomplished more.
Both as a sports series that lets it's slice-of-life aspects take the spotlight, but not demote the importance and intensity of their baseball games, and for doing it ALL in just 50 eps.

And no, nightjuan, it's not a replacement.
Touch, IMO, was a series that actually got worse as it progressed. Not in a, "lack of quality" way, but in a "huh? What's this? I thought they'd be doing something different by now..." way.


That seems to be one way to put it.

Ironically, I almost wished Cross Game would have been a little longer, but it's not unreasonable to reach your conclusion instead. I'm still hoping to go back and see if this does or doesn't reflect my own final thoughts on the matter as far as Touch is concerned though, but it's probably worth keeping in mind.
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Copyrighted Name



Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 28
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:42 am Reply with quote
Yeah, Spider-Man 3 was pretty bad in retrospect.

I tried to watch the Star Wars prequels again recently (yes, we own them). Could not get through Episode I. Finished Episode II, but was very tempted to hit the fast-forward button numerous times. Episode III I got through okay.

I watched the Film Brain review for 10,000 B.C. on thatguywiththeglasses.com. I was astonished. It's bad even by Roland Emmerich standards.

*Sigh* M. Night Shyamalan. I hated, hated, hated The Village. It set up a fantastic premise and then flushed it all down the drain.

Anyone seen Exorcist II? It's the kind of disaster that has to be seen to be believed. Ridiculous story, ridiculous dialogue, and a ridiculous, ridiculous, ridiculous performance by Richard Burton. Smile
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tuxedocat



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2183
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:46 am Reply with quote
My heart got a little thrill when I heard that Baccano!! made Zac's list, and that Hikaru no Go made Justin's.

Listening to the podcast actually made me track down and order a copy of Please Save My Earth.

My Tops (series only):

1 - The Twelve Kingdoms
2 - Mushi Shi
3 - Natsume Yuujinchou
4 - Aria
5 - Baccano!!
6 - Le Chevalier D'eon
7 - Oh! Edo Rocket
8 - Cross Game
9 - Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam
10 - Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo

Worst 3 movies:

1 - Kazaam! - I actually felt sorry for Shaq. His image is forever tarnished in my mind.

2 - The Cat in the Hat - Mike Meyers poops on Seuss.

3 - The Postman - Kevin Costner. Cheesiest dialog ever.

Edited to add: When is someone ever going to license Only Yesterday? ...and I sure would like a legal way to view Legend of the Galactic Heroes
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bemused Bohemian



Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 404
Location: central Mizzou (Moral Oralville)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:15 am Reply with quote
Thanks for recommending the anime ONLY YESTERDAY. I had heard of it but was never curious enough to glance at this show until Justin gave it high marks on ANN CHS 2 pt1. I did find it on a fan site and watched it straight through. You are correct! This anime is very moving when the end credits are rolling and I had to force back tears of joy rooting for the main character's decision. This show will occupy 1 of my top 5 anime recommendations from this time forward.
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ZakuAce



Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 525
Location: SE Wisconsin
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:39 am Reply with quote
The King of Harts wrote:

EDIT: And then there was a slight pause after you read my list and said Kanon. Oh well, I'm sure a lot of people heard that and twinged.


Yep Mr. Green

Maybe I should actually use twitter so I know when stuff like this comes up.

I hate organizing shows in a list - I prefer to say here are 3 shows I love.
And those would be:

Black Lagoon
Gurren Lagann
Area 88 OAV

And by the way, I just hate The Room. Period. I don't find it amusing - there's maybe one thing I found funny. It's just bad and I never want to see it again. It's the worst movie I've ever seen.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:09 am Reply with quote
Really? Zac liked Baccano that much? Wow. I really need to get my butt in gear and watch it already.

Good to hear the Berserk anime get some love too. It's a fantastic show and too often it get dumped as perishable because of the animation or the ending or the manga being superior.

I so agree about Princess Mononoke. It's Miyazaki's best movie. Spirited Away is a really enjoyable movie but ultimately a bit of a hollow experience. I can't disagree more about the message though. To view it as a one sided, heavy handed pro-environmentalist message is to miss the subtlety and maturity that makes it great. That's where I see it as such a massive step up over the vastly more empty idealism of Nausicca.

Hooray! I made the list! P.S. I have to play the favourite =/= best card on Trigun. I'd say it's still top 10 in terms of best but definitely gets a big bump for me because I really just love it so much.

There's probably no single item I'd like to have more than the Japanese GitS BD boxed set. As much as I also like the SAC series I agree that the first movie is the pinnacle of the franchise.

Huh. I actually couldn't stand PSME. I admit I've only seen one episode but It just seems so utterly nonsensical.

Escaflowne is on top of my re-watch list. I saw it way way back when I was first getting into anime and moderately liked it but I have a strong suspicion that I'd really love it if I saw it again.

I just got Millennium Actress for $7 brand new on eBay. I don't think it's that hard to find.

Wow. I'm blown away that I haven't seen so many of the anime you guys listed. Mind you, about eight of them are on my awful shameful giant backlog list I desperately need to see. I'll go ahead and add Interstella 5555 and Kite to my list though.


Last edited by ikillchicken on Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nephtis



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 138
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:34 am Reply with quote
Most entertaining podcast from ANN in a while (not like the others were bad!) and great to see Justin back for a whole show.

It's great to get a quick run through of things I haven't seen or haven't given enough of a chance with...I'll have to check out some of this stuff.

As far as worst movies, the rule was not 'so bad it's good'...I have mixed feelings about Batman & Robin in this. I have no objection to anyone pointing out that it was a terrible film, but the horrid puns and zany visuals make me laugh. I actually was part of a group presentation in our screen criticism subject just finished...it was an interesting film to study. For me I guess when I saw it for the first time I thought it was cool, and in my defense I was too young to understand what a bad movie was. It was therefore of great interest to me to analyse why it was such a failure of a film.

Justin's discussion on Only Yesterday will force me to re-visit it, as I actually stopped watching it mid-way as it bored me to tears. Perhaps now with a few more years under my belt (and some cinema studies to boot) I may learn to appreciate it.

Thanks to both Zac and Justin for a highly entertaining listen with some titles to add to my 'to watch' list. Can't wait for next week's conclusion.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8458
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:30 am Reply with quote
I think Baccano's dub is brilliant. Easily one of the best English dubs of all time, and certainly Funimation's best. In fact, their only really truly excellent dub. Better than anything Coastal's done. Have you even heard their Fuma Conspiracy dub? I hope Kite's better than that. Wooden voice acting everywhere. The accents in Baccano are great.

But you know, as far as top 10, I can't possibly put TV series, OVAs, and movies in the same category. That is an extremely flawed system. Would you judge a live-action TV series and a movie in the exact same fashion? You wouldn't.

As I explained previously, I put TV series and multi-part OVAs in one category and movies, single-part movie-like OVAs and TV specials in the other. If I had to put everything in a single category, I could never make a proper list.

Cowboy Bebop doesn't leave a lasting impression? It's way more impactful than the other titles on Zac and Justin's list. Every time I watch it it's like it's new and I say to myself, "This is why anime is great." There is such genius to parts of it. Baccano and Ghost in the Shell are just sort of, "This is fun, but not really groundbreaking." You really rate Interstella 5555 over Cowboy Bebop? Don't make me laugh. It's a cute musical with some great music, but there's nothing that stellar about it. It's not even Matsumoto's best. Don't bust me up with your "Cowboy Bebop doesn't leave an impression." Tell me about a scene in Interestalla 5555 that will stay with you forever. For me, it's none of them.

Also, I've found Spirited Away to be superior to Princess Mononoke. There's something about the setting and the themes that sort of give me this sense of nostalgia for my childhood and touches me. Princess Mononoke was an excellent movie, but Spirited Away really touched me.

ESCA-FLOW-NAY, damn it. It's pronounced the same way in both Japanese and English version. I swear Zac is the only person I've ever heard to mispronounce it. Ever. And the film? Really? Everything is so rushed. A couple of scenes after Van threatens to kill Hitomi, she is practically declaring her love for him. The climax is ridiculous.

You really need to get into Brotherhood. Roy Mustang's story arc is more fulfilling in it. I personally have no preference between the two shows, but many character backgrounds in Brotherhood are richer, more fleshed out, and characters like Roy get much stronger character arcs. In fact, often to the detriment of Ed and Al's story, which is why I don't think of it as a superior show.

I love that Paranoia Agent opening, too. Really gets you going. I've heard it was done purposely because it aired late at night. But that could just be plain rumor.

It's a crime for Legend of the Galactic Heroes to not be on either of your lists. Did you not finish watching it? It's an undeniable masterpiece. I felt like I'd just read a great series of books after watching it.

For your information:

TV Series/Multipart OVAs:

1) Cowboy Bebop
2) Legend of the Galactic Heroes
3) Fullmetal Alchemist & Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood (TIE)

If I were a little more reasonable, LoGH would be on top, but there's just something about Bebop. And don't say it's nostalgia. It's not.

Movies/Single Part OVAs/TV Specials:

1) Wings of the Honneamise
2) Spirited Away
3) Cowboy Bebop: Knockin' on Heaven's Door

The Bebop movie was #1 for a while, but I realized that despite the great execution, for the most part it was a pretty straight-forward action movie. Wings of the Honneamise may have some dull moments, but I just think it's a brilliant work that makes you feel like you just watched something important at the end.

As far as bad live-action movies? I don't know. I've seen shitty movies, but the shittiest movies I don't even recall, I just block them out of my memory. The bad movies I remember are the ones that are disappointing or are popularly bad, or that just pissed me off so much I couldn't forget them. Like Signs (Signs does NOT have its moments, it's a lame, predictable, poorly writen and poorly acted movie), The Last Airbender, Batman and Robin, or Dude, Where's My Car?. Ninety percent of Adam Sandler or Eddie Murphy movies. Any parody movie made after the 90s. Most Nicholas Cage movies. Most Kevin Costner movies. Are there worst movies? Of course. I've probably seen them. But I've forgotten because they were just "bad" and not "maddening". Something that disappoints or baffles is much more memorable than something that's just plain bad.

I guess I shouldn't expect much from Adam Sandler anymore, though. Well, Funny People was decent.


Also, Zac. The church scene in Spider-Man 3 is essentially the scene in the comic books where Venom was created.


Last edited by penguintruth on Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:27 am; edited 2 times in total
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_Emi_



Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 498
Location: Langjökull
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:09 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
I so agree about Princess Mononoke. It's Miyazaki's best movie. Spirited Away is a really enjoyable movie but ultimately a bit of a hollow experience. I can't disagree more about the message though. To view it as a one sided, heavy handed pro-environmentalist message is to miss the subtlety and maturity that makes it great. That's where I see it as such a massive step up over the vastly more empty idealism of Nausicca.

Out of Miyazaki's movies that I've seen (haven't seen Kiki's Delivery Service or Ponyo), Princess Mononoke is my favorite and I highly doubt the two I haven't seen are going to change that. To me it's Nausicaa that is a one sided, heavy handed pro-environmentalist message and, boy, was that ending lame. I was left looking at the screen thinking to myself, "That's it?". It felt like it was building up to so much more, especially with the god warrior. And Nausicaa's Mary-Sueness grated on me a bit. I found PM to much more even handed with Lady Eboshi and San not being a Mary-Sue. The Deer God was beautiful.

penguintruth wrote:
I love that Paranoia Agent opening, too. Really gets you going. I've heard it was done purposely because it aired late at night. But that could just be plain rumor.

It isn't. Kon himself stated it was done to wake people up in one of the episode commentary's.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:38 am Reply with quote
Random thought that just occurred to me: I'm a bit disapointed to not see anyone mention Jin-Roh. There's another movie that'd definitely be in my top 5.

_Emi_ wrote:
The Deer God was beautiful.


Another good point in favour of Princess Mononoke. I don't think I've seen a movie better personify nature in all it's facets. From the sheer majestic beauty of the Forrest God to the noble and yet vicious wolves and the sheer blind avalanche of strength of the old boar. It's really fantastic.
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ittoujuu



Joined: 25 Sep 2009
Posts: 164
Location: SoCal
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:40 am Reply with quote
I really enjoyed this episode; it embodies what's infectiously fun about getting into a heated, opinionated debate about either things your really love, or things you really hate (while still being cordial about it). That's the real fan spirit, especially in describing things you like - when one has the ardor to put their heart out there and say "This work was powerful, it really changed me." Perhaps in the way we appreciate a story or entertainment, or in the way we perceive the world, others, or ourselves. For something created as a piece of entertainment to do that is a wonderful thing, and I know we all have our series.

I'm not that well-viewed in terms of movies, but I still enjoyed the ragging on those too, especially given that Justin and Zac are film-savvy folk. It's also interesting that being fans of film, and having come up through that line of study, both anime lists were pretty favorable to animated film-length pictures. I came up through the literature line of study, and aside from maybe a favorite representative work of Miyazaki or something like that, I wouldn't rank theatrical films in a top 10 list, because in terms of raw development they just can't compete against a good TV series, even though they may be more cinematically sophisticated and generally have better animation. Maybe it's weird of me to think that "anime films aren't actually a good representational cross-section of what anime is all about," but...eh, it takes all kinds.

Looking forward to next week's episode!
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Penguin_Factory



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 732
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:21 am Reply with quote
I listened to this episode twice in a row. That's how good it is.

Here's my personal list:


10 Paranoia Agent
9- The Girl Who Leapt Through Time
8- Ghost Hound
7- Mushishi
6- Evangelion 2.0
5- Figure 17
4- Millennium Actress
3- RahXephon
2- Habaine Renmei
1- Spirited Away

Only Yesterday is one of those movies that's been on my "must-watch" list for years. There's an R2 DVD that I even saw in a shop once, but like most anime films over here it's expensive enough that I can never justify the purchase.

I've been reluctant to talk at length about this on the interwebs, but since the issue of Spirited Away vs Princess Mononoke came up, and it features in so many people's lists..... I didn't like Princess Mononoke. And I don't just mean I didn't care much for it. I mean the last third of the movie bored me to the point that I didn't think I was going to be able to keep going.

I'm not just one of those people who likes to slag off famous movies either. After seeing Spirited Away I sat down to watch Mononoke fully expecting a masterpiece. Maybe my expectations were too high? I can't even fully articulate what it was that bored me so much about it either. I just didn't engage with the plot or characters.

I've always been curious, since the movie seems to get universal praise: Did anyone else have the same reaction?

Anyway, here's three terrible movies:

3 Spun
2 Meet The Spartans
1 Ultraviolet

(If you've never heard of Spun before, don't bother changing that situation. Ignorance is bliss).

I'm frankly surprised Meet The Spartans doesn't feature on more lists like this. I saw that on a plane with no sound and I could tell just from looking at it that it was one of the worst movies I've ever seen.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:03 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
ESCA-FLOW-NAY, damn it. It's pronounced the same way in both Japanese and English version.

THANK YOU! It annoys me when people don't correctly pronounce a name that is repeated ad nauseum in a show (looking at you "Last Airbender"), but it's absolutely ridiculous for someone who calls it one of their top ten to do it to the title of said show. I don't even LIKE the show and I know the title. The "Ne" is right there in the kana and "n" is the ONLY consonant in the entire Japanese language that you can have WITHOUT a vowel, and it's STILL: EscaflowNE, not Escaflown.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23669
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:44 am Reply with quote
Aw, no Shinkai love from Zac or Justin, eh? Oh well, he's certainly not to everybody's taste. I would agree the story of 5 Centimeter Per Second is simple (although I would argue the end is somewhat obtuse) but I don't think of that in a pejorative sense the way Justin obviously does. There is a tonal aspect to Shinkai's films that I really vibe on even though it is not a particularly comfortable one. For me, his films are suffused with a sense of bittersweet yearning that he amplifies with a masterful use of light and Tenmon's music.

So... so... EFF YOU, JUSTIN - EFF YOU, MAN!!! Wink

But yeah, great 'cast (although I only listened to the anime stuff).
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