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Inverted Korean names


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Shiroi Hane
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 7578
Location: Wales
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:23 pm Reply with quote
Am I correct in thinking that the entirety of the Korean cast for
Lucky Star has been entered backwards? If so this is not something I would look forward to correcting since all but one of them have multiple other roles, some of them quite many.
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dormcat
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Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9902
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:31 am Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:
Am I correct in thinking that the entirety of the Korean cast for Lucky Star has been entered backwards? If so this is not something I would look forward to correcting since all but one of them have multiple other roles, some of them quite many.

Looks like that's the case. You knew who did it and you had warned that user (sigh). Rolling Eyes

That's a common problem of those who copied info verbatim from Wikipedia, which has a policy of listing East Asian names in their original order. However, Wiki doesn't have separate and automatically-generated lists of first/last names but we do, thus entering the name with Western order is a must at ANN.
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Shiroi Hane
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:21 am Reply with quote
Actually, these weren't entered by our Korean friend who made a mess of the Lucky Star animation credits (and dear oh dead, it looks like I either didn't finish straightening them out or they added more afterwards - need to dig out my LS DVDs but transcribing manually takes forever when you can't read many Kanji) and they actually are sourced, but entered verbatim.
What I also failed to determine yesterday was the Korean licensee; it doesn't appear to be the same company who is publishing the manga ( Daewon Media).
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Shiroi Hane
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:07 pm Reply with quote
Speaking of Korean names...
animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?ln=yeon

pretty much all these backwards cast members seem to have been entered by one person, sourced from bestanime.co.kr (which seems to be down at present). If you don't know how Korean names work, why mine Korean sites? Rolling Eyes
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dormcat
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:22 pm Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:
If you don't know how Korean names work, why mine Korean sites? Rolling Eyes

That applies to Japanese and Chinese as well; you and I have witnessed tons of similar examples over the decade (shrug). Rolling Eyes

BTW, well-done in that Madoka thread.
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Dan42
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 3780
Location: Montreal
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:29 pm Reply with quote
Those Korean names aren't fixed yet right? If so I can change them directly, just give me the list of what to fix. And this goes for any inverted names, Korean or Japanese or other.

Bae Jeongmi ?
Bang Uho ?
Gang Sujin ?
Ha Migyeong ?
Hong Huisuk ?
Im Juhyeon ?
Jeong Jaeheon ?
Jeong Yumi ?
Kim Jeonga ?
Lee Gyuseok ?
Lee Minha ?
Park Jiyun ?
Park Sinhui ?
Park Sora ?
Ryu Jeomhui ?
Si Yeongjun ?
Yeo Minjeong ?
Yu Jiwon ?
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Shiroi Hane
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:25 pm Reply with quote
I've forgotten a lot of what I learned about Korean names.
Park, Lee and Kim are (usually?) surnames - it helps when you have the double first name since that makes it clearer, although all the ones in that list seem to be merged (I think Jeongmi should be Jeong-Mi, following Dormcat's stated preference for example).
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Shiroi Hane
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
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Location: Wales
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:01 pm Reply with quote
I would like a list of names that can ONLY by surnames. I know Park, Lee and Kim are usually surnames, but I don't know it they always are. If anyone happens to have such a list... Wikipedia has http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Korean_family_names

If it has a hyphen, or is in two parts, then it is a given name.
E.g: YEON-SUK, Na is clearly incorrect.

The two given names are often given merged into one, but by the same token the shorter name is then most likely to be the family name since it has only one component.

E.g: YEONGCHAN, Kim should be KIM, Yeong-Chan

I think all the the names we have under the Yeon search I posted earlier are incorrect, even ones where the name format is correct like YEON, Kim So - it has the "double barrel" part as the given name which is correct, but Kim is almost certainly the family name so the given name should be Yeon-So or So-Yeon (the former?).

To avoid re-treading and since I know we've discussed Korean names elsewhere I'm trying to locate some other threads.

General:
Name reading assistance (more on the next page also)
Duplicate Persons [p. 66] (See also reply on next page)
Cleanup required for Aquarian Age TV

Specific errors
[todo] Name correction #79163
[todo] Name correction 'Seion KOU' #79164
[WiP] Jin Hwan SUNG (#53182) = Tamaki SŌSHIN (#80635) ?
Kim KAN-JUN (#86684)

(in the words of Doc Emmett Brown, OUTATIME)
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DerekTheRed



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:40 pm Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:
(in the words of Doc Emmett Brown, OUTATIME)


I endorse this message.
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Devil Doll



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 656
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:04 pm Reply with quote
Bae Jeongmi (배정미) Bae, Jeong-Mi
Bang Uho (방우호) Bang, Wu-Ho
Gang Sujin (강수진) Gang, Su-Jin
Ha Migyeong (하미경) Ha, Mi-Gyeong
Hong Huisuk (홍희숙) Hong, Hui-Suk
Im Juhyeon (임주현) Im, Ju-Hyeon
Jeong Jaeheon (정재헌) Jeong, Jae-Heon
Jeong Yumi (정유미) Jeong, Yu-Mi
Kim Jeonga (김정아) Kim, Jeong-A
Lee Gyuseok (이규석) Lee, Gyu-Seok
Lee Minha (이민하) Lee, Min-Ha
Park Jiyun (박지윤) Park, Ji-Yun
Park Sinhui (박신희) Park, Sin-Hui
Park Sora (박소라) Park, So-Ra
Ryu Jeomhui (류점희) Ryu, Jeom-Hui
Si Yeongjun (시영준) Si, Yeong-Jun
Yeo Minjeong (여민정) Yeo, Min-Jeong
Yu Jiwon (유지원) Yu, Ji-Won
In all cases, the romanizations have been taken from the source of some main credit, all from http://bestanime.co.kr/ , which are the pages of the respective anime there.
The pages I linked to in this posting are the seiyuu's page there, most of which contain even an image of the person.
The hyphens are inserted by me; I did translate the hangul with Google Translate (which is much better for hangul than for kanji because hangul aren't ambiguous) to double-check the syllable order. But you can see even here how all Jeong, Lee and Park begin with the same first hangul, how the hangul for Bang and Gang resemble each other, how the hangul for Wu, Su and Ju resemble each other etc.

Note that there are different romanizations for Korean names as well; I didn't try to check whether the names above are normalized in any way, I just validated their romanized name against the romanized form given by their sources (which has the same notation as ANN except for one case where the source even has the hyphen).
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Dan42
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:01 pm Reply with quote
Done fixing all the names. I've also added a new report: Possibly inverted family names
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Shiroi Hane
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 7578
Location: Wales
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:37 pm Reply with quote
Thanks for that.

I've tracked down the errors I discovered when working on the Highlander credits:
animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=864416#864416

This computer doesn't do Hangul...

(got sniped by Dan. I was replying to DD, but thanks to Dan too)
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Devil Doll



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 656
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:22 pm Reply with quote
The report is interesting but shows names such as "Doga" and "Henshushitsu" which are most likely companies rather than persons and should get a separate treatment.
And you might want to set persons with 0 credits in italics.

Of the "Kim" in this report, there are probably about 90% in the wrong order (except non-Korean names such as "Kim Dent-Wilder" etc.) but what would be required to give you a "proof"? Most of the low-level animators have likely been credited in romanized form, not telling us the order of the name parts even when we look at the original video.

Then again, some sources might provide the hyphen as part of the given names which didn't make it into ANN's database. I just ran into an example at D2_STATION:
Kim MI SUK => Kim Mi-Suk
Would this suffice as proof for triggering a renaming of this person?

This same source page provides hyphens for:And this was just one episode...


What about a report of all persons with "bestanime.co.kr" being substring of some credit source AND having no hyphen in their given name? These should be easy to validate and "hyphenize". I'll try a few:

Kim BYEONGGWAN 김병관 Kim, Byeong-Gwan
Kim EUNA (1) 김은아 (1) Kim, Eun-A (apparently one of several seiyuu with this name)
Kim GWANJIN 김관진 Kim, Gwan-Jin
Kim SEHAN 김세한 Kim, Se-Han
Kim JEONGEUN 김정은 (S) Kim, Jeong-Eun (apparently "the seiyuu", disambiguated from another person of the same name?)
Kim YONGSIK 김용식 Kim, Yong-Sik
Kim RAEHWAN 김래환 Kim, Rae-Hwan
Kim SEONGYEON 김성연 Kim, Seong-Yeon
Kim DAEJUNG 김대중 (S) Kim, Dae-Jung (apparently "the seiyuu", disambiguated from another person of the same name?)
Kim IKTAE 김익태 Kim, Ik-Tae
Kim HYOSEON 김효선 Kim, Hyo-Seon
Kim SUNYEONG 김순영 Kim, Sun-Yeong
Kim HOSEONG 김호성 Kim, Ho-Seong
Kim DUHUI 김두희 Kim, Du-Hui
With bestanime.co.kr being used as source for so many seiyuu, are Encyclopedists able to identify these contributors and give them a heads-up about name order at ANN? It would certainly be preferable to create the persons in the correct name order, right?

Google Translate's romanization feature (below the input form) does a pretty good job for the individual hangul, using the revised romanization (in which "김" has the reading "Gim" instead of "Kim"). ANN contributors apparently use "revised" in most cases, at least for the given name, thus "Gim" might actually be preferable to "Kim"... hm. But I'm only guessing here.

My Firefox browser displays this page with character encoding "Unicode" and handles both kanji and hangul. Did you install "East Asian language support" on your PC, Shiroi Hane?


Last edited by Devil Doll on Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Shiroi Hane
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:17 am Reply with quote
Devil Doll wrote:
Most of the low-level animators have likely been credited in romanized form, not telling us the order of the name parts even when we look at the original video.

But, they are usually credited in a block and all in the same order. Lee, Kim and Park being the most common Korean surnames there is usually enough data to infer the order being used (or at least, which end the family name is at).

Quote:
My Firefox browser displays this page with character encoding "Unicode" and handles both kanji and hangul. Did you install "East Asian language support" on your PC, Shiroi Hane?

Not my PC, no admin access. Depends where I am posting from.
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Devil Doll



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 656
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:03 pm Reply with quote
I consider both a hyphen in the given name and a hangul name better quality, so let's begin with these, they are quite a lot and may significantly change the results of Dan42's probability logic already.

What about an additional report listing all persons with a hyphen in their family name? It should be possible to identify the Koreans amongst them, and reverse their name order.

More bestanime.co.kr seiyuu: (all names to be reversed)
Kim TAEHUN 김태훈 Kim, Tae-Hun
Kim HYEONJIK 김현직 Kim, Hyeon-Jik
Kim JEONGHO 김정호 Kim, Jeong-Ho
Kim SEOYEONG 김서영 Kim, Seo-Yeong
Kim JANG 김장 Kim, Jang
Kim GIHEUNG 김기흥 Kim, Gi-Hyeung
Kim MINSEOK 김민석 Kim, Min-Seok
Kim GWANCHEOL 김관철 Kim, Gwan-Cheol
Kim SAEHAE 김새해 Kim, Sae-Hae
Kim GYUSIK 김규식 Kim, Gyu-Sik
Kim IL 김일 Kim, Il
Kim WUJEONG 김우정 Kim, Wu-Jeong
Kim NAYEON 김나연 Kim, Na-Yeon
Kim YEONGCHAN 김영찬 Kim, Yeong-Chan
Kim SEONGHUI 김성희 Kim, Seong-Hui
Kim BOYEONG 김보영 Kim, Bo-Yeong
Kim GWANGGUK 김광국 Kim, Gwang-Guk
Kim AYEONG 김아영 Kim, A-Yeong
Kim CHANGYEOL 김창열 Kim, Chang-Yeol
Kim EUNA (2) 김은아 Kim, Eun-A (2) (two seiyuu of this name)
Kim GANGSUN 김강산 Kim, Gang-San (English pronunciation issue?)
Kim GANGSAN 김강산 Kim, Gang-San (the correct one)
Kim GICHEOL 김기철 Kim, Gi-Cheol
Kim GIHYEON 김기현 Kim, Gi-Hyeon
Kim GUKJIN 김국진 Kim, Guk-Jin
Kim HYEONJI 김현지 Kim, Hyeon-Ji
Kim HUISEON 김희선 Kim, Hui-Seon
Kim HUIYEONG 김희영 Kim, Hui-Yeong
Kim HWANJIN 김환진 Kim, Hwan-Jin
Kim HYEJU 김혜주 Kim, Hye-Ju
Kim HYEONSIM 김현심 Kim, Hyeon-Sim
Kim YEONGSEON 김영선 Kim, Yeong-Seon
Kim YEONGEUN 김영은 Kim, Yeong-Eun
Kim JEONGAE 김정애 Kim, Jeong-Ae
Kim JIHYE 김지혜 Kim, Ji-Hye
Kim JUN 김준 (S) Kim, Jun ("the seiyuu")
Kim JIYEONG 김지영 Kim, Ji-Yeong
Kim MINJEONG 김민정 Kim, Min-Jeong
Kim OKGYEONG 김옥경 Kim, Ok-Gyeong
Kim PILJIN 김필진 Kim, Pil-Jin
Kim SEONHUI 김선희 Kim, Seon-Hui
Kim SEONHYE 김선혜 Kim, Seon-Hye
Kim SEUNGJUN 김승준 Kim, Seung-Jun
Kim SEUNGTAE 김승태 Kim, Seung-Tae
Kim SOHYEONG 김소형 Kim, So-Hyeong
Kim SUGYEONG 김수경 Kim, Su-Gyeong
Kim SUJUNG 김수중 Kim, Su-Jung
Kim TAEWUNG 김태웅 Kim, Tae-Wung
Kim YUL 김율 Kim, Yul
Kim YEONGJIN 김영진 Kim, Yeong-Jin
Kim YONGJUN 김용준 Kim, Yong-Jun
The tricky thing about bestanime.co.kr is that they have Japanese seiyuu names in western order but Korean seiyuu names in eastern order (which may have confused the people who were "mining" this site).

Dan, there are quite a few URLs of the schema
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_26qPlAmnJ4J:bestanime.co.kr/newAniData/aniInfo.php%3Fidx%3D321%26subPageType%3Dcharacter+http://bestanime.co.kr/newAniData/aniInfo.php%3Fidx%3D321%26subPageType%3Dcharacter&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
as source for Korean seiyuu which I can't use in my browser because they're already URLencoded, thus making any URLhacking pretty bothersome. Do you see any chance to automatically restore the original URL from these (marked in boldface)?


A Korean staff credited via hanja:
Kim HAE SOOK: 金 海淑 = KIM, Hae-Sook (김해숙)

Non-Korean Kim:
Kim NYUGEN is probably a spelling error of Kim NGUYEN (both seiyuu in English versions; Nguyen is the most common Vietnamese surname). Note there's also Kim Mai NGUYEN, also seiyuu for English versions, which may well be the same person.
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