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Francesca9109



Joined: 24 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:57 pm Reply with quote
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I've got a question about Hataraki Man. The databases I've checked say that it's still publishing, but Amazon Japan only has up to volume 4 (which was released way back in '07). Is the series on hiatus or something?


To be honest, I think the author cancelled the series in Japan. I'm not sure if Kodansha Usa would want to pick up a series that's not finished? I would buy all the volumes, anyway.
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Francesca9109



Joined: 24 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:02 pm Reply with quote
Quote:

Personally, I can't wait to release more Moyoco. And I don't think fans will have to wait too long for more. But that talk is for another thread.
Wink


I can't wait for that announcement!! I bet it's awesome!
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marie-antoinette
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Joined: 18 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:28 pm Reply with quote
ZepysGirl wrote:
marie-antoinette: Thanks for the news source, but yeah, don't think I'll be suggesting that one. ._. Maybe once she's finished the series.


You're very welcome. And yeah, I'd definitely at least hold off on it until she works on it and releases another volume or two because, even though it does interest me, I definitely wouldn't buy something that I knew had no ending (this is the main reason that X/1999 is not on my shelves, though I'll admit the new Viz release is tempting).

Looking at all the titles I want, I keep coming across Shogakukan. As I mentioned in one of the Vertical threads, we need Viz to do one of these polls! Really happy to see Vertical and Kodansha doing them though Smile

Also, I like that theory, Princess Irene. It's definitely true for me. I'm 27 (almost 28!) and it's always a thrill to see a series that has characters who are closer to my age, though a good high school story can still be quite fun.
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ZepysGirl



Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Posts: 469
Location: NY, NY

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:10 am Reply with quote
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:
Edit: I just read through that the thread that Chihayafuru is too estoric? Um what. I honestly think publishers are too short sighted. They license all these junky manga titles but they can't license something with a well regarded anime adaption. Huh?

On another popular anime board I frequent Chihayafuru is being voted best series of the year (and it is not just female voters)

Esoteric? Maybe publishers should have more faith in their readers. The series is not that hard to understand. (please note: I know the person who started the thread is not saying this but people at Kodansha)

Well, seeing as I am at Kodansha (read: Random House) and I do happen to agree with their reasoning, it is kinda directed at me, now isn't it. :/

You want more reasons for why no Chihayafuru? It's 19 volumes long and still ongoing. That puts it way out of my interest range already, honestly. And it's josei, the lack of which we have been complaining about just a little ago up-thread. And that "lack of josei"? Only came about because most josei titles don't do well over here. So now, picture this: how am I supposed to pitch a series that is way longer than what we'd normally be comfortable with, in a demographic that traditionally sells worse than any of the others, and is about a subject completely alien to most American readers? I understand that it's a very popular show among a certain set, but that doesn't automatically translate into sales. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be rude here, but there are many more series that don't have those same challenges that I would rather focus on.

Francesca9109 wrote:
I'm not sure if Kodansha Usa would want to pick up a series that's not finished? I would buy all the volumes, anyway.

Yeah, I don't see why we'd be interested in a forever-unfinished series (I certainly am not with my list). It would be like opening the door for more fans to complain about us "not finishing things." Laughing I've seen enough people blaming Viz for not "finishing" Nana or yeah, even x/1999. Rolling Eyes

Vertical_Ed wrote:
Personally, I can't wait to release more Moyoco. And I don't think fans will have to wait too long for more. But that talk is for another thread.

Color me excited. Smile I bought Sakuran at NYCC; I'm glad to see it's doing well. More Moyoco Anno would be very welcome on my bookshelf!

marie-antoinette wrote:
Looking at all the titles I want, I keep coming across Shogakukan. As I mentioned in one of the Vertical threads, we need Viz to do one of these polls! Really happy to see Vertical and Kodansha doing them though

Viz did do a poll! Sorta. About a week ago, the Shojo Beat facebook page asked their fans what series they'd like to see licensed. (My only suggestion was "More Kaori Yuki, please and thank you" Anime hyper) Now we just need Yen to run one, so I can bombard them with "PLEASE GIMME KINGDOM HEARTS! I WILL LOVE YOU FOREVER~"


Last edited by ZepysGirl on Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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marie-antoinette
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:35 am Reply with quote
Excellent, thanks for the link! I got to make my Ai Yazawa and Yuu Watase requests (specifically Kagen no Tsuki and Sakura Gari respectively), because anything by them I will absolutely buy.
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iunnohead



Joined: 23 Apr 2012
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:24 am Reply with quote
I've got a suggestions for you.

You guys should pick up Shiki. The anime series was released in America last year, but I think that getting the manga series of it as well would be great! It's only 11 volumes long, and it's a great blend of mystery/suspense/horror.
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 1749

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:56 am Reply with quote
ZepysGirl wrote:

Well, seeing as I am at Kodansha (read: Random House) and I do happen to agree with their reasoning, it is kinda directed at me, now isn't it. :/


I know you work at Kodansha, my comment was directed towards your company not at you personally. There is a difference.

You said Kodansha said Chihayafuru is "too estoric" and that is what I was responding to. You said you agree, well I disagree. Sure I am not saying it's going to have extreme mainstream appeal but guess what most series don't. That doesn't mean it won't have an audience (as the anime shows). It has a well regarded anime adaption & it's an award winning series in Japan.

Estoric means only a certain subset of people will enjoy it. But who is that? People who are interested in Karuta, Japanese poetry? Most people I know who started to follow the series were not interested in these things at all (myself included) & only became interested because of the series. But hey I can say that about a lot of things in manga & anime as a lot of stuff isn't initially familiar to a Western audience. The story of course isn't just about Karuta & poems, it has engaging characters & a moving story. But of course that last part is just opinion.

As for Josei not selling well I don't really see that many josei licensed in the first place.

As for your other reasoning it being too long well that is not what you initially said. I guess it's too bad that longer series can't be picked up, it certainly limits the choices (I mean it's not like we are talking One Piece long here). I guess Space Brothers is out too than. I know one of my main reasons for wanting to buy manga is because the anime I enjoy might not finish the story. I hardly become interested in titles otherwise unless I know the manga-ka's other works.

Sorry I don't mean to rant in a request thread I am just disappointed.


Last edited by Maidenoftheredhand on Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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RAmmsoldat



Joined: 19 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:50 am Reply with quote
Gotta sympathize that anything the fans suggest has to be an easy sell because it seems to me that even the manga that sells well is only regarded as selling so-so in the grand scheme of things.

Im not sure how Hikaru no go sold but it seemed to be quite popular and Id say that one was esoteric but was still enjoyable. I liked it and i still don't have a clue how Go is played lol.
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S.U.N.



Joined: 30 Mar 2011
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:43 am Reply with quote
iunnohead wrote:
I've got a suggestions for you.

You guys should pick up Shiki. The anime series was released in America last year, but I think that getting the manga series of it as well would be great! It's only 11 volumes long, and it's a great blend of mystery/suspense/horror.


As much as would like that too, unfortunately, last I checked it ran in Jump SQ -> Shueisha -> you need to ask VIZ for that.

Now as for my suggestions/wishes:

Historie, Shoukoku no Altair, Cesare - cause I'm a sucker for the historical setting and the further in the past the better

Again!! - It's a high school shounen/comedy about cheering and really interesting/unusual

Blazer Drive, Kurenai no Ookami to Ashikase no Hitsuji - Both shounen by Kishimoto Seish
While Blazer Drive is short and has an refreshing concept, Kurenai no Ookami to Ashikase no Hitsuji has a bizarre red riding hood theme going on in a supernatural/fantasy high school setting (really interesting)

Witchcraft Works - Supernatural Seinen/Comedy about a normal weak male high school student who is hunted by witches for some reason and must constantly be saved by his tall/intelligent/beautiful female classmate who herself is a ridiculously strong witch. Also, the art is gorgeous.

Youkai Apato no Yuuga na Nichijou - shounen about a poor high school student who ended up moving into a youkai haunted dormitory (most economic solution). After the "culture shock" it's about the interaction between him and those youkai residents and their stories. Sort of a supernatural slice of life with nice art.

Bakuon Rettou - A Yankee manga about a slightly problematic high school boy joining a biker gang.

What Did You Eat Yesterday? - mentioned before and seems interesting.

All Rounder Meguru - Yeah..., I know, Martial Arts/Sports manga. But I can't help mentioning it since I like it so much.
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marie-antoinette
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:39 am Reply with quote
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:
That doesn't mean it won't have an audience (as the anime shows). It has a well regarded anime adaption & it's an award winning series in Japan.


The problem is that people who say they will buy something don't always actually do so. I think if we really expect Chihayafuru to come over here, we at least need someone to try licensing the anime, as I'm pretty sure anime does ultimately outsell manga most of the time, at least outside of Japan. So I definitely don't expect to see this one over here until there is a release of the anime beyond Crunchyroll.

Of course, one of the reasons I think Princess Jellyfish has gotten such traction as a suggestion is that there was enough demand for it to get a DVD/Bluray release. Granted, I don't know how well said release sold but if the numbers were there, then it becomes less of a risk to bring the manga over, especially considering it is shorter, at least at the moment.

Obviously it is disappointing that Chihayafuru's chances don't look all that good at the moment but from a business standpoint, it makes sense.
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1055

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:11 am Reply with quote
I hate to but into this conversation, but I don't think it's fair for this one intern to have to be continually stuck with explaining why Chihayafuru won't be licensed.

Maidenoftheredhand wrote:
You said Kodansha said Chihayafuru is "too estoric" and that is what I was responding to. You said you agree, well I disagree. Sure I am not saying it's going to have extreme mainstream appeal but guess what most series don't. That doesn't mean it won't have an audience (as the anime shows). It has a well regarded anime adaption & it's an award winning series in Japan.


What I bolded doesn't mean crap outside of Japan. Just because it's highly praised doesn't mean that it will sell outside of Japan. In fact, the anime outright bombed in Japan, and is only getting a second season because it helped manga sales out. The fact that no anime licensor has picked up the anime yet, even though it is well regarded, shows that it is a niche product. And, really, I don't think anyone was giving indication of Chihayafuru being a mainstream hit. Sure, it has an audience, but what guarantee do you have that that very audience is big enough to support a physical release? It could very well be that it's a vocal audience, but not a big one in any way. Hell, One Piece is THE manga in Japan, yet here it's popularity varies anywhere from #2-#10.

And, really, don't bring up the award-winning aspect. If award-winning in Japan truly meant anything here, then why don't we have titles like Giant Killing, Ace of the Diamond, Big Windup!, Princess Jellyfish, or Capeta, all of which won the same Kodansha Manga Award as Chihayafuru (in either the same category or a different one)? Does being award-winning help? Sure, in a promotional way, but I think it's ability in bumping up sales is essentially negligible in North America.

Quote:
Estoric means only a certain subset of people will enjoy it. But who is that? People who are interested in Karuta, Japanese poetry? Most people I know who started to follow the series were not interested in these things at all (myself included) & only became interested because of the series. But hey I can say that about a lot of things in manga & anime as a lot of stuff isn't initially familiar to a Western audience. The story of course isn't just about Karuta & poems, it has engaging characters & a moving story. But of course that last part is just opinion.


What "escoteric" audience would be interested in Chihayafuru, you ask? People who are willing to watch or read a story about people who play a card game based around Japanese poetry. Do you have to be previously interested in karuta to check out Chihayafuru? No, but that very aspect is enough to turn off enough people to make "esoteric" a proper description. People like foreign stuff, yes, but there is a point where the "foreign-ness" of something turns a good portion of those people away, and karuta is definitely one of those things.

Quote:
As for Josei not selling well I don't really see that many josei licensed in the first place.


It's called "testing the waters" as well as being a catch-22: Josei was tested by a few publishers, and none of them were all that great sellers, which meant that less josei would end up being licensed. Why continue to license a lot of something that's known to be a poor seller? Sure, a title or two in that poor-selling niche is okay on occasion, simply to fulfill that niche & maybe get some new fans in if you're lucky, but if josei has never sold well over here then why should licensors get more of it in the first place?

Quote:
As for your other reasoning it being too long well that is not what you initially said.


No, ZepysGirl definitely stated a length restriction in the very first post:
Quote:
3. I am not looking for older "classics," series that are very long (let's put a cap at 20 volumes, okay?), or sports series.


Look, I'm not against the licensing of Chihayafuru; in fact, if it was licensed I would probably get it simply because of the praise it has received. But at the same time if someone who is actually working in the industry is bringing up perfectly valid points as a counter-argument, then it's kind of silly to try to prove them wrong. They have a lot of information that we don't due to NDA's & the like, so it's a pretty hard, if not nigh-impossible, fight to win. You can try to influence them to try something different, but if they have good reasons to say "No", then that's all there is to it. In fact, I wish more companies would say "No" to the fans when it comes license requests; one of the reasons why I really like talking with Ed Chavez is because of his honesty, even if it's not an answer I'll like. He treats fans like me with enough respect to tell it like it is, & in turn I respect him & it makes me think of other stuff to request.

Just face it: Chihayafuru may be loved & praised, but the way it tells its story, though a card game revolving around Japanese poetry, makes it extremely hard to sell in North America; so hard that it will likely bomb if licensed. The fact that the manga is also reaching 20 volumes, with no indication of ending anytime soon, also hurts its chances as well. Does that mean it might never be licensed? I can't say, but the chances are definitely on the very low side.
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ZepysGirl



Joined: 14 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:49 am Reply with quote
Quote:
As for Josei not selling well I don't really see that many josei licensed in the first place.


It's kind of a vicious cycle. Josei doesn't do so well, so josei titles are only licensed very rarely. And then when those don't do well, it adds weight to the "josei doesn't sell" way of thinking and scares people off from licensing more. =_= (One might argue that perhaps they've just not licensed the right type of joesi, but...)

Quote:
As for your other reasoning it being too long well that is not what you initially said. I guess it's too bad that longer series can't be picked up, it certainly limits the choices (I mean it's not like we are talking One Piece long here). I guess Space Brothers is out too than.


Well, the 20 volume cap has been in place since the begining, but in regards to Chihayafuru specifically: I initially said what I was told to say. (Literally. The conversation went like this: "Hey, what am I supposed to tell them about Chihayafuru?" "Tell them it's too esoteric." "Alrighty then.") I only clarified and gave some more reasons when I was trying to explain that, no, really, if you want to carry a torch for a series, this ain't exactly the horse to bet on. I'm trying to explain how things are, not just hand down mandates. There are various reasons why Chihayafuru is not a safe choice. I'm sorry that you're disappointed, but that's just the way things are.

Thanks other commenters for jumping in, but I really think we can close this discussion on Chihayafuru now!

In regards to Space Brothers: I've only been told to give a direct "no" on Chihayafuru, so I've still been taking into account all of the people asking for Space Brothers. I'm not trying to discourage people from suggesting things, I'm just trying to get the most usable results. And we do publish some longer series (Air Gear, Fairy Tail, Wallflower...), so length in itself is not the major deciding factor.
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RAmmsoldat



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:38 pm Reply with quote
So basically you have a bit of wiggle room but the series would have to have more merits to justify the gamble, perfectly reasonable really.

If i think about it I really shouldn't bitch as even though there are lots of titles id like to see translated and released and adorning my bookshelves my amazon wishlist that I've been using to keep track of all the books i wanna get is 22 pages of pure manga and it grows faster than it shrinks.

In terms of kodansha Im yet to start cage of eden, fairy tail and animal land, i got a ton of negima books to catch up with, i got Battle angel alita to carry on as well as Genshiken and kyojin so i got a ton of stuff on my plate and screaming for more is doing myself no favors lol.

That being said Again!! was mentioned and thats something id get if it were put out as i read a dozen chapters of it and it was enjoyable.
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:41 pm Reply with quote
Lord Geo wrote:


What I bolded doesn't mean crap outside of Japan.


Actually you are wrong . Promoting that something is "award winning" certainly means crap outside of Japan. That doesn't mean I am saying meaning crap outside of Japan 100% equals sales either. But we can't say that either way.

And as for having a well regarded Anime adaption I meant among Western fans. There is a reason Chihayafuru (along with Princess Jellyfish) keeps topping polls. It's not some obscure series that no one has heard of.

Like I said I don't think it's going to be the number one top seller like Sailor Moon or Naruto, but there is indication that it wouldn't completely bomb.



Quote:
In fact, the anime outright bombed in Japan, and is only getting a second season because it helped manga sales out.


The anime didn't bomb in Japan because it did help manga sales out a lot. That is considered a success in Japan for a late night Josei series. Chihayafuru is not an Otaku series and hence disc sales are not its primary target even though its on late at night.



Quote:

The fact that no anime licensor has picked up the anime yet, even though it is well regarded, shows that it is a niche product.


Most anime series are "niche products" even ones that get licensed. There could be many reasons why the series hasn't been picked up yet.

Quote:
Sure, it has an audience, but what guarantee do you have that that very audience is big enough to support a physical release? It could very well be that it's a vocal audience, but not a big one in any way. Hell, One Piece is THE manga in Japan, yet here it's popularity varies anywhere from #2-#10.


What guarantee do you have that any series is going to have a big enough audience to support a physical release? Looking at all the manga that is out there, how much really "sells"? I am just curious how many of Kodansha series are top sellers?



Quote:

If award-winning in Japan truly meant anything here, then why don't we have titles like Giant Killing, Ace of the Diamond, Big Windup!, Princess Jellyfish, or Capeta, all of which won the same Kodansha Manga Award as Chihayafuru (in either the same category or a different one)? Does being award-winning help? Sure, in a promotional way, but I think it's ability in bumping up sales is essentially negligible in North America.


All those series won the Taisho award? That is what I was talking about And I don't know why you are telling me that it doesn't mean it will translate to sales? I never said it will 100% translate to sales, but again it's certainly a way to promote the series.



Quote:
People like foreign stuff, yes, but there is a point where the "foreign-ness" of something turns a good portion of those people away, and karuta is definitely one of those things.


And you know that how? I don't really think Karuta is all that foreign compared to many other things in manga & anime for manga & anime fans (now for someone not familiar with the medium maybe you are right).




Quote:

No, ZepysGirl definitely stated a length restriction in the very first post:


But I was specially responding to the "estoric" line.

Quote:

But at the same time if someone who is actually working in the industry is bringing up perfectly valid points as a counter-argument, then it's kind of silly to try to prove them wrong.


So just because someone works in the industry that means they can never be wrong? It reminds me of the old argument that shows with girl protagonists also don't sell.

Looking at what Viz licenses from their parent company compared to what companies like Kodansha & Vertical license I can say there are definitely different philosophies at work and probably a reason I own many more Viz titles. Oh well!

I get it the series is not going to be licensed. I also kind of realize it is pointless to make requests because I know the type of series I am interested in probably won't be picked up by Kodansha & Vertical. I certainly hope other people have more luck with the series they are interested in.
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ZepysGirl



Joined: 14 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:57 pm Reply with quote
Please continue this discussion elsewhere.
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