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Hey, Answerman! - Futile Devices


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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14761
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:37 am Reply with quote
Yeah, fonts. IIRC, because subtitles were just an after-thought back when the industry powerbrokers were compromising on the specs, the DVD spec is limited to 4 "colors": transparent background, black border, anti-aliasing, and last but not least, font color. So there can't be too many "colors."

But maybe anime companies should always have multiple subtitle tracks with different fonts or colors, so the viewer can choose which is most preferable. That could also work for honorifics and karaoke. Of course, that would add some costs and labor into the production. But we don't mind paying more.

Of course, Blu-Ray specs allow more options with subtitles than DVD specs, so they can be more creative there.


Brian Hanson wrote:

That's not to say there aren't any CG animation studios in Japan. There are lots, actually. Most of which don't do TV series or films, which is why they aren't necessarily talked about or well-known.


Also, don't forget how long it takes to render CG animation. Even rendering computer farms take awhile just to finish a few seconds of CG animation! How many computers a Japanese studio (and most of them are quite small) would need to render a 22-minute CG animation in a week for a weekly show that goes on for months?! Shocked

Furthermore, any fansubber and downloader know the risks of partaking in the activity. It's like going over the speed limit. We do it; we know the risks; we know sometimes we get caught, that's all.


Paploo wrote:

I wouldn't mind a rescue/dvd release of-

-Dragon Warrior- the Dragon Quest anime from the 90's.... no idea how much was dubbed, but it'd be nice to see.


13 eps aka "one season," IIRC from my VHS collection.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:02 am Reply with quote
LordByronius wrote:
i hear this all the time; it gets parroted like it's gospel truth or something.

this is, with all due respect, a completely unjustified, unsubstantiated assumption. where's the data? where's the proof that anyone who downloads fansubs or simulcast rips will never, NEVER pay for something, or even watch it legally?

people said this about mp3s, that we were raising a whole new generation of consumers who would find it baffling to pay for music. now we have iTunes and Napster subscriptions, Pandora radio, et cetera. music piracy still exists and it's still a problem, sure, but those services exist and they are profitable.

on the flipside, where's the data that supports the idea that piracy is okay because "most of the people who download stuff probably wouldn't buy it anyway"? i'm not saying that's probably not the case, i'm just saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE TO PROVE.

the sooner we throw out these arguments that have no factual distinction, the closer we can get to actually sorting through this sordid mess that is piracy.


You know, people will argue quantum physics all day long, but we still have no proof of Parallel Universes. And of course, just because the Moon isn't made of cheese, doesn't mean some planet out there isn't!
It's just a matter of time until someone finds proof of Bigfoot, Chupacabra, & fairies!
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kakoishii



Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 741
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:07 am Reply with quote
GWOtaku wrote:
LordByronius wrote:


i hear this all the time; it gets parroted like it's gospel truth or something.

this is, with all due respect, a completely unjustified, unsubstantiated assumption. where's the data? where's the proof that anyone who downloads fansubs or simulcast rips will never, NEVER pay for something, or even watch it legally?

people said this about mp3s, that we were raising a whole new generation of consumers who would find it baffling to pay for music. now we have iTunes and Napster subscriptions, Pandora radio, et cetera. music piracy still exists and it's still a problem, sure, but those services exist and they are profitable.

on the flipside, where's the data that supports the idea that piracy is okay because "most of the people who download stuff probably wouldn't buy it anyway"? i'm not saying that's probably not the case, i'm just saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE TO PROVE.

the sooner we throw out these arguments that have no factual distinction, the closer we can get to actually sorting through this sordid mess that is piracy.


I have to strongly disagree. I don't think that there are no converts left to be won. I simply take a serious look at the One Piece situation, and this is what I see. I see a deal that, quite frankly, doesn't get better than this outside of even better video quality. Most episodes of this series that are available on DVD get put online. They are showing new episodes within an hour of the Japanese broadcast! This is free to any American with an internet connection.

And yet people steal it. You're asking me where the data is, to prove the unprovable? You should be asking what more could possibly be done by FUNimation and Toei to entice these people to give actual support to an anime, let alone an anime that is well-loved and has given a whole lot of people countless hours of entertainment.

It's usually at this point that someone would point out U.S. exclusivity. But furthermore, in response to another one of your points I would submit that Crunchyroll is basically analogous to Napster in this situation. You know what they offer, it was described thoroughly in the column. They simulcast a lot of anime, episodes are free a week after broadcast and the simulcast is available for a free. They usually manage 720p, HD video for new programming. They often either manage worldwide streaming outside Japan or streaming to a whole lot of countries.

And yet there are people who rip their video and put it on a torrent for others to download, and there are others perfectly willing to download it. Since the column cites "tons of legal options, many of which are either free or cost a pittance", I presume you won't refut that and and claim that this is because Crunchyroll isn't offering a sufficient service. If so, well, we are left only with the assertion I've made. Crunchyroll stealers alone should be enough to convince you that I did not make a "completely unjustified" claim.

With every passing season, to me we get just a bit closer to the future that Justin Sevakis once advocated for in 2007; we have been since Crunchyroll went legit in 2009. Dozens upon dozens of anime are available digitally for free now and simulcasting is growing. You've acknowledged this. There is a lot of progress left to make, but it's sure not 2007 anymore. It is long past time to stop defaulting to pointing the finger at the industry. Sometimes the industry doesn't do enough, sometimes it really screws up. But it's also doing a lot right. When a lot of people are deliberately subverting it even in the latter scenario, that should be a wake up call.

I think you're missing Brian's point. The blanket statement that people who watch fansubs will never contribute to the industry because they will never buy the product is just that: a blanket statement. What Brian was getting at was trying to get away from the blanket statements that seem to be pigeonholing the industry in what seems like a bottomless pit of an abyss that it has no idea how to get out of. Funimation is within it's legal right to sue anyone for copyright infringement, no one is refuting that (or at least no one should), but much like the RIAA's go at taking legal action against people illegally downloading music what type of forward moving growth is that going to bring? It didn't do much for the music industry. It was things like itunes and music subscription services that brought on the forward advancement, and although the anime industry has new streaming services in place there is still more that they could do with a little imagination. It almost feels as though they've given up, thrown their hands up in frustration and while watching the industry shrink to nothing decided they might as well try and make a few bucks on the side by sewing a few kids for downloading one piece, but seriously is this the future? Is this the end all be all save all for anime? I don't think so, but what's scary is that I think a lot of fans do.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4575
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:37 am Reply with quote
Man, I'm shocked that Paranoia Agent didn't come up in the answers too. Even after all of the recent rounds of license-rescuing that FUNi has undertaken, this utter masterpiece still remains out-of-print. I'm personally relieved that I snagged the DVDs several years ago (I think they were some of the first I ever bought), but I still hope that everyone will get the chance to own it legally again.

And to the person who mentioned Kino's Journey...you are aware that that's still completely in-print from Section23, aren't you? Razz
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Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6867
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:53 am Reply with quote
classicalzawa wrote:
As for this week's question, I think fansubbers sometimes do a great job with picking good fonts and font colors for a show, not just the yellow same font you see on the professional releases. Sometimes it makes it easier to read for me. And doesn't stand against the color palette as much as the yellow does (case in point, Toward the Terra, fansubbers used a blue font, Bandai did the yellow, I bought Bandai's release though because it's a great show, but I wish they'd used the font and font color the fansubbers did).
"Sometimes" fansubbers do a good job, but just as often they choose some over-fancy font, razor thin borders, and colors that blend in with backgrounds, clothes, and hair as much as possible. At least with DVD yellow or white, you consistently get something that stands out and is easily readable. And really, if one feels like they need fancy cool fonts to be entertained, maybe they should be watching a different show. Most fonts aren't really suitable for subtitling anyway.

Another often-overlooked aspect of subtitling (which R1 companies usually get right, and fansubbers nearly always fail at) is subtitle margins. DVD subs are kept raised off the very bottom of the screen, and have line breaks to prevent single lines of text from spanning the entire image. This accomplishes two things: it keeps subtitles from getting cut off by overscan on some TVs, and it reduces eyestrain for the viewers. You don't have to keep dipping your eyes down to the very bottom of the screen, and you don't have to be constantly scanning from left to right to read long single lines. Fansubs, otoh, often have their subs running from corner to corner at the very bottom of the screen, all in the misguided quest of being "unobtrusive." Of course, this only makes the subs more obtrusive, since viewers have to expend more effort to read them (particularly with background-blending colors), and risk missing out on more of the actual image.

vashfanatic wrote:
It's not just the yellow. Funimation's release of Baccano! used white all the time... including over the white text of the next episode's title in the previews so you literally could not read the subtitles. Nor did they ever differentiate who was speaking which subtitles when two people were speaking at once... well, it's not like fansubbers subtitle things perfectly by any means, but clearly the technology is out there to do a far greater variety of highly-legible subtitling fonts and colors than in the past. I think a Crunchyroll staffer even brought this up at a table discussion with Funimation, that many companies use technology years behind what is available.
A lot of people on various sites say things like "yellow is old, it makes me feel like I'm watching something from the 1980s", while conveniently ignoring that VHS and many digital fansubs used yellow up until 2003 or so. I'm always confused by that, because it's not like they discovered new colors in 2000 or 2003 or whenever that made yellow "obsolete" or anything. Imo, all the "yellow burns my eyes" talk that you see on various fora is just a smokescreen to justify hating official releases. If DVDs used white text with semi-light/dark blue outlines, people would hate white text with semi-light/dark blue outlines.
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loka



Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:02 am Reply with quote
Are you claiming that fansubs are not used as a litmus test?

Why, then, do the accusations fly when a popular show in fansubs does not sell as the R1 industry expects. Quit with the charade already.

As for the fan question:

When the Japanese clearly say Horo, the amateurs can put her name as Horo. When the Japanese say future-men, the amateurs can put time traveler. I wonder if the movie, when released in English, will also say future-men. Or will it suddenly change. Which will look possibly even more ridiculous.
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K.o.R



Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 221
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:02 am Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
Yeah, fonts. IIRC, because subtitles were just an after-thought back when the industry powerbrokers were compromising on the specs, the DVD spec is limited to 4 "colors": transparent background, black border, anti-aliasing, and last but not least, font color. So there can't be too many "colors."


Almost, yes. DVD subs are a bitmap with 4 colours, one of which is transparent (no anti-aliasing here - the DVD player software would be responsible for that and most don't AFAIK). Typically one is always black for the border, leaving two separate font colours available (usually yellow and white for when two people are speaking at the same time). You can actually use as many colours as you like, but only four for any one "subpicture" - case in point, You're Under Arrest TV, which has subs in white, yellow, red and green.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:14 am Reply with quote
kakoishii wrote:

It was things like itunes and music subscription services that brought on the forward advancement, and although the anime industry has new streaming services in place there is still more that they could do with a little imagination. It almost feels as though they've given up, thrown their hands up in frustration and while watching the industry shrink to nothing decided they might as well try and make a few bucks on the side by sewing a few kids for downloading one piece, but seriously is this the future? Is this the end all be all save all for anime? I don't think so, but what's scary is that I think a lot of fans do.


What other options? You can already download digitally, you can watch it streaming for free, or you could buy the DVDs. What fansubbers want is for Funimation to give away the product for free which isn't feasible. Would I love to watch every anime series I can? Of course, but I don't have that right nor could anyone make money in that type of situation.
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Ojamajo LimePie



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 766
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:15 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
License rescues I'd like to see are mainly all the series VIZ has relegated to limbo, like Monster and Hikaru no Go. Sad


Fullmoon wo Sagashite. Crying or Very sad Is it too much to ask for Viz to finish Fullmoon wo Sagashite?
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:51 am Reply with quote
Quote:
We have Crunchyroll, simulcasting, iTunes, Blu Rays, tons of legal options, many of which are either free or cost a pittance, that people here in the US can use instead of torrenting a video file that requires a bunch of lousy video codecs.


Thats all and good, but what about Manga? I ain't giddy about paying a load of money to some guy in Japan on the off-chance some zealous Customs Agent thinks I either violated some obscure law a/or duty that I have to pay.

dizzon wrote:
shoddyworksucks wrote:
Funimation runs the risk of rubbing paying customers the wrong way if they end up trying to eat these people alive.


Would the paying customer really be all that upset? I mean if they are paying for the product why would going after pirates rub them the wrong way? If anything it should make the actual consumer feel good. Hypothetically, if I'm(the paying customer) playing by the rules what reason do I have to hold a grudge against Funi for protecting their and my interests?


I don't feel that same sentiment. One manga company in particular I pretty much dumped all my manga with their brand on it because they decided to do takedowns of fanscans of titles I was collecting.

Yes, I use Fanscans to "Preview" manga and buy them in English when they come out if I liked it. But due to them taking it down, I felt that my duty to them in being an honest customer had lapsed.

So to this company, I hope you can survive my lack of business for 5 of your titles. If your release schedule wasn't crap as well.
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Penguin_Factory



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 732
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:28 am Reply with quote
Brian's answer to the first question deserves a standing ovation.
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notrogersmith



Joined: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 192
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:57 am Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
Man, I'm shocked that Paranoia Agent didn't come up in the answers too.

Yeah, I had written to Answerman that I'd like to see Paranoia Agent and Lain rescued. I wouldn't be surprised if Lain remained out of print, since it's pretty obscure and weird, but as mindf--k anime go, Paranoia Agent is relatively accessible, and I thought it was at least somewhat better known.
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Zarquon



Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:03 am Reply with quote
I wanted to add a perspective to the debate about fansubs being theft and the people Funi is suing getting their just desserts. Do I think that there is any question about the ethics of fansubs?

No, absolutely not. Taking something like that is indeed theft and I fully support Funi's right to do it, with whatever means they feel they need to use.

However...

I place he blame for this situation partially on the anime producers themselves, because, while I applaud sites like Crunchyroll for attempting to broaden the business model, the industry itself is not doing a good job of analyzing the demand for the product. Steaming is not always viable for everyone for example, such as my own case where I live in a peculiar place in a pretty high tech city and the most I can get for internet is a 256K DSL. (hell its a bother to even order a pizza too but I digress)

What has been lacking, to my mind, has been an effort to really sell anime into the American (or into other overseas) markets. By that I mean to seriously consider how to get every penny they can for the demand that there is here. Streaming and ala carte buying is a good start but its not the entire answer.

Other people in this thread have been talking about how hard it is to get DVD releases into the US. Contrast that with how quickly television show DVDs hit stores in the US. Even ones from marginal shows. Just as with amine there are people who like to collect, thats a market that streaming alone just won't reach. Sure you can say "go buy the DVD in a year", but I don't see that an industry like the anime industry has ONLY that option.

I am not trying to defend the fansubbers, far from it. What gets me annoyed is watching a company come down like the hammer of god on some inscrupulous nerds when they spend the rest of the time dragging their feet and clinging to outdated business models.

I guess what I am really getting at is how I feel like they are saying that they can't compete with the fansubbers so it is they who must be destroyed. They can compete I think, and the key is catering to the urge to collect rather than just the urge to see. They can do what the fansubbers do but better and easier really. You really want to deal with the issue? corner the market on Torrents or something like that.

Anyways, I appreciate the answer to that question and strongly support Brian's stance here.

~Zarquon

also...MMmmm....super cake.........
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The King of Harts



Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 6712
Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:08 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Yeah, I had written to Answerman that I'd like to see Paranoia Agent and Lain rescued.

Lain has been rescued.

I think the reason there weren't a lot of Paranoia Agent is because people assume it's only a matter of time until it is. I know I'm just waiting for Funimation to announce they have it, and when they do, no one will be shocked.

A show I'd like to see rescued is Maison Ikkoku. The prices for the box sets, especially 8, are getting insane. Now, of course, if only Viz's anime department wasn't run by blind spider monkeys, there already would've been a reprint by now. But Viz has proven dozens of times already that they are completely incompetent as an anime company, so my only hope of seeing that show is if someone else gets from them.
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 1061
Location: New York
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:16 am Reply with quote
It ,might have a different volume of e-mails than I do, Brian, but I haven't read s[am in YEARS. I have gmail, and most of my other email accounts are linked to it, so spam is not in my life.
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