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The Mike Toole Show - Moe is the Key


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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5085

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:48 pm Reply with quote
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The Kyoto Animation hit parade, in particular, pumps out moe faves like Haruhi Suzumiya and Kannagi with almost military precision and regularity


KyoAni had absolute nothing to do with Kannagi.
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Myaow



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 1054

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:54 pm Reply with quote
Super sweet article! I love the Giant Robo->Misuzu "gao" connection (and Nagisa and Golgo)-- too funny!

Let's take a minute to be sad that Key and KyoAni aren't really doing stuff together anymore. I think that those two studios were a perfect match, with KyoAni drawing out Key's strengths like nobody else has, and Key giving KyoAni a place to show off their growing skills. I'll be wishing on every star that they do more work together one day, maybe on something like Rewrite (or maybe just maybe the far-future second coming of Angel Beats?)
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Mr Adventure



Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 1138

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:57 pm Reply with quote
That is one suggestive looking Brontosaurus.

Oh I'm sorry Apatosaurus.
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nargun



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 408

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:00 pm Reply with quote
The big problem with Air is that it's trying to tell, what, three different stories, and so has three separate dramatic arcs and three endings. I mean, stitching that sort of thing together is a key part of doing a VN adaption, but the way Air managed it so ham-fistedly really shows up how big a problem it can actually be.

For that alone it's worth watching. In both senses of "for that alone".
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malvarez1



Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 713

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:01 pm Reply with quote
I can't speak for Air and Clannad, but I loved Kanon.

Like the author of this article, I'm not really a moe person, so I watched Kanon reluctantly. But I'm glad I watched it, I thought it was a very emotional show with beautiful animation and memorable characters.

You know, I really do need to watch Air and Clannad.
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Galap



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 1149

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:03 pm Reply with quote
To answer the final question of the article (whether or not I like any Key shows), the answer is a flat, resounding 'no'.

I don't like the character designs, I don't like the story (or what passes for a story in some cases), and I sure as hell don't like the way the fandom reacts to those titles.
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Gyt Kaliba



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 623
Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:03 pm Reply with quote
Maybe I'm just one of those 'saps' you refer too (okay, actually, I know I am at times anyway), but Air is one of those few shows to actually almost bring me to the brink of tears. Take that for what you will. Razz

Anyway though, I'm an odd kind of fan. I don't like any or every title, but the insane differences between the types of shows I like are pretty weird compared to most fans I'd bet. I'm a lover of shonen like Dragon Ball and Naruto, but I also love the rom-com stuff like I"s or Love Hina (only experienced a bit of the latter there though). At the same time, I also like some darker stuff like Zetman (the manga anyway), and then to the other extreme, the really sappy, emotional stuff, such as Air and Kanon.

If nothing else though, I definitely have to commend you for finally giving it a shot. That's something I try to do with any title, is at least give it it's fair shot, at least so far as checking out a full description of it, or of checking out a video (be it a trailer or an AMV), and so on. If you didn't like it, hey, at least you gave it it's fair shot.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5085

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:06 pm Reply with quote
Galap wrote:
and I sure as hell don't like the way the fandom reacts to those titles.


What? What does this have to do with anything?
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Galap



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 1149

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:18 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:

What? What does this have to do with anything?


It's just gotten a little old to see all that stuff like "HNNNGGGGG the FEEELS bro, the FEEEEEELS" puked all over the internet for years. I guess I should clarify my statement to say that not all fans of those shows bother me; just the (fairly significant) fraction of them that behave like that.

Clannad in particular has developed a pretty crazily cultish following that's insidiously annoying.
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Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 1820
Location: Tekkoshocon

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:23 pm Reply with quote
Galap wrote:
Clannad in particular has developed a pretty crazily cultish following that's insidiously annoying.


Then you'd better learn to stop liking things, because just about any type of fandom, anime or otherwise, has these types of people in it if you look hard enough.

Of the three, I've only watched Kanon. None of the "deaths" bothered me, though spoiler[Algernon Makoto's] was probably the most saddening because the show lost its comic foil. I also find that Shiori was the only one of the main girls with any sort of complexity, Sayuri has a bit, too, but she's in more of a support role.

[EDIT: Added spoiler tags. - Key]
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5085

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:28 pm Reply with quote
Galap wrote:

Clannad in particular has developed a pretty crazily cultish following that's insidiously annoying.


Oh really? Please, point them out.
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invalidname



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 552
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:34 pm Reply with quote
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He works eleven hours, and brings the girl some flowers.

For turning Clannad After Story into Squeeze's "Up The Junction", please accept this Nobel Prize.
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Doughboy88



Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:36 pm Reply with quote
Galap wrote:
"HNNNGGGGG the FEEELS bro, the FEEEEEELS"

You just don't understand the feels.

I've only watched Clannad so far of these three and that was only after watching Angel Beats (which was not mentioned) and wanting to see what else Key had done. I do have to say that I am definitely a fan of it, but I'm not overly fanatic about anything like some people get.

Have to mention that Sunohara had the issues with the soccer team not Okazaki because that is Tomoya's family name.
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Melanchthon



Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 543
Location: Northwest from Here

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:38 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
in some ways, Clannad is half a bottle of bourbon and some bad weed away from being a Hold Steady album

I can think of a lot of things worse than that. In fact, some bourbon and Hold Steady sounds pretty good right about. You can keep the bad weed.

My problem with Clannad is as follows. First, the first half of After Story is basically filler. Nothing in there really adds anything to the story. The second half, where all the beautifully tragic emotional catharsis comes in, well, spoiler[ by the whole magic reset happy ending, that means NONE OF THAT STUFF ACTUALLY HAPPENED. The entire beautiful message is negated, and I have a hard time dealing with that. ]

Of the three, I think Kanon is the best. I have a strong antipathy towards Air, and while I appreciate Clannad, I didn't really care for it. The reason must be the moe. Ayu is the only tragic female I really felt moe for, so of course I like it better. But I think Kanon is better from techincal aspect as well. I actually imported a Kanon Art Book, and it came with a CD that was entirely filled with all the different ways Ayu said 'Uguu' throughout the show. There were 80 some, if I remember correctly.

Quote:
Air and Kanon and Clannad aren't for the cynical, or for deep thinkers looking for complicated, challenging themes. They're for saps! They're for people who kinda sorta believe in love at first sight, and running along the train platform to wave goodbye to your best girl, and the red string of fate that binds lovers together.

Yeah, as much as I hate to admit it, I am a hopeless romantic at heart. Probably why I enjoy shoujo manga so much too. Although, now that I think of it, Key shows are basically shoujo shows for men.

Quote:
I did not forget to mention the Air and Clannad movies or the 2002 Kanon TV show

Oh, that's too bad. You have to see Kanon 2002. It is one of the worst anime ever made. That is not hyperbole, it is an entirely factual statement. Not only is the animation abysmally bad, the pacing is all screwed up, all the romance is removed from the story, and the male lead is an utter wanker who spends most his time being a dick to all the girls instead of, you know, saving them, which is the whole point of the story. It's so bad it's almost impossible to find rips of the show, as if the collective fandom tried its best to eliminate all knowledge of it, and the only copy I could find had such a brain-numbly bad weeaboo translation it was almost unreadable too. In short, Kanon 2002 is the kind of thing that you show to Guantanamo Bay prisoners. Which is why I consider it a must-watch show--it has to be seen to be believed.

And since Mr. Toole brought music metaphors up first, I have to say I can not think of Clannad without thinking about this song. Besides, Clannad gives off more of a Arcade Fire vibe than a Hold Steady vibe anyway.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3457
Location: Louisville, KY

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:45 pm Reply with quote
That was a long, long read Mr.Toole and I enjoyed it. I really respect you dedication/time you took for doing this article, let alone watching all three key/visual arts series in span of 2 months. Oh if you can Mr.Toole, I highly recommend the tomoyo after "manga" if you liked her charter more or like spin-off's in general.

Galap wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:

What? What does this have to do with anything?


It's just gotten a little old to see all that stuff like "HNNNGGGGG the FEEELS bro, the FEEEEEELS" puked all over the internet for years. I guess I should clarify my statement to say that not all fans of those shows bother me; just the (fairly significant) fraction of them that behave like that.

Clannad in particular has developed a pretty crazily cultish following that's insidiously annoying.


I'm going to be nice about this as much as possible do not or ever let fans ruin a piece of media for you. If this happens then you become a self loathing hater with out actually watching the said material and I've been down that road far, far to often.


Last edited by Cecilthedarkknight_234 on Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:51 pm; edited 3 times in total
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