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The Law of Anime Part I: Copyright and the Anime Fan


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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4410
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:07 pm Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:
Wetall wrote:
Holy shit, dude. I suggested that you guys do this with regards to the Christopher Handley case over two years ago.

A little too late, I guess. Rolling Eyes


I tried really hard to get someone to do it for Handley, but it's not every day that a lawyer offers to spend a dozen hours working on an article that ANN can afford.

On the Handley case, most lawyers said, "I'm sorry, I don't want to do this," or "You'll have to pay me by the hour" (Yay, a $3000 article). Finally one agreed to do it, but then had an unexpected workload increase...

-t



I don't normally like to throw myself out there, but I'm a little over half-way through getting my JD, so I would certainly be happy to do something for ANN. Obviously, as a student, my legal opinions wouldn't hold much, if any, weight, but after graduation in 2014, or sooner if ANN actually was interested, I wouldn't mind digging into a topic that ANN wants to ask about. The Handley case is obviously something that I've been interested in and have brought to the attention of one of my professors, so I wouldn't mind having some opportunity to dig into it, even if it is for free.


That said, this was fun to read. I'm taking a copyrights course right now, which is something I've been wanting to do since I enrolled in law school because it is a topic that is so important to anime.


kedie wrote:
so..........basically fans can't do ANYTHING huh? that's what I'm getting out of this article..


As with most civil issues, it really comes down to how much someone wants to pursue an issue. Your basic cosplay at a con, for example, simply isn't worth it because it would cost far more to pursue the matter than the copyright holder would cover from the average fan. Plus, many companies just enjoy that kind of publicity. It's when somebody is potentially cutting into profits, with bootlegs for example, that it becomes a matter that one might want to pursue.
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Nom De Plume De Fanboy
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 606
Location: inland US west, pretty rural
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:01 pm Reply with quote
kedie wrote:
so..........basically fans can't do ANYTHING huh? that's what I'm getting out of this article..


Fans can do lots of things, it just has to be things tolerated by the owners.

Cosplay that doesn't make money, AMV's that aren't sold, fansubs that are just put on youtube, are mostly tolerated. Start making stuff to sell, and do it on a scale that gets noticed, and the owners will take action.

Maybe somebody loves doing Pokemon cosplay, or hello kitty, and they start working at kid's partys. Then they try taking money for posing with kids at malls for pictures of them and the kid. Then they do it at a used car dealership, and get put into ads on tv doing their thing. Someplace along the way, a C & D letter may show up, and, well, they better quit. Or switch to doing Samurai Pizza Cats. Smile

So people have to be aware of the context. People have to ask themselves, "What's the material consequence of what I'm trying to do?", and, umm, be reasonable? The history seems to say most owners tolerate lots of things, just within some limits, which aren't that hard to see or understand.
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Twage



Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 356
Location: North Bergen, NJ
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:03 pm Reply with quote
kedie wrote:
so..........basically fans can't do ANYTHING huh? that's what I'm getting out of this article..


What you should get out of it is not that fans can't do anything, but that fans get away with everything.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
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Location: Louisville, KY
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:51 pm Reply with quote
kedie wrote:
so..........basically fans can't do ANYTHING huh? that's what I'm getting out of this article..


It depends on what the fans are doing and if it's worth the companies time pursuing a case. Selling doujunshi of their characters to promote as series okay, selling boot-leg dvd's/bluray disc bad. It's called using your head or just basic common sense.
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S.Thordsen



Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 15
Location: Santa Ana, CA
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:29 pm Reply with quote
Ryujin99 wrote:

As one who feels like I have a bit of a creative spark, I've been working on some original creations and a lot of the information in the first article was really helpful. I always kind of thought of copyright as some big, scary, unapproachable thing that would be completely beyond the scope of anything I'd ever be able to manage. But I guess that actually isn't really the case. Of course I'm sure there are plenty of other details involved in such a pursuit, such as forming contracts for distribution, production, etc. if I ever make anything worth selling.


Making certain that a copyright is free and clear of problems and other claimants is a nasty business involving searching back in creation to seeing who contributed what and where any potential problems might lie. I've warned a number of clients that just because someone is a friend doesn't mean you can predict what they will do if you start to make money. In some ways it's like doing a title search for housing (something else I've had to tackle over time).

But the actual process of copyrighting isn't too difficult.

rizuchan wrote:

But there's one aspect of copyright on anime I've never found a good answer for. Obviously the video of fansubs is illegal, but what about the translation? I have heard that a translator has a common-law copyright on any translation they do regardless of whether they have a license to use the source material, but I think that sounds a little lax. A translation of the script for an anime episode (just the text) is mostly useless without a copy of the video (which you could obtain legally) but a full translation of say, the latest Haruhi light novel could obviously affect sales.
I translate anime lyrics as a hobby, and I while I certainly am not expecting a cease-and-desist, I've always wondered what rights I have over my translations, especially in cases where they have been ripped off.


Translations depend on what the source is. Yes a translation is independently copyrightable depending on what it is of and how it was contracted. But, if you are talking a translation of an original work then it becomes a derivative work because you don't own the underlying script. Things become much trickier though if you are talking something that takes a lot of liberties. The best example I can think of are the DBZ abridged and related series on youtube where the script is nowhere close to the original dialogue BUT it is still based on the underlying story of Dragonall Z. At some point that script would become a parody (which will be covered in a later article). That said, the depiction of that script would have to suddenly become independent of the original animation in order to avoid other complications.

Bored_Ming wrote:
Thanks Zac and Sean for the articles they were very informative and I enjoyed reading them. Combined with Justin's Anime Economy articles it really gives folks the ability to hold intelligent conversations on the various issues affecting anime today.

No guarantee that these conversations will occur on the internet Wink


I try to have these conversations on other forums and offer my insight here and there but often they get derailed or I end up dealing with trolls. Two recent discussions that immediately come to mind are the recent Halo 4 map pack debacle and the Dead Space 3 credits glitch. I have been considering writing articles that involve a legal element to offer a takeaway on the subject matter.

Lyrai wrote:

And to the author himself, I love that you chose Godot for your avatar.


Haha, thanks, I love the Phoenix Wright franchise (connection to my work aside) and Godot is my favorite character from it. I have a set of the PVCs from the game on my desk at work (in addition to a War for Cybertron Soundwave).

Joe Mello wrote:
So at least on the surface, it sounds like the main takeaway is we'd all be in jail and/or broke if it weren't for pragmatism.

Tempest wrote:
On the Handley case, most lawyers said, "I'm sorry, I don't want to do this," or "You'll have to pay me by the hour" (Yay, a $3000 article). Finally one agreed to do it, but then had an unexpected workload increase...


Unfortunate, but understandable. Those billable hours, man.


Arguably yes, it would be extremely poor PR to pursue fans for activities they do for fun and without a profit (and in many cases, hobbies that cost them money). Alternatively, there are ethical matters that could arguably produce some reform on statutory damages (which some attorneys have started arguing are too high given the actual damages) were someone to sue a fan for making fanart and posting it on deviantart.

Ironically as I was writing the articles I was actually in the middle of a case in federal court in L.A. defending a client from a copyright troll which put a huge dent in my time on top of the rest of my workload.
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crosswithyou



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 2892
Location: California
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:37 pm Reply with quote
Very informative article, and I think it's these types of articles that make ANN a great resource. It's very nice of Sean to take the time to answer questions people may have in the forum as well. Looking forward to the rest of the series!
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Galap
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:48 am Reply with quote
I think the biggest problem is the length of time for public domain. It should be like, idk, 30 years? 40 years? Definitely not 95+ years.

If it were this way, at the time of this post, everything pre 1983 or pre 1973 would be public domain. I think that's a lot more fair. I mean, anything pre '73 is by this time considered old, so it probably should be old enough to do whatever you want with it. 95 years is ridiculous. Think about it this way: stuff that came out when you were an infant won't become public domain until after you're probably dead (at least at this technology level). That's a lower bound, too, because the lifetime of the creator + 70 years is probably longer most of the time.
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gsilver



Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 611
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:57 am Reply with quote
The thing that has always bothered me about copyright is the implications for media (and thus cultural) preservation.

There are many instances of collaborative works, such as jazz recordings, where it is literally impossible to contact, or even know of everyone involved in its production. Studio masters can and do get lost (many gamers can point to a game that they would love to see rereleased, but it can never be because the original owner lost the source code; My pick on that is Panzer Dragoon Saga, and that was lost in a very short span of time relative to copyright) so it isn't even guaranteed that the corporations will be able to preserve their work long enough for it to become public domain.

Even anime is subject to this. The masters of Armor Hunter Mellowlink were famously lost in an earthquake. Another studio copy did eventually surface, but we came very close to losing the series.

Now, Disney can and will preserve Steamboat Willie until the end of time, but many other works aren't so lucky.

The problem is, copyright terms are dictated by the likes of Disney, and they end up applying to everything else.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:08 am Reply with quote
Do Abridged series count as "fair use"? YouTube keeps on shutting them down for copyright violations but their makers insist that what they are doing is not illegal. What's the real story on them?
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2541
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:29 am Reply with quote
There is a small mistake in the article. Universal didn't make the Transformer's movies. Paramount and Dreamworks did. Universal made the even worse Battleship movie.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:40 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Do Abridged series count as "fair use"? YouTube keeps on shutting them down for copyright violations but their makers insist that what they are doing is not illegal. What's the real story on them?


I would think they would fall under fair use if you use your own dvd's, much like you do when you make amv's. Now the main question is, are they making huge amounts of profit off of these "abridged series"??

Oh I really, really loved reading this article S.Thordsen. I've always wanted a career as a paralegal or work in the criminal justice system. I applaud your effort/time to write up this article for everyone here. I personally took two years of criminal law in high school but that was nearly ten years now, I'm just thankful for open case laws and the net to keep my mind up.
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S.Thordsen



Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Posts: 15
Location: Santa Ana, CA
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:52 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Do Abridged series count as "fair use"? YouTube keeps on shutting them down for copyright violations but their makers insist that what they are doing is not illegal. What's the real story on them?


Stay tuned for this one - Fair Use is in an upcoming article.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:26 am Reply with quote
Okay, thanks. I look forward to that article.
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Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2171
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:47 am Reply with quote
Galap wrote:
I think the biggest problem is the length of time for public domain. It should be like, idk, 30 years? 40 years? Definitely not 95+ years.

If it were this way, at the time of this post, everything pre 1983 or pre 1973 would be public domain. I think that's a lot more fair. I mean, anything pre '73 is by this time considered old, so it probably should be old enough to do whatever you want with it. 95 years is ridiculous. Think about it this way: stuff that came out when you were an infant won't become public domain until after you're probably dead (at least at this technology level). That's a lower bound, too, because the lifetime of the creator + 70 years is probably longer most of the time.


I think that at the minimum it should be for the life of the creator and then some. I don't like the idea of me making something and then the government says that at some point in my life, I no longer have a say in how it's used or that someone else can sell my exact creation without crediting me or giving me a penny for it. That doesn't seem fair to the creator.

Life plus 75 years or whatever it is seems a bit of excessive for pure numbers, but when phrased as the creators life and the life of their kids who inherent it (basically what 75 years means) it doesn't seem unfair to me.
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Surrender Artist



Joined: 01 May 2011
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:06 am Reply with quote
Under the Copyright Act of 1790, the first passed by Congress, an author could copyright something for 14 years and renew said copyright for another 14 if still alive when the original copyright was set to expire. Thus the maximum term was 28 years. This copyright was narrower than what we have now. The terms were doubled to 28 years, for a maximum term of 56 years, but operated the same otherwise, in 1909. The current system didn't appear until the 70s and didn't reach present lengths until the Copyright Term Extension Act (Championed by Senator Sonny Bono; sometimes derisively known as the Mickey Mouse Protection Act) in the 90s.

I believe that Jack Valenti, former President of the MPAA is on record, I believe, as wishing that copyright could last forever less one day.

I favor a return to the terms similar to the 1909 act; perhaps a option of a 7 or 14 year initial term with 7-year renewals by the actual author up to 56 years. The present system needlessly creates orphan works and feels like it strains the constitution's prescription securing copyrights, "for limited Times."

-------------------------------------------------------------------

These are excellent articles. I knew a great deal of this already, the remnants of a paper on federal copyright law and preemption that I wrote in college, but it was refreshing to have it consolidated and presented in an orderly manner.

I'm looking forward to the articles dealing with fair use and the often bandied about 'parody/satire defense'. I have a feeling that there are a lot of misconceptions and delusions about that.
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