Forum - View topicNEWS: Newspaper: Funimation Sales Down More Than Half Since 2004
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Innotech
Posts: 234 Location: Louisiana |
|
|||||
|
Well, I try to do my part to help R1 companies. I've lost track of how much I've spent, but I could have bought a small car with it. Now Im not 100% innocent, I download some fansubs. Our household is setup with a fiber optic network which makes downloading massive amounts of anime a breeze. However where we differ from the typical downloader is for what gets licensed, we usually also pick up the DVD or bluray when available. Usually something licensed is immediately deleted once the R1 is available for purchase. There are some exceptions to that, like Sailor Moon and Full Moon wo Sagashite, which I have the first 7 volumes of but which VIZ tragically cut short (Ill never forgive them for it) but for the most part its stuff that just hasn't made it over here yet. A lot of stuff from Studio 4C comes to mind here, as well as stuff like Dennou Coil and Katanagatari. We have Sora no Woto in there, but thats on both of our buy lists as soon as its available.
In some cases myself and my roommates will buy the same show. For me, its the collector mentality. I want to build up a backlog to watch later, especially since the sustainability of anime is in question and shows I might want to see later will be increasingly difficult to find. For the most part, I stayed ahead of the curve and picked up a vast majority of the stuff I wanted to own, but thats another problem. I was finally able to track down shows like Devil Hunter Yohko and Utena and Riding Bean, so I've nearly exhausted my buy list. I browse the aisles and online shops now and no longer have a list of dozens of shows I want. It has dwindled to maybe 7-10 series, not including things unreleased yet or unlicensed. Im willing to spend, but the product is increasingly just not there anymore that I want to own. The problem the market has is not a lot of people behave like the people in my household. But this isnt just a problem with anime, it extends to games and movies too. In the case of those, however, a piracy rate of a few hundred thousand copies still leaves room for sales and profit. Anime was already struggling, so this made it worse. It really pains me to see so many young anime "fans" bragging about their 300 GB "collection" of shows. Anime isnt any different from other consumer goods. You dont have the right to have it, its a priveledge. But young kids are increasingly growing up with the mentality that they have the right to enjoy anything they want for free. It kind of makes me sad. It even makes me sad when people just download the latest videogames without paying a cent. One thing I like about what NIS is doing, is including extras. For collectors, this adds value to the purchase. If I get an artbook or even something as simple as a small booklet or pencil board, I am much more satisfied with my purchase. The ones that came with anime figures were a huge bonus. I detest those super cheap packages, with the plastic cover and maybe a cheap paper insert with the episode titles if youre lucky. I prefer to pay a little more for extras. Thats just me though. I didn't mind the monthly releases of volumes because the package was of higher quality, with commentaries and easter eggs on each disc. The problem is that this was also no doubt pretty expensive to incorporate, and probably helped to bankrupt Geneon. I also think the decline in quality series has taken a toll even in Japan itself. I love moe blob shows and I have collected such abominations as Taruto, Lucky Star, Angel Tales, RIsky Safety, Galaxy Angel (Broccoli I love you) with gleeful abandon. However I do recognize the very limited appeal of these shows outside of Japan Im just glad they exist here at all. BUt shows with a more western influence are rarer to see, because they dont appeal very much to the mainstream Japanese. It is increasingly obvious that there is an absolutely MASSIVE gap between the preferences of Japanese and Western people. Just look at sales of any western produced game in Japan, or any JRPG sales over here outside of a few select franchises. On top of all that distressing stuff, the economy is just in the crapper now and many people cant afford to keep up their anime fandom. Its a luxury good practically, and the market reflects it as such. Even other forms of media can struggle in this down economy, so anime never stood a chance really. Now as for how to fix this mess, I honestly dont know. The overall western mentality of having what you want when you want it for free is a very damaging mindset and it affects many industries. Until people are willing to spend more for items they want, then this isnt going away. |
||||||
|
||||||
GrilledEelHamatsu
 Posts: 703 |
|
|||||
|
[quote="BlackJaded"]
Bandai USA will likely remain netural. Remeber BV doesn't focus expansion alot. Sunrise will also stay intact. Remember they always focus on one franchise and don't produce a collegue of newer shows or half season efforts. Viz will also go nowhere. I do think that AnimEigo will be run by a relative of Robert Woodhead, since he seems to has lost interest in his company. If people are looking for blame of the '07 collapse, piracy only played a small role in its factor. Cable TV and retail stores are to blame. G4's decision to cancel "Anime Unleashed" without warning or explanation in May of 2006 was a double whammy blow to Pioneer/Geneon. I knew it was going to hurt them, but I didn't think it was going to destroy them! I will never forgive G4! Yusenai! I still refuse to watch them to this day. Musicland also caused some heavy damage on R1 labels. We know that they were responsible for sinking CPM, They also were poor in returns, not paying the millions that they owed the labels like ADV,Pioneer and Funimation. Although there was a boom and growth in the US market, cable TV continued to shun anime. And cable companies expanded on weak markets like premium movie channels and pay sport league channels. If they would of at least tried, they would have gotten advertisers to back anime. But they didn't even try!Except maybe Cartoon Network and NBC/Universal Starz. |
||||||
|
||||||
agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
|
|||||
The demands of headquarters back in Japan made it impossible to taper down in response to the decline in the market, and the need to have title to put down with unrealistic sales expectations to "make budget" helped maintain the overpriced licenses which was one of the things making basically every deal they signed into a money loser. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
|
|||||
Quite pointless, really. Companies are business run for profit, not charities, When a company goes under it is because the people in charge of managing it were inept, plain and simple. When a company starts to ask their buyers for help it is time to sell said company stock and look for other options since that ship is heading to the bottom of the sea. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Innotech
Posts: 234 Location: Louisiana |
|
|||||
It doesnt bother me to help a company. By that I mean I am buying anime products. I dont buy it TO help the companies, but because I enjoy the products. |
||||||
|
||||||
TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
|
|||||
|
I support R1s as well as fansubs. I usually watch subs/streams then buy the R1 when (if) they come out for the stuff I like' like the FMA:B Blu-Rays or Eden of the East or Ouran Host Club.
The problem is most of the stuff I watch never gets licensed. Somehow I doubt Oreimo will get dubbed and released here, or the Precure series, or Seikon no Qwaser or Kodomo no Jikan (though Qwaser's manga is licensed here and I buy that), or lots of other stuff. I prefer dubs, but most stuff I watch never get dubs, and my tastes dont mesh well with the average dub watcher it seems, so no R1s for me. The unfortunate effect of there being only 1 or two main anime companies these days; less stuff gets licensed so less money can be spent on it |
||||||
|
||||||
|
GrilledEelHamatsu
Posts: 703 |
|
|||||
The damage over the G4 fallout had already been done. Denstu could only save face by continuing to invest in big name big budget titles for Geneon USA, it was a life support situation and Denstu had already been weighing the option of either pulling the plug or keeping the ventilator going by clearing the way for bankrupcy. Remember, Pioneer had no structured marketing arm like ADV did. Cable TV,retail and internet advertising was thier best bet. They had no sampling,no VOD, no streaming e.t.c I think Denstu knew it was vital to just pulling the plug on the whole thing. They couldn't get the returns and assets owed to them by Musicland and the backlash over G4's BAD business move to throw anime fans under the bus wasn't large enough for them to force Viacom's hand at reconsidering or putting together another lineup. Bit Torrenting was also something that Geneon didn't take seriously enough and it bit them hard. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
dragonrider_cody
Posts: 2541 |
|
|||||
First of all, you obviously know nothing about G4. The company has never been owned in part or in whole by Viacom. Viacom doesn't even supply any programming to the channel, as most of it's previous Paramount TV library is now owned by CBS. G4TV is a division of Comcast. Also, while the demise of G4 likely hurt Geneon and ADV from a marketing stand point, it probably did little financially to them. Its been stated again and again and again that TV networks pay next to nothing for anime episodes. The cancellation of the block would have had little financial effect on the companies, let alone play a major role in the company's demise. If you would have listened to the Geneon podcast several months back, you would know that Geneon had a multitude of problems dating back long before G4 pulled the plug on their lineup. Not to mention that G4's anime block never pulled anywhere near the numbers or had the impact of Toonami or Adult Swim. It was one of the lowest rate programming blocks on one of the lowest rated networks on cable. If that was enough to destroy Geneon, then they were in terrible shape regardless. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
GrilledEelHamatsu
Posts: 703 |
|
|||||
|
Yes but DC, you must remember. When there were known as Pioneer, they had more exposure to cable TV. I wasn't saying that cable companies pay the labels for licensing, I was saying that its the exposure that acted as a marketing ploy for anime.
Remember that during the boom especially the early part of it 2002-2003, that majority of the anime titles on cable TV networks like Cartoon Network,TechTV,Encore,ICStarz were all Pioneer releases. Anime Unleashed had gotten off to quite a strong start having been the 2nd highest rated show on TechTV behind X-Play. The 2004 merger of G4 and TechTV was supossed to have increased viewership between the two failing networks and at the time, Pioneer was looking to reinvent thier label so they changed it to "Geneon USA". The G4/Tech TV merger failed to generate better ratings and in the spring of 2005, it was abandoned. TechTV of course was dissolved. Pioneer's problems begin as soon as they became Geneon, then soon begin to carry way too much what they bargined for grabbing too many expensive budgeted licenses, and investing heavily in titles that were too niche,dubbing everything. In just 3 years time 2004-2007, Pioneer USA completely bankrupt themselves! After the G4 fallout. Geneon didn't expand thier marketing options, they attempted to hold on to Starz for help, still licensing thier titles to air on Starz and on ImageAsia. But those networks did not have a strong enough viewership to save them. In the end, all Pioneer did was worsen the situation pulling a SEGA/CSK and Coleco and just burned themselves into red. Instead of addressing the problem. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
|
|||||
The way they were being run, they only could survive in the upswing of a boom ~ requiring a company to meet a mandatory quota of new releases when the typical release is losing money is, in effect, requiring the company to run at a loss. They were already facing mounting losses when the G4 deal fell through, and in the face of the peaking of the boom, they only stood a chance of staunching the bleeding by slowing down the pace of their release schedule and being more selective in their licensing. Its not as if the bottom suddenly dropped out of the market in 2007 ~ the market had been shrinking since 2004. Indeed, the "positive spin" headline for Funimation would be "Funimation outperforms its market", since Funimation gross revenue only fell by 50%, while the total anime market has fallen by more than 50% since 2004. Certainly Navarre lost money by buying into a niche market at the peak of a boom, but that is water under the bridge. The question going ahead is whether Funimation is at a sustainable total market under its physical+electronic strategy, or whether it faces ongoing decline. |
||||||
|
||||||
Videogame30
 Posts: 4 |
|
|||||
|
After reading about geneon in the above posts, what does this mean for funimation? Will it still be around for the years to come? Or is this the year it closes it's doors forever?
There have been a few titles I've been looking forward to and to see them canceled so close to release would suck like you wouldn't believe. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
SgtMustang
Posts: 158 |
|
|||||
|
The anime dvd market has never been huge in america its always been that one small shelf in the best buy/movie store.
Theres is a hump to get over to become an anime fan, I got over it from watching the anime that used to be on adult swim while waiting for the ATHF or Sealab rerun to air. At first I didn't like any of the shows at all, but as I saw more of how they developed their chars, the types of story arcs they used, and the universes they created I started to like anime more and more. With no anime on tv, you aren't going to get very many new people discovering anime, and the market will continue to shrink as older fans die/ get tired of/outgrow anime/hate the new stuff/already bought everything they like/join neo luddite communities. The US entertainment market is still a huge one, even in the recession. And to revitalize the US anime market would take a sizeable investment and a number of years to get rolling. Frankly it doesn't make sense for any US companies to make this investment w/ Japans licensing demands, and the dependency on the Japanese studios to make quality series/movies and not shows that will most likely cause revulsion from general US audiences(aka strike witches and such). If Japan wants to make money from the US it needs to be them that makes that investment, to pay for a cable channel, to take a hit in the shorterm for the sake of longterm growth, and maybe even *gasp* make shows w/ mass appeal rather then rely on products targeted directly for otaku. |
||||||
|
||||||
Sanosuke_Inara
 Posts: 1662 |
|
|||||
|
||||||
|
||||||
Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23740 |
|
|||||
|
This is definitely not news to gladden the heart of a Funi fanboy like myself. One thing that leaped out at me was that while Funi's net sales have declined a little over 50 per cent since 2004, its pre-tax income declined around 66 per cent. That seems to indicate that not only are they selling less (duh) but they are not keeping the same ratio of pre-tax income on what they are selling. I wonder what accounts for the change? (My apologies if somebody has already addressed this earlier in the thread, but there were just too many tl;dr posts for me to plow through.)
edit update: actually, went back and reread _V_'s first post in the thread and the differences in the ratios of decline between net sales (50%) and pre-tax income (66%) could be attributable to Funi's price slashing. If you cut prices, yet still continue to experience a decline in sales, then it makes sense you won't be having the same profit margins as before. Last edited by Blood- on Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Innotech
Posts: 234 Location: Louisiana |
|
|||||
|
atually, if any of you had a Suncoast near you, you probably recall a massive floor to ceiling section of nothing but anime that went at least 3-4 shelves wide. I spent so much time at Suncoast during anime's prime it wasnt even funny. I started a dozen series at a time and preordered volume by volume and Suncoast almost always had exactly what I was looking for. Then when they went under, FYE took over the stock, but it has become a pretty sad remnant of the past. Lots of out of date single volumes and incomplete sets priced WAY too high to ever clear out. The boxset prices arel udicrous compared to what they can be bought for nline or at Best Buy. Speaking of which, the Best Buy here still has a nice 4 shelf selection, but across the nation they have been paring down the selections. You pretty much have to go online now to find any older series or discontinued stuff.
Its kind of a sad situation but at least the internet DOES exist. |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group