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Code Geass Brittania Metaphor


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Who do you think the creator of Code Geass made the Holy Empire of Britannia a metaphor for the most?
United States of America (Current)
25%
 25%  [ 19 ]
Empire of Japan (Pre-1945)
16%
 16%  [ 12 ]
United Kingdom
48%
 48%  [ 36 ]
Other (please give your personal answer if you can)
9%
 9%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 74

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kaiser11492



Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 151

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:46 pm Reply with quote
egoist wrote:
I usually don't care about borders.


Borders? Confused

egoist wrote:
I think it's so obvious that it's based on the British Empire that some people went out of their way by thinking "Oh, it's so obvious it has to be a trap." Prove me wrong. Laughing


What are you trying to say exactly? Confused
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damien007



Joined: 23 Jun 2010
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:15 am Reply with quote
kaiser11492 wrote:
egoist wrote:
Now, what if the same poll appeared over here, in Europe, on a site where visitors are mostly Europeans, do you really think the results would be the same?


I think a good portion of Europeans would see the USA as a good candidate for Britannia. And Japan could see a lot of Britannia in the recent USA (The USA is the only country to take over Japan in any form).


I think the problem is that there is some confusion over what we are arguing If we're arguing that we as viewers can draw some comparisons between Britannia and the US then yes i agree there are some. But if we're arguing what the "Holy Brittannian Empire" is based on; Then i don't think there is any question or doubt that it's based on Britannia AKA Great Britain AKA The Britannia/British Empire for 3 simple reasons.

The Brittannian empire is the most powerful empire in the history of the world. It's literally the best example of imperialism in history and it's philosophy beliefs are exactly like the Brittannian empire in Code Geass.

Secondly, It's called the "Holy Brittannian Empire" why would it be anything other then the IRL Brittannian Empire. Seriously am i the only one who sees this am i going crazy???

And lastly and most importantly lellouch rebelled against the Brittannian empire to create the United States of Japan. Honestly that is quite obviously a comparison to the USA and i would like to see someone argue otherwise. Why would the show have 2 metaphors for the same country from 2 completely different angles??? Are they saying the USA are the good guys and the bad guys at the same time???

Seriously i can see that people might draw a few superficial comparisons between the US and the Brittannian Empire in the show. But i don't think anyone can argue at the point that it isn’t based on The Brittannian empire at the height of its power.

Also as said in a previous post. The creators all but said that the brittanian empire wasn't based in any way on the US, how can you argue with that?
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kaiser11492



Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 151

PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:33 am Reply with quote
damien007 wrote:
Are they saying the USA are the good guys and the bad guys at the same time???


The early USA could be the good guys because of the original principles this country was founded on after the Revolution. The modern-day USA could be the bad guys because of the amount of US interference in international affairs within the past century.

damien007 wrote:
Also as said in a previous post. The creators all but said that the brittanian empire wasn't based in any way on the US, how can you argue with that?


Authors and artists tend not to admit if some external source gave them the slightest idea. They might totally believe they came up with it out of nothing, but usually something around them gives them the idea subconsciously.
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damien007



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:33 am Reply with quote
kaiser11492 wrote:
damien007 wrote:
Are they saying the USA are the good guys and the bad guys at the same time???


The early USA could be the good guys because of the original principles this country was founded on after the Revolution. The modern-day USA could be the bad guys because of the amount of US interference in international affairs within the past century.

damien007 wrote:
Also as said in a previous post. The creators all but said that the brittanian empire wasn't based in any way on the US, how can you argue with that?


Authors and artists tend not to admit if some external source gave them the slightest idea. They might totally believe they came up with it out of nothing, but usually something around them gives them the idea subconsciously.


But there not saying that they came up with it out of nothing. Thy're saying that they based it on the IRL "Brittanian Empire" which is what i had assumed most people would assume.

Let me put it this way, can you think of a single reason to suggest that the "holy brittanian empire" isnt based on the IRL Brittania Empre. The single only reason i can think of is geographic location. And as i said in my first post it quite clearly says in the first episode that the capital of the "holy birttanian empire" was transferred to the new world. Obviously implying that the capital was moved from london to the new capital in the Americas called "Pendragon" (which FYI is the last name of Arthur Pendragon a very famous english king) which was destroyed in the second seazon by FLAGA (or whatever it is called).
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kaiser11492



Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 151

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:22 am Reply with quote
damien007 wrote:
Let me put it this way, can you think of a single reason to suggest that the "holy brittanian empire" isnt based on the IRL Brittania Empre. The single only reason i can think of is geographic location. And as i said in my first post it quite clearly says in the first episode that the capital of the "holy birttanian empire" was transferred to the new world. Obviously implying that the capital was moved from london to the new capital in the Americas called "Pendragon" (which FYI is the last name of Arthur Pendragon a very famous english king) which was destroyed in the second seazon by FLAGA (or whatever it is called).


I totally respect your opinion. It's just that I don't necessarily agree with it. First, when you say IRL Britannia Empire, do you mean the British Empire? I understand how Britannia=British Empire, but Britannia=USA has more similarities. I listed all the similarities in a previous post. The USA has more support to me because Japan was beaten and taken over by the USA and WWII is viewed differently in Japan than in the West.

Just to be fair, maybe Britannia is supposed to be an embodiment of both Britain and the USA. Both were/are the #1 superpower in the world, expanding their spheres of influences across the globe to maintain dominance, and practicing imperialism. Also, American culture is just a unique branch off British culture.
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damien007



Joined: 23 Jun 2010
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:46 am Reply with quote
kaiser11492 wrote:
damien007 wrote:
Let me put it this way, can you think of a single reason to suggest that the "holy brittanian empire" isnt based on the IRL Brittania Empre. The single only reason i can think of is geographic location. And as i said in my first post it quite clearly says in the first episode that the capital of the "holy birttanian empire" was transferred to the new world. Obviously implying that the capital was moved from london to the new capital in the Americas called "Pendragon" (which FYI is the last name of Arthur Pendragon a very famous english king) which was destroyed in the second seazon by FLAGA (or whatever it is called).


I totally respect your opinion. It's just that I don't necessarily agree with it. First, when you say IRL Britannia Empire, do you mean the British Empire? I understand how Britannia=British Empire, but Britannia=USA has more similarities. I listed all the similarities in a previous post. The USA has more support to me because Japan was beaten and taken over by the USA and WWII is viewed differently in Japan than in the West.

Just to be fair, maybe Britannia is supposed to be an embodiment of both Britain and the USA. Both were/are the #1 superpower in the world, expanding their spheres of influences across the globe to maintain dominance, and practicing imperialism. Also, American culture is just a unique branch off British culture.


No i called it britannia becuase as i said in a previous post the word "brittania" is just the archaic from of the term "Great Brittain" they mean exactly the same thing. The british empire at the hieght of its power was commonly refered to as "Britannia". In fact the song "Rule Britannia" is a very famous national piece from around that period.
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kaiser11492



Joined: 19 Feb 2011
Posts: 151

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:22 am Reply with quote
damien007 wrote:
No i called it britannia becuase as i said in a previous post the word "brittania" is just the archaic from of the term "Great Brittain" they mean exactly the same thing. The british empire at the hieght of its power was commonly refered to as "Britannia". In fact the song "Rule Britannia" is a very famous national piece from around that period.


I'm quite aware of British history. Britannia is the feminine personifcation of Britain. I understand how Britannia is Britain and Area 11 is the USA, which is why I requested the USA have (Current) next to it because Revolutionary USA was more benevolent and no-interfering than the modern day USA.

I'm just wondering, why is my theory wrong exactly? Once again I respect your opinion, its just that you're going against a more well accepted view. Just look at the polls. Please tell me because I would like to know.

One of my strongest pieces of evidence is how Admiral Perry, with his Britannian Black ships, forced Japan to open its ports in 1853. The creation and use of a FLEIJA/Nuke is also strong evidence.
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damien007



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:49 am Reply with quote
Umm what? Britannia literally means the same thing as Britain, area 11 in no way means the USA, no offence but what you said makes exactly zero sense.

Secondly I would say most people agree that The holy britannian empire is based on Britain considering everyone but you in this thread has stated that. Even the creators effectively said that The holy birttanian empire was based on brittania and not the US (But what do they know they only created the show right?). Im not saying your wrong but all the facts and even the creators say otherwise. One again... Why would it be called the holy brittanian empire if it wasn't based on the actual Brittanian empire?

So re-summarise The holy Britannian empire has: The same name as the real British empire with the word holy added to the title. The same emprical system of government as the British empire( I don't care how "empirical" the USA is, it isn't actually a empire). And the same history as the British empire. THERE ARE SO MANY REFERENCES TO ENGLISH HISTORY IN THE NAME THE HOLY BRITTANIAN EMPIRE IT's NOT FUNNY (lancelot, pendragon, knights of the round, excalibur etc...). I listed several of them in my first post, go read that if you really want.

For every one passing resemblance the USA has to "the holy brittanian" empire, the Brittanian Empire has 100 more. And other then that all your examples I've read apply equally to the british empire in that it was militaristic and dogmatic etc. People think that the USA represents the holy Brittanian Empire more due to a combination of arrogance and anti-Americanism. And they insist that this is the case because people like to think that every little thing is a political metaphor.

Also I applaud your suggestion that the United States of Japan (obviously the actual metaphor for the USA in the show) represents the colonial US, that was brilliant. I doubt even I would have been able to come up with such a convoluted explanation for that flaw in logic.

I don't care how many similarities you can point out between the US and the holy Britannia empire. Because literally everything else about the show (including it's creators) suggest it's based on Brittania. I've given you plenty of reasons why the “Holy Britannian Empire” but you can't give me one reason as to why “the holy Brittanian empire” isn't likely to be based on the Brittanian Empire. I mnot saying there arent similarities between "the holy britannian" empire, but im saying there is far more evidence suggesting that it is.

Honestly I'm amazed you can maintain you point of view when there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I'm respectfully not going argue any-more simply because I've already said everything that can be said regarding this matter and if you mind still isn't changed then it obvious im not going to make it change.

Oh also while the Nuclear bomb was created first by the US it is by no means an American invention. The technology was pioneered by Einstein who was German in the first place. And half the major powers where conducting nuclear research, the US just happened finished it first.And it stands to reason that if north ammerica was still controlled by Britian then admiral perry would have been considered british as opposed to american.

So yeah If you still think the "Holy BRITANIAN Empire" is based on the USA. And the USJ is based On the USA also but an earlier version (becuase one reference to the US isn't enough rite?). Then more power to you, im never going to be able to convince you otherwise. So this discussion is going no-where so im ending it. I wish you good health.
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kaiser11492



Joined: 19 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:19 am Reply with quote
damien007 wrote:
Umm what? Britannia literally means the same thing as Britain, area 11 in no way means the USA, no offence but what you said makes exactly zero sense.

Secondly I would say most people agree that The holy britannian empire is based on Britain considering everyone but you in this thread has stated that. Even the creators effectively said that The holy birttanian empire was based on brittania and not the US (But what do they know they only created the show right?). Im not saying your wrong but all the facts and even the creators say otherwise. One again... Why would it be called the holy brittanian empire if it wasn't based on the actual Brittanian empire?

So re-summarise The holy Britannian empire has: The same name as the real British empire with the word holy added to the title. The same emprical system of government as the British empire( I don't care how "empirical" the USA is, it isn't actually a empire). And the same history as the British empire. THERE ARE SO MANY REFERENCES TO ENGLISH HISTORY IN THE NAME THE HOLY BRITTANIAN EMPIRE IT's NOT FUNNY (lancelot, pendragon, knights of the round, excalibur etc...). I listed several of them in my first post, go read that if you really want.

For every one passing resemblance the USA has to "the holy brittanian" empire, the Brittanian Empire has 100 more. And other then that all your examples I've read apply equally to the british empire in that it was militaristic and dogmatic etc. People think that the USA represents the holy Brittanian Empire more due to a combination of arrogance and anti-Americanism. And they insist that this is the case because people like to think that every little thing is a political metaphor.

Also I applaud your suggestion that the United States of Japan (obviously the actual metaphor for the USA in the show) represents the colonial US, that was brilliant. I doubt even I would have been able to come up with such a convoluted explanation for that flaw in logic.

I don't care how many similarities you can point out between the US and the holy Britannia empire. Because literally everything else about the show (including it's creators) suggest it's based on Brittania. I've given you plenty of reasons why the “Holy Britannian Empire” but you can't give me one reason as to why “the holy Brittanian empire” isn't likely to be based on the Brittanian Empire. I mnot saying there arent similarities between "the holy britannian" empire, but im saying there is far more evidence suggesting that it is.

Honestly I'm amazed you can maintain you point of view when there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I'm respectfully not going argue any-more simply because I've already said everything that can be said regarding this matter and if you mind still isn't changed then it obvious im not going to make it change.

Oh also while the Nuclear bomb was created first by the US it is by no means an American invention. The technology was pioneered by Einstein who was German in the first place. And half the major powers where conducting nuclear research, the US just happened finished it first.And it stands to reason that if north ammerica was still controlled by Britian then admiral perry would have been considered british as opposed to american.

So yeah If you still think the "Holy BRITANIAN Empire" is based on the USA. And the USJ is based On the USA also but an earlier version (becuase one reference to the US isn't enough rite?). Then more power to you, im never going to be able to convince you otherwise. So this discussion is going no-where so im ending it. I wish you good health.


Well I respect your opinions too and I too wish you good health. No doubt the culture is English in nature (probably due to the Welsh Tudors staying in power and the Arthurian Legends come from Wales).

Just to note, you earlier said the creators didn't base Britannia on any real source, but now you're saying they based it on the real Britannia (which doesn't really exactly exists). Also one more question to ask, if the creators had every attempt to make Britannia=UK, then why make their main territory the Western Hemisphere instead of the British Isles? Wouldn't that make more sense? Your idea doesn't address the geography and the lack of the British Isles, Britain's heart and a major hurdle.

Like I said before, maybe, just maybe Holy Britannian Empire=USA+UK
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damien007



Joined: 23 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:59 am Reply with quote
kaiser11492 wrote:


Well I respect your opinions too and I too wish you good health. No doubt the culture is English in nature (probably due to the Welsh Tudors staying in power and the Arthurian Legends come from Wales).

Just to note, you earlier said the creators didn't base Britannia on any real source, but now you're saying they based it on the real Britannia (which doesn't really exactly exists). Also one more question to ask, if the creators had every attempt to make Britannia=UK, then why make their main territory the Western Hemisphere instead of the British Isles? Wouldn't that make more sense? Your idea doesn't address the geography and the lack of the British Isles, Britain's heart and a major hurdle.

Like I said before, maybe, just maybe Holy Britannian Empire=USA+UK


I'll make one more post just to clarify

Sorry for the confusion, when i say the real Britannia I'm referring to Britain (as you pointed out, one is just the effeminate form of the other). Also I thought I had pointed this out twice now but, it is quite clearly said by one of Lelouches teachers in the early episodes that one of the topics in the upcoming quiz would be the "transfer of the capital to the new world". Unless someone can come up with a better alternative i think it's safe to assume that there referring to the capital being moved from London to the new capital of pendragon in north America (which is was often called the "new world" as I'm sure you know). There could be a number of reasons why this happened (I'm personally partial to the idea it was due to war with the EU). The fact the they said the capital was moved from london to north america is enough of a reason to explain why the emire is based out of north america (the reason why the capital was moved is ultimately irrelevant). As for a reason why the creators felt this was necessary? I would believe they felt that there would to much crossover between the EU and the Britannian empire if the Britannian isles remained under the empires control. And really if you think about it in the event of war between the brittanian empire and the EU it's quite plausible that the British isles would be conquered. Ultimately the Americas are a far more valuable resource then the British isles and it quite plausible that they would be willing to sacrafice it (hence the transfer of the capital). It's a bit of a stretch I agree but id like to see some other explanation of what "the transfer of the capital to the new world" referred to.

Also I'm positive that i never said anywhere that I believed the "holy Britannian Empire" wasn't based on anything. If it came across like that it was a mus-communication on my part. I've maintained since my first post (the second one in the thread) that I believe the "holy Britannian empire" was based on the British empire
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kaiser11492



Joined: 19 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:45 am Reply with quote
damien007 wrote:
kaiser11492 wrote:


Well I respect your opinions too and I too wish you good health. No doubt the culture is English in nature (probably due to the Welsh Tudors staying in power and the Arthurian Legends come from Wales).

Just to note, you earlier said the creators didn't base Britannia on any real source, but now you're saying they based it on the real Britannia (which doesn't really exactly exists). Also one more question to ask, if the creators had every attempt to make Britannia=UK, then why make their main territory the Western Hemisphere instead of the British Isles? Wouldn't that make more sense? Your idea doesn't address the geography and the lack of the British Isles, Britain's heart and a major hurdle.

Like I said before, maybe, just maybe Holy Britannian Empire=USA+UK


I'll make one more post just to clarify

Sorry for the confusion, when i say the real Britannia I'm referring to Britain (as you pointed out, one is just the effeminate form of the other). Also I thought I had pointed this out twice now but, it is quite clearly said by one of Lelouches teachers in the early episodes that one of the topics in the upcoming quiz would be the "transfer of the capital to the new world". Unless someone can come up with a better alternative i think it's safe to assume that there referring to the capital being moved from London to the new capital of pendragon in north America (which is was often called the "new world" as I'm sure you know). There could be a number of reasons why this happened (I'm personally partial to the idea it was due to war with the EU). The fact the they said the capital was moved from london to north america is enough of a reason to explain why the emire is based out of north america (the reason why the capital was moved is ultimately irrelevant). As for a reason why the creators felt this was necessary? I would believe they felt that there would to much crossover between the EU and the Britannian empire if the Britannian isles remained under the empires control. And really if you think about it in the event of war between the brittanian empire and the EU it's quite plausible that the British isles would be conquered. Ultimately the Americas are a far more valuable resource then the British isles and it quite plausible that they would be willing to sacrafice it (hence the transfer of the capital). It's a bit of a stretch I agree but id like to see some other explanation of what "the transfer of the capital to the new world" referred to.

Also I'm positive that i never said anywhere that I believed the "holy Britannian Empire" wasn't based on anything. If it came across like that it was a mus-communication on my part. I've maintained since my first post (the second one in the thread) that I believe the "holy Britannian empire" was based on the British empire


Britain lost the British Isles to Napoleon due to a French victory at Trafalgar. I'm also not debating Britannia is a descendant of the former British Empire. I totally agree with that. But one could say Britannia is like the USA because the USA is descended from Britain. Also look in Japanese history. What is the only country to ever conquer Japan? The USA after WWII.
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damien007



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:52 am Reply with quote
kaiser11492 wrote:

Britain lost the British Isles to Napoleon due to a French victory at Trafalgar. I'm also not debating Britannia is a descendant of the former British Empire. I totally agree with that. But one could say Britannia is like the USA because the USA is descended from Britain. Also look in Japanese history. What is the only country to ever conquer Japan? The USA after WWII.


So wait? we both agree that "The holy britannian Empire" was based on the british empire? Then what have we been arguing lol. I totally agree that there are a few similarities between the USA and britannia but they're coincidental at best.
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Luvcreole



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:30 pm Reply with quote
kaiser11492 wrote:
damien007 wrote:
kaiser11492 wrote:


Well I respect your opinions too and I too wish you good health. No doubt the culture is English in nature (probably due to the Welsh Tudors staying in power and the Arthurian Legends come from Wales).

Just to note, you earlier said the creators didn't base Britannia on any real source, but now you're saying they based it on the real Britannia (which doesn't really exactly exists). Also one more question to ask, if the creators had every attempt to make Britannia=UK, then why make their main territory the Western Hemisphere instead of the British Isles? Wouldn't that make more sense? Your idea doesn't address the geography and the lack of the British Isles, Britain's heart and a major hurdle.

Like I said before, maybe, just maybe Holy Britannian Empire=USA+UK


I'll make one more post just to clarify

Sorry for the confusion, when i say the real Britannia I'm referring to Britain (as you pointed out, one is just the effeminate form of the other). Also I thought I had pointed this out twice now but, it is quite clearly said by one of Lelouches teachers in the early episodes that one of the topics in the upcoming quiz would be the "transfer of the capital to the new world". Unless someone can come up with a better alternative i think it's safe to assume that there referring to the capital being moved from London to the new capital of pendragon in north America (which is was often called the "new world" as I'm sure you know). There could be a number of reasons why this happened (I'm personally partial to the idea it was due to war with the EU). The fact the they said the capital was moved from london to north america is enough of a reason to explain why the emire is based out of north america (the reason why the capital was moved is ultimately irrelevant). As for a reason why the creators felt this was necessary? I would believe they felt that there would to much crossover between the EU and the Britannian empire if the Britannian isles remained under the empires control. And really if you think about it in the event of war between the brittanian empire and the EU it's quite plausible that the British isles would be conquered. Ultimately the Americas are a far more valuable resource then the British isles and it quite plausible that they would be willing to sacrafice it (hence the transfer of the capital). It's a bit of a stretch I agree but id like to see some other explanation of what "the transfer of the capital to the new world" referred to.

Also I'm positive that i never said anywhere that I believed the "holy Britannian Empire" wasn't based on anything. If it came across like that it was a mus-communication on my part. I've maintained since my first post (the second one in the thread) that I believe the "holy Britannian empire" was based on the British empire


Britain lost the British Isles to Napoleon due to a French victory at Trafalgar. I'm also not debating Britannia is a descendant of the former British Empire. I totally agree with that. But one could say Britannia is like the USA because the USA is descended from Britain. Also look in Japanese history. What is the only country to ever conquer Japan? The USA after WWII.


After reading over all the replies on the board, I'd have to say Kaiser, you've given the most convincing testamony as to what Britannia represents. I know somebody even quoted what the writers themselves said when questioned about the show's Anti-American bent, and even though they seemed to have dismissed any ideas on the matter, one cannot be quick to take everything on face value. In other words, people can and often do LIE...especially if there's something valuable at risk. Like, umm..in this case, viewship and sales? Tell me, I know another person early on made it quite clear sarcastically if the show actually had been based on a political statement against the U.S., they would've opted out of watching the show on that basis alone. Do NOT think for a second, the shows producers haven't thought of that...trust me. And if anyone doubts that politcs is in Japanese anime, check out the anime: "The Place Promised In Our Early Days" and try to tell me that isn't a political slap at the United States. Especially since the U.S. is specifically mentioned by name as occupying most of Japan, leaving Japan with a remnant of it's former self after WW2.

In light of studying college/history buff level American history, I can say this. The vast majority of Americans are ignorant about the full details of how events unfolded in the past beyond the school house versions...much of which have been sanitized, over simplified, and patriotized for ready consumption. Things which are too widely known have "damage control" done to them, acknowledging that wrongs in general occurred, but no real details of just how bad they were are given..AND we are sure to end on a positive note of how politically they were resolved. What you don't get is what happens behind the scenes by ambitious men, seeking to gain advantages for themselves at everyone's expense...both ordinary Americans and others abroad. Take WW2 for example. School house versions start with the rise of Hitler in Europe, and with Japan's Invasion of Manchuria in China in Asia. America gets involved after sactioning Japan for it's aggression, and Japan hits Pearl Harbor in retaliation. We focus on the massive slaughter at Pearl, the temendous indignation of America at it's Day of Infamy, and the sleeping giant awakens to pound the Japanese to smithereens. Sounds about right, yeah? Well left out was how Japan and America met in the first place. Starting with Commodore Perry and the Black Fleet. The U.S. Navy says Perry was on a mission to open trade to Japan, and to extend protection and friendship to the isolated nation, currently only trading with the Dutch at the time. By this time, most of Asia had been dominated by Europe and to a lesser degree, America...and had been economically subverted by the "Unequal Treaties" Look it up on Google to see what it was...just know that it made the Asian nations little more than reserviors of cheap almost slave-like labor, with massive pools of resources and land at cheap prices for the West to use. The only Asianss who benefitted were those who sold out the interests of their own people to placate the Western powers....although one could argue, what other choice did they have considering the West's technological and military strength over Asia. Japan was so determined not to fall, they deliberately sent Japanese men abroad to study in the West....with the goal to acheive: "Western Industry, Eastern culture" Look it up...it's in history...(just not our version) This is how Japan managed to beat Russia in 1905, and thus so scared the European/American powerbrokers, they demanded Japan to restrict the number of Battleships they produced They were allowed ONE battleship to every FIVE of America and Britain. Considering how the Battle of the Pacific turned out, we would have been in trouble if that agreement hadn't bee reached.

The point here is this. Blind patriotism is dangerous...and we have it bad in America. Until people realize that we came from Britain, and even though we broke away from them over how they were treating us, we sought to deny those rights to the very slaves who allowed our own Founders and Planter class (America's aristocrisy) to become wealthy over ordinary white Americans. The Civil War was a continuation of that hypocrisy...and it goes on even today with the 1% against the 99%. Human beings are very adept at spinning things whenever one is under scrutiny. To think the U.S. is/has been some benevolent benefactor towards the world just because it makes us feel good about ourselves is setting us up for trouble. Eveybody has done wrong out of self interest...even terrible things. It's the nature of the world. America cannot be exempted from this just because it doesn't rub us right....and one way to see yourself more accurately IS listening to what others have to say about you as well as what you do. (Even if they don't want to say it openly for fear of losing friendship or money) Great job getting your point across Kaiser....
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:34 am Reply with quote
Let's be careful here people. A few posts have been removed (as you might notice) as they were obvious trolling and completely politically oriented discussion about current events. Remember, this is not a political forum. While it's plain to see some history and political history may come in to play in this thread, and that's fine, just be sure to keep it civil and not make it inflammatory towards others (as the the post that was removed was obviously going for).
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SereneChaos



Joined: 14 Oct 2011
Posts: 373
Location: Middle of Nowhere, USA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:23 pm Reply with quote
Luvcreole wrote:
In light of studying college/history buff level American history, I can say this. The vast majority of Americans are ignorant about the full details of how events unfolded in the past beyond the school house versions...much of which have been sanitized, over simplified, and patriotized for ready consumption.


Forget details, a lot of Americans don't even know general American history. They couldn't tell you what war was fought for independence or who the two sides of the Civil War were. Laughing

I think this image represents my feeling on this issue. Sure, maybe the writers wanted it to be a metaphor for the British (or some other) Empire. Or maybe it's not that deep, and it's just there to be an oppressive government to rebel against. I usually don't look for deeper meaning in most anime because it's usually not there. If it is a metaphor thought, I think it's fairly obvious it's the British Empire.
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