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Dub VS. Sub?


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Which do you prefer--Dubs or Subs?
Dubs
38%
 38%  [ 170 ]
Subs
61%
 61%  [ 269 ]
Total Votes : 439

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Polycell
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:23 am Reply with quote
Divineking wrote:
Honestly I'm surprised this isn't obvious to you. Of course no one would want to see a foreign film dubbed, their live action and therefore it's obviously going to be extremely distracting to hear a voice that obviously isn't the same as the person you seeing on screen and that can take away from the experience. With animation that's obviously not an issue and therefore so long as the english VA's can act and tbe scripting is fine your generally not losing out one way or the other and it basically comes down to preference
As I said earlier, live action movies are dubbed all the time; in my German class we even watched Harry Potter in German(with German subtitles as well).
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4035

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:09 pm Reply with quote
SereneChaos wrote:
For starters, I don't think most anime fans care much about their critics badge. We're mainly watching for entertainment, not to dissect it and write a 10 page thesis on it. People are going to watch whatever way gives them the most entertainment, whether that way is the original and "truer" way or not.


And that is a big problem with the more casual side of the fanbase. This is the only reason I can fathom why 'gag dubs' are allowed to exist and they aren't shunned for being completely disrespectful to the source material, especially if they come at the expense of a proper uncut release.

Quote:
Then there's the fact that the vast majority of the population absolutely refuses to watch anything with subtitles. It would be way harder (and often impossible) to get someone to watch anime with subtitles if they're not use to them. Without dubs, anime would become even more niche because it would be so much harder to introduce it to others.


But why do we care what the vast majority thinks? Let alone people who don't like anime to begin with? It seems like such an odd thing to willingly want to alter or dumb down your own passion for the sake of someone else, rather than find people who share the passion just as much as you, which isn't a hard thing to do and anime is one of the hugest 'niches' out there.

Quote:
Finally, I think the largest reason is the simplicity of the mouths in anime. Characters' mouths are either open or closed, they don't bother animating anything more specific than that. Matching mouth flaps is relatively easy in anime dubbing, and it usually looks pretty natural. Making it look anywhere close to natural in live action is almost impossible because the mouth movements are more detailed.


The dislike it gets for films (and anime) has more to do than just mouth flaps, things that can also apply to anime is the speed of which they have to be read, either way too fast or way too slow, or with unnatural pauses. Not to mention when the inevitable 'liberties' are taken like American slang, dialect, censorship, and etcetera. Even dubs that are "uncut" can feel completely different from the subtitle track with all the liberties and changes they make, like Steins;Gate for example.

Polycell wrote:
Anime is weird because it teeters right on that precipice of being mainstream enough to warrant a dub for shows but being niche enough that the original-only crowd can be heard loud and clear.


And this is probably the problem, we're stuck between a market and audience who just flat out to not care about the original version of their foriegn work (Code Lyoko, Totally Spies, Winx Club, other European cartoons that get dubbed and don't have an uncut subbed option. They don't even have fansubs) and a market where you probably couldn't get away with doing it with anyone more into the medium than the casual viewer (live-action foreign films)

At times I suppose being in the middle is worse than being one of the extremes. At least with either side you're surrounded by like-minded people; but in the middle you'll constantly clash heads with people with opposite view points. This is probably the only fandom that will hang and abandon a company for not releasing a show uncut, but then turn around and worship whatever heavily altered dub 4Kids or Funimation gives them. Very odd.
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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5557
Location: Coon Rapids, MN

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:31 pm Reply with quote
Give your rampant fanboyism a rest TitanXL. You'll have to excuse this guy people, as far as the world he sees Japan occupies the center of the universe. I get really tired of your rabid purism and Japanocentric lectures that constantly center around prejudice and excessive bias than any sense of reality. Don't sit here and argue that people are "dumbing down" your fandom by liking something just because you like it or feel that it's "disrespectful".

You take it way too seriously to the point you clearly don't know how to actually take in entertainment anymore, but we're all sick of your lectures about how someones perception of the entertainment is so bad because it doesn't equal your self-inflated "refinement". Like it or not some people enjoy something you don't enjoy, and they don't see all the "proof" that you continue to spit out as to why their enjoyment is flawed because, frankly, a lot of that "proof" is centered upon your own subjective viewpoint which everyone at this point knows lacks any kind of open-mindedness.

So cut the condescending garbage where you continue to crap on anyone and everyone as bad fans and unrefined fans and dumbed-down fans because they don't meet your ridiculous standards of refinement. Don't like dubs? Don't watch them then, but I'm sick of your passive-aggressive attacks towards those that do and your constant japanocentric lectures about how everyone but you is so evil and destroying the japanese culture. Give it a rest.
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 1960
Location: Mexico

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:50 am Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
Divineking wrote:
Honestly I'm surprised this isn't obvious to you. Of course no one would want to see a foreign film dubbed, their live action and therefore it's obviously going to be extremely distracting to hear a voice that obviously isn't the same as the person you seeing on screen and that can take away from the experience. With animation that's obviously not an issue and therefore so long as the english VA's can act and tbe scripting is fine your generally not losing out one way or the other and it basically comes down to preference
As I said earlier, live action movies are dubbed all the time; in my German class we even watched Harry Potter in German(with German subtitles as well).


To this I'll add that, in Spain, every film that makes it into the theaters does so in dub, never subbed, due to some legal thing about the official language and what not.

In Mexico, most films get a sub and a dub release,be it live-action or not. Whether or not this is good or bad I'll leave to personal taste
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 1024
Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:24 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
SereneChaos wrote:
Then there's the fact that the vast majority of the population absolutely refuses to watch anything with subtitles. It would be way harder (and often impossible) to get someone to watch anime with subtitles if they're not use to them. Without dubs, anime would become even more niche because it would be so much harder to introduce it to others.


But why do we care what the vast majority thinks?

I do not know who you mean by "we" but the people who are investing money to produce anime in North America care about what the vast majority of the population thinks because the vast majority of the population has the vast majority of the money to spend on entertainment.
The publishers want as much of that money as they can get.

Quote:
Let alone people who don't like anime to begin with?

I think that the Holy Grail of North American publishers is a show that will be popular with people who are not anime fans, yet. There is a huge potential customer base, and a huge potential profit, for any publisher who can tap in to it.
Selling to those potential customers would require marketing outside of anime fandom. I think that a dub would be necessary for that.
I suspect that the future of anime in North America depends upon the support of those "people who don't like anime."

It all comes down to the fact that for the people who provide the anime it is a business, not a hobby. They have different priorities than you do.
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
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Location: Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:19 pm Reply with quote
Touma wrote:

the vast majority of the population has the vast majority of the money


Not to get political, but this statement is just wrong in so many levels
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Polycell
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:00 pm Reply with quote
CrowLia wrote:
Touma wrote:

the vast majority of the population has the vast majority of the money


Not to get political, but this statement is just wrong in so many levels
In absolute terms, yes(not helped by the fact that those who seek to reinforce the gap can rely on those who hate it to help them reinforce it). In the terms an entertainment business would be concerned with, no.
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DomonX2



Joined: 14 Sep 2012
Posts: 232
Location: Neo Toronto, Neo Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:35 am Reply with quote
Dub vs Sub for me? I usually prefer the subbed versions, but will give dubs a chance, as long as their name is not called Evangelion or most Funimation dubs or any hack job style dub. If a show's English/other language audio was recorded in tandem AND released around the same time as the Japanese version, I don't treat it as a dub. Example. I would judge Tenchi in Love differently than I would judge Dragon Ball Z, since Tenchi in Love's English audio is the original and not technically a dub. If you consider Monsuno Japanese, the English voices are still the original audio. Dragon Ball never had a good dub. Also, the dubbing has to be very close to the original script. A la Death Note, a la Big O, a la Gundam anything after Gundam 0083 for me to consider giving it a top tier score. S-A. Other than that, I don't really care.

Also @TitanXL, the English version of Totally Spies is not a dub. The show's partially Canadian anyway, so it's a stretch to say that Totally Spies is foreign(to me anyway)
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guildmaster



Joined: 17 Dec 2012
Posts: 325
Location: Hot & Humid FL

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:21 am Reply with quote
Dubs only if I am buying something. I won't spend money on something I can't listen to. Made that mistake exactly once. Besides a lot of the original voice actors in Japan are far older than the characters they are portraying, and you can hear it in their voices, especially the women.

If it's something I got off the net, I'll tolerate subbed episodes, but it's a PITA to try to read and watch at the same time, especially if the subtitles are cut off too quick.
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Ghost«OF»Snake



Joined: 04 Jan 2013
Posts: 16
Location: Massadora, Greed Island.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:50 am Reply with quote
Dubs Sucks in many levels. when I was a kid I used to watch Anime in a (Syrian) tv channel where they was not only changing the names of the Anime titles but also character names and stores, end shows before there times (like Naruto THEY Only aired 70 episodes from the first part and title for that episode was THE END) and when I grow up I watched Anime in subs and Oh MY GOD!!! I couldn't believe how different it was from what I was watching back in time I had to watch every Anime again my life was a lie. so I only see Anime in streaming web site's.
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Knoepfchen



Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 479
Location: Catalonia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:15 pm Reply with quote
Subs. Just a personal preference, not a statement which is better. Why?

It's the original language. Might not be as important for animated films and series as it is for live action ones (where dubs are really irritating for me), but still: The story gets written in Japanese, the timing fits the language, the voice actors create and shape the characters etc. As someone mentioned before, anime that are set in a non-Japanese environment are, for my taste, easier to also enjoy in the English dub. But still, in dubs, even good ones, I am often irritated by non-matching emotions between spoken words and how the character acts on screen. Like how Roberto Benigni speaking anything but Italian in Life is beautiful doesn't really fit his acting, Amélie looses so much if not watched in French. And I'm not just talking about how the words don't match the mouth (which is not really that much of an issue in anime), but about the flair and feel as a whole.

But I want everything to have a decent dub, maybe even in German, to be able to show all my friends the stuff I love and treasure, since not everyone feels like I do and I always think it's sad that a missing dub might be the only reason someone is missing out on enjoying something wonderful.
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Panzer Vor



Joined: 04 Dec 2012
Posts: 341

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:29 pm Reply with quote
I voted dubs, but the truth is, I just take whatever's available if I'm interested in a show. If a show is sub-only, then I just watch the subs. If there's an English dub available, I try to give it a chance before I decide whether to continue with it or to just go back to the original Japanese audio instead. Simple as that, really.
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trilaan



Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 446
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:01 am Reply with quote
Subs on the whole. Any dub with Crispin Freeman.
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Psycho 101
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:07 pm Reply with quote
trilaan wrote:
Subs on the whole. Any dub with Crispin Freeman.

+5 for awesomeness. I heart Mr Freeman and his voice lol.
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trilaan



Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 446
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:52 am Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:

+5 for awesomeness. I heart Mr Freeman and his voice lol.


Every time I see his picture I think, yeah, he's definitely a High Elf.
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