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I really think the first story arc is a really good work and is worth reading on its own. Once you get the second volume things start to get silly and by the third it is in WTFs-ville. The last story was really disappointing to me, it didn't have that much Freeman in it and spoiler[was mostly him thinking about some old sweet heart he had before his marriage, ugh was a major ruining point to to me].

The only manga of his I have read was a couple chapters of Mad Bull 34 years ago. It was fun in a trashy way, and that's not really bad. I would rather read something that was stupid and a blast than some pretentious anime where the guy managed to throw in the beliefs of some obscure religion for no apparent reason.

Jason Thompson wrote:

Unlike Sanctuary and Strain, which are similarly macho but less ambitiously ridiculous, Ikegami's work with Koike always pushes the boundaries of reality, and yet any given page looks as real as a movie.

But Crying Freeman doesn't have Bill Clinton!

I read the first volume of Crying Freeman that Dark Horse released when it came out. Enjoyed it for what it was but didn't bothered to seek out more. Other series were a higher priority, and I wasn't feeling some misogynistic, old skool trash with a lot of awesome poses. I discovered Lone Wolf and Cub after that, along with a few volumes of Sanctuary (is there a woman in that woman not raped?), and regretted not sticking with it. This makes me want to revisit and finish it.

Charred Knight wrote:

I would rather read something that was stupid and a blast than some pretentious anime where the guy managed to throw in the beliefs of some obscure religion for no apparent reason.

why hello Gatsu

What are you talking about? Gatsu from here? Why would anyone post as two different names for a period of 2 years? Why would anyone then use that name under numerous different forums for over 8 years?

Not sure why you're taking me literally. Your comment just reminded me of him pointlessly referencing distaste of Evangelion when it bears no relation to the topic.

ANYWAY.

Jason Thompson wrote:

The genitals are always a black stain of censorship mosaic or a blinding burst of white light, but it's pretty obvious what's happening.

One thing I forgot to ask about in the previous post: is this true of both editions? I seem to recall one mention of one of them has everything uncensored (Viz?), while the other has the genitals blurred out.

Charred Knight wrote:

I would rather read something that was stupid and a blast than some pretentious anime where the guy managed to throw in the beliefs of some obscure religion for no apparent reason.

Knowing full well that this is probably a conversation that started a long time ago and that I am probably opening a big can of worms but of what is this apropos?

vashfanatic wrote:

Charred Knight wrote:

I would rather read something that was stupid and a blast than some pretentious anime where the guy managed to throw in the beliefs of some obscure religion for no apparent reason.

Knowing full well that this is probably a conversation that started a long time ago and that I am probably opening a big can of worms but of what is this apropos?

Nothing in particular, all I am saying is that I would rather watch something that was entertaining but stupid (like Koike's later works), than something that had a ton of research, but had no real purpose. A good example is the second season of Big O 2 which didn't seem to have a real point to all the talk of tomatoes (instead of just saying clone) and bizarre imagery.

I picked up the first Dark Horse volume years ago and always meant to get around to the rest but somehow it just isn't as compulsively masochistic a reading experience as the inadvertently hilarious Wounded Man and Offered.

I should probably give the series another go at some point.

Charred Knight wrote:

Nothing in particular, all I am saying is that I would rather watch something that was entertaining but stupid (like Koike's later works), than something that had a ton of research, but had no real purpose. A good example is the second season of Big O 2 which didn't seem to have a real point to all the talk of tomatoes (instead of just saying clone) and bizarre imagery.

My understanding is that they were aiming for a third season which presumably would have made it all make sense... or something. Also, I don't remember many religious references beyond the strange not!Christmas episode, but it's been a while.

I read all of Lone Wolf and Cub and would sort of like half of those hours back. There was no reason that thing had to be 27 volumes long, and by the end I was only reading it because I wanted Daigorou to be okay; I'd stopped caring about the main character, and I was thoroughly convinced that his "bushido" was the most inhumane and unappealing ethical code ever created. That, and yes, every single woman in it gets naked or raped or masturbates on stage, etc. I can't imagine reading any of his other stuff.

Bonham wrote:

Jason Thompson wrote:

The genitals are always a black stain of censorship mosaic or a blinding burst of white light, but it's pretty obvious what's happening.

One thing I forgot to ask about in the previous post: is this true of both editions? I seem to recall one mention of one of them has everything uncensored (Viz?), while the other has the genitals blurred out.

The original Japanese edition is censored, and so is the Viz edition (although it's still super-adult even with the missing junk). That's just how it was/is in the world of seinen manga.

The only adult manga I can think of which was 'un-censored' in its US edition was some of Fantagraphics/Eros Mangerotica/Studio Proteus' p*rn manga, in which they got the original artist to draw back in the genitals. I can't remember which titles though.

Quote:

VIZ had trouble selling Crying Freeman in the US because comic stores thought it was too pornographic

Actually, I was surprised I could just pick up a copy and read it, but had to be 18 to go to the "underground" comic section to check out stuff like Cutey Honey. Laughing

Quote:

Daryl Surat, one of America's most outspoken Koike fans, criticized American fans for not appreciating Koike. "Virtually nobody in America knows who he is. Most who do know do not like him, writing him off as a chauvinist lunatic and perhaps only recommending his work for "ironic" entertainment."

I liked the first third of Freeman, but the rest is bad fetish porn. No, I do not wanna see a fat chick pee, or an old lady's saggy tits. Though I am surprised they got away with that story about the yakuza moll who has a proto-shota fetish, because you'd figure that would've been edited in the original story.

Quote:

but it's far better than Ikegami's later work like the mediocre Strain.

Thank you! I was also underwhelmed by Strain. And I really wanted to like it.

Quote:

Would a badass, handsome super-assassin struggling to remain faithful to his wife have made a more interesting manga?

Wouldn't that basically be True Lies? Laughing

vash: I wanted to get into LW+C, but the colloquial jargon killed it for me. Though if you wanna check out a samurai series with no "morals", you could always buy some Nemuri Kyoshiro from Animeigo.

It seems like only yesterday that Jason Thompson was a guest on our podcast to talk about the madness that is Crying Freeman, but nope: it was over a year ago!

Back in the 1990s, Crying Freeman was actually fairly respected (tee hee) as a comic by virtue of its art and the fact it was a comic book with like, people getting hummers and stuff. Today, most people who even know what it is recognize it for the completely bonkers buffet of sex and violence it is (and that's why it is GREAT). No wonder I own the flipped Viz editions as well as two complete sets of the Dark Horse re-release! Like the majority of the current Vertical Inc. catalog, Crying Freeman seems to have always been one of those manga read primarily by people who wouldn't identify themselves as "manga fans" first and foremost. The anime is the same way.

In the latest issue of Otaku USA magazine (labeled "April 2011" with Eva 2.22 on the cover), I reviewed the anime adaptation of Crying Freeman. Unlike most other anime adaptations of Koike's work, that one's a very faithful, albeit abridged, adaptation of the source material from beginning to end. Much like the manga, the anime has been released multiple times in the United States: first by Streamline Pictures, then ADV Films, and most recently this version from Discotek. I too was unsure whether that was a bootleg or not based on the cover art, but worry not: the Right Stuf entry looks the same. I've not met many anime fans who have Crying Freeman in their collection, but some demographic out there must have been reliably buying it for it to have been released and re-released time and again over the decades. It is truly an "evergreen" property that has endured, the type that anime needs more of. The live-action movie starring Mark Dacascos is also quite good. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if it was ever released intact in the US, if at all. There is also a Hong Kong version of Crying Freeman in which the lead character spends most (all?) of the movie wearing that porcelain mask. That one's...well, "for fans only."

It's too bad Ryoichi Ikegami fell out of fashion because he is one of the most recognizable manga artists out there, and his art style is the perfect thing to hold up as a counterpoint to people who believe all manga operates under the visual tropes and general aesthetic most commonly seen within the pages of Shonen Jump. Is he even still working in Japan? Does he have any proteges or successors?

Anime World Order wrote:

It's too bad Ryoichi Ikegami fell out of fashion because he is one of the most recognizable manga artists out there, and his art style is the perfect thing to hold up as a counterpoint to people who believe all manga operates under the visual tropes and general aesthetic most commonly seen within the pages of Shonen Jump. Is he even still working in Japan? Does he have any proteges or successors?

He's currently working on LORD in Big Comic Superior, a historical Chinese manga written by Buronson. According to Japanese Wikipedia, his (ex-) assistants include Yoshihide Fujiwara, Kajiwara Matsuhisa and Misaki Sata.

It was awesome being on AWO and talking 'bout seinen manga with you!

AWO: The movie was never released here, but Mark's site once hinted it would happen. I guess Universal wasn't interested, even though they eventually put The Crow: Stairway to Heaven on DVD. For some reason, Viz would note the movie on the back of the Perfect Editions, too.

I never read the manga but I happened to find the entire series of the anime at my public library of all places ( and it was a conservative town to boot.) I rented it and I thought the anime was really good which made me want to find the manga but I couldn't find the viz editions. So once Dark Horse got the rights to it, I was happy because I want read it this year. I find Ikegami's art amazing just by looking at the covers for Crying Freeman and Sanctuary and ask " How the heck did he do that?" Thanks, Jason for your honest thoughts as always.

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