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Ranma824



Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 456
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:12 pm Reply with quote
SakechanBD wrote:
Ranma824 wrote:

Even more so then Koi Koi 7?! But as a side thought, is there anyone working for ANN that enjoys most harem shows and/or mindless antics?


Most harem shows and/or mindless antics? No. But there *are* people working for ANN who enjoy quality harem shows and clever shows with mindless antics, like Cromartie High School or School Rumble.


Alas, someone must speak for lonely otaku everywhere...

Anyway, Nice picks Very Happy Have to agree with those shows. So everyone at ANN has similar tastes? Or is it more like the Roman Colossem; it must impress all or thumbs-down?
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Erufu



Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 191
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:54 am Reply with quote
I know she says the novels are compilations of the manga, but is this true in the Scrapped Princess case? TokyoPop lists a novel coming out for it, and I have read that the Scrapped Princess manga is based on an original novel. Does anybody know if this is actually the original novel that's coming out?
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18138
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:37 am Reply with quote
Ranma824 wrote:
Anyway, Nice picks Very Happy Have to agree with those shows. So everyone at ANN has similar tastes? Or is it more like the Roman Colossem; it must impress all or thumbs-down?


Um, no.

Level of appreciation of dubs varies dramatically amongst the staff, for instance. I'm not a fan of (in general) magical girl or old-school mecha, and absolutely refuse to watch yaoi, but I know others on staff have entirely different opinions on those.

As for harem shows? There are some good ones out there (Ai Yori Aoshi), but they're generally outnumbered by the crappy ones (Hanaukyo Maid Team).
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Cloe
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Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 2728
Location: Los Angeles, CA
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:09 am Reply with quote
Ranma824 wrote:
So everyone at ANN has similar tastes? Or is it more like the Roman Colossem; it must impress all or thumbs-down?

I don't think that's the case. It's not simply restricted to ANN; I think that the majority of anime fandom in general is less likely to take a harem anime seriously. I mean, sure, there are the few titles that are charming enough to gain a very loyal fan base and respectable reviews, but in terms of gaining mass respect? It'll never happen.
It's like, oh, let's say... the teen movie genre in mainstream film. They're pointless, hyper-dramatic (no thanks to you, John Hughes), and often sexual in nature, but there are those few titles that have charmed the pants off everyone (Ferris Bueller is a personal favorite). But I doubt the day will come when teen movies sweep the oscars.
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Gauss



Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 519
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:16 pm Reply with quote
Erufu wrote:
I know she says the novels are compilations of the manga, but is this true in the Scrapped Princess case? TokyoPop lists a novel coming out for it, and I have read that the Scrapped Princess manga is based on an original novel. Does anybody know if this is actually the original novel that's coming out?


Scrapped Princess was originally a series of popular fantasy novels (eleven novels in all, I believe). Then a few years back a manga series was released, followed a year or two later by the anime. As far as I can tell the anime is not based directly on the manga, but rather condenses the storyline in the novels. However, the anime does lift the character designs lock stock and barrel from the manga. Where the audio dramas fit in chronologically I don't know.

As for Tokyopop, it should be the novels coming out.
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Tamakun



Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:15 am Reply with quote
On the topic of Audio Dramas:

I remember hearing that Key The Metal Idol had 4 Drama CDs, and I've been lucky enough to secure all four of them.

They delve further into stories untold about three major characters, pre-anime: Key, Miho, Sakura, and, if I remember correctly, Key again (but told after the events in the anime unfold).

Each CD came with a script, and the first-printings of the CDs came with some awesome omake (a photo of Key and Dr. Mima, Key's drawing, etc.). This attention to detail just added to the depth of the story as a whole.

There are some things that become even more emotional in the anime if you've listened to the Dramas beforehand, such as Key's request for Sakura to wake up. (Private-Message me if you'd like more details.)

I would've loved to have heard translated versions of these as well, and I had hoped because Viz had started to release music from Key The Metal Idol, but it never happened. They also came with some nice music tracks that were not on the anime soundtracks.

It's a great add-on to any series and I think they should be more often used to help flesh-out the characters, as they had with this series. (Slayers had a few Drama CDs, didn't they?)
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Tivome



Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:24 pm Reply with quote
Cloe wrote:
I don't think that's the case. It's not simply restricted to ANN; I think that the majority of anime fandom in general is less likely to take a harem anime seriously.


Western anime fandom? Or the original anime fandom? Anime fandom in Japan outside of kids are really just otakus. Harem series are VERY VERY important to Otakus. Otaku can invest most of their life savings on a very MO-E harem show. That's the core fandom. Outside of kids and Otakus, most people don't' watch anime aside from Sazae-san, Chibi Maruko-chan and the occasional Crayon Shin-chan. Why do you think anime houses produce fanservice or harem midnight anime like there's no tomorrow? From ANY source imaginable? Cus them Otakus can and will spend $30-$50 US on a two episode DVD and at least a few hundred dollars on associated otaku merchandise. Can you? Smile

Most American fans, being raised in the hypocritically puritanical society, where a little skin or simulated sex is much, MUCH worse than the murder or extreme violence,, will find harem or other "T 'n A" series objectionable I guess. Well, they ain't geared toward you folks, so really, just don't watch them. I don't get why one even bother writing a review on a genre which one find offensive. It's like some time ago a very straight and ignorant reader of American comics tried to review an Yaoi manga on a manga review site; It's beyond hysterical. ("Why would girls like gay men!?" Smile). Let someone who enjoy the genre write the review on harem anime so that at least the budgening American male otaku in self-denial can take advantage of the review.

Not saying I enjoy harem, but I would defend any otaku's right to enjoy them without negative implications. Smile
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Cloe
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Joined: 18 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:44 pm Reply with quote
Tivome wrote:
Western anime fandom? Or the original anime fandom? Anime fandom in Japan outside of kids are really just otakus. Harem series are VERY VERY important to Otakus. Otaku can invest most of their life savings on a very MO-E harem show. That's the core fandom. Outside of kids and Otakus, most people don't' watch anime aside from Sazae-san, Chibi Maruko-chan and the occasional Crayon Shin-chan. Why do you think anime houses produce fanservice or harem midnight anime like there's no tomorrow? From ANY source imaginable?

I'm not arguing that harem anime isn't popular, by any means. Nor that it has negative implications. I'm just saying that in general, harem anime has flatter, more one-dimensional characters and more poorly-written storylines (very likely due to the fact that they really are produced like there's no tomorrow), which leads to general eye-rolling when it comes time for critique, an assertion I've heard from the majority of fans--even from Japan--I've personally talked to. I'm certainly aware of how pivital harem and moe is to fandom. But I stand by my original assertion that it's often not taken seriously from an artistic point of view.

Quote:
Cus them Otakus can and will spend $30-$50 US on a two episode DVD and at least a few hundred dollars on associated otaku merchandise. Can you? Smile

Since I don't believe in fansubs, I often do. My most recent purchase was this.

Quote:
Most American fans, being raised in the hypocritically puritanical society, where a little skin or simulated sex is much, MUCH worse than the murder or extreme violence,, will find harem or other "T 'n A" series objectionable I guess. Well, they ain't geared toward you folks, so really, just don't watch them. I don't get why one even bother writing a review on a genre which one find offensive.
....
Not saying I enjoy harem, but I would defend any otaku's right to enjoy them without negative implications. Smile

Once again, I'm not stating that harem anime is offensive in any way, and I wonder where in my original post you gained that assumption. I just think they are, in general, silly titles that lack any real depth. And so do a lot of other people. That's all. And for the record, I'm sick and tired of being told what Americans find objectionable and what they don't, as if my nationality really has a say in what I should find enjoyment in watching. Good animation (or good anything, for that matter) is universal.
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Tempest
I Run this place.
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Joined: 29 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:29 pm Reply with quote
I happen to like Tenchi (watched it when it first came out 10+ years ago), Love Hina, and a few other Harem type shows.

But in general, harem shows are pretty crappy, they've become rather formulaic and often times the producers rely on the "1 guy fawned over by many girls" idea to atrtact enoough fans to the show.

As with any type of show, the setting alone should not be the shows single selling point.

And unfortunately since so many guys are so easilly manipulated, many producers go with harem type shows because they will be able to get an audience with very little effort.

In otherwords, there's nothing bad about the harem genre, but it's a genre that attract crappy productions.

-t
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Andromeda



Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 119
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:47 am Reply with quote
[quote="Tivome"]
Cloe wrote:
Most American fans, being raised in the hypocritically puritanical society, where a little skin or simulated sex is much, MUCH worse than the murder or extreme violence,, will find harem or other "T 'n A" series objectionable I guess.


You guessed wrong, bud. Stop judging every American by what the FCC and a few oversenstive parents disallow on public airwaves, OK? Rolling Eyes

1. Not every American parent, let alone American period, feels that sex is TEH EBOL. True, we have this weird cultural thing where sex=bad to expose minors to whereas (to an extent) violence = OK to expose minors to, but for ADULTS (which, don't kid yourself, is exactly the kind of audience that the more hardcore harem shows are for), sex is FINE. SOme weirdos might feel otherwise, but that's actually a minority. They're a vocal minority, but a minority nonetheless.

2. I don't mind "T n A"... so long as it has a POINT. I'm with CLoe on this one - I like my shows to have a little plot or a little something interesting, character-wise, beyond large breasts or bishies (because remember - T n A, and harem genre, goes both ways). Tenchi managed it, for instance. Interesting SF plots and great characters = good show. And that's a "harem" show, too. FY is OK, too - a bit melodramatic for my tastes, but not bad, IMHO - and that a shoujo harem series.

Also, you can get fan service without fan service being the only thing in a series - Tenchi proved that, even while being a harem show! Tenchi's "harem", but it also has great character interaction, good action sequences, good comedy, and genuine romantic conflict. And for non-harem shows, what about Eva? Eva has loads of fan service, especially early on *coughMisatocoughReicoughAsukacough*. And of course, it still had room for a plot, mystery, cool action, weird SF, truckloads of psychological, emotional, and intellectual depth, and interesting (if messed-up a bit) characters.

I don't mind "T n' A". I just find "T n' A" without a plot or point to it beyond "Look! Boobies!" to be boring in an anime.

Quote:

Well, they ain't geared toward you folks, so really, just don't watch them.


Excel Saga wasn't "geared towards us folks", either, but lots of us love it. Same with Evangelion, Ranma, and numerous other series. Technically speaking, MOST anime until very recently wasn't "geared" for Americans, it was "geared" for the Japanese. We still enjoy it, though.

Wink Also, despite the fact that Tenchi is a harem show that was aimed at guys, I love it to pieces - and I'M a girl! Well-made harem, harem made with care and attention paid to the plot and characters, can be enjoyable to MUCH more than the audience it was originally "geared" toward.

Quote:

I don't get why one even bother writing a review on a genre which one find offensive.


Yeah, it's not like we could warn people that if you hate maid shows, you're going to hate a particular maid show, or if you hate cheap, plotless harem, you'll not like a particular cheap, plotless harem show... wait. We can! That's right! That's the whole point of reviews, showing the reviewer's opinion and a critique, whether it be positive OR negative, of the work in question! Wink *ahem*

Quote:

It's like some time ago a very straight and ignorant reader of American comics tried to review an Yaoi manga on a manga review site; It's beyond hysterical. ("Why would girls like gay men!?" Smile).


Where the hell are you getting this from? No, seriously. I don't mean to be rude, but WHERE?

Quote:

Let someone who enjoy the genre write the review on harem anime so that at least the budgening American male otaku in self-denial can take advantage of the review.


Exactly what, praytell, was CLoe supposedly reviewing? By your own admission, this is what she said:

Quote:
I don't think that's the case. It's not simply restricted to ANN; I think that the majority of anime fandom in general is less likely to take a harem anime seriously.


By which, as she has made quite clear, she meant in the ARTISTIC sense. Fan service is hardly "artistic" in anything but the visual sense, and that only if you're lucky.

Also, she said "of anime fandom in general". Which means something closer to worldwide. Which means not JUST Japan and America?

And who but a very few in even Japan would "take harem anime seriously", save for as a way to make a quick buck? Very few, actually. Most otaku I know, even if they ENJOY a lot of harem anime, know it's fan service, and often NOT meant to be taken seriously. Hell, the best harem anime of all time, Tenchi, doesn't even take itself seriously, at least not all the time.

Quote:

Not saying I enjoy harem, but I would defend any otaku's right to enjoy them without negative implications. Smile


I also defend my right, and Cloe's, to be Americans without "negative implications", or to acknowledge that even though some harem anime is good (or great, like Tenchi is IMHO), a lot of it also SUCKS, probably because it's churned out so often, so quickly, and by so many. Mmmkay? Thanks.


-Andromeda
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Mach5Motorsport



Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Posts: 38
Location: CA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:25 pm Reply with quote
Akukaze wrote:
I have never heard of a drama series coming from an anime.


If you are talking about a live action drama, then you forgot about Maison Ikkoku and GTO both having live action counterparts. Cool
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