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NEWS: Oldest Anime Found


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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 7374
Location: England, UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:14 am Reply with quote
Considering the amount of distruction that Japan had to suffer during WW2 it's a miracle it has survived at all. BTW, the 6th of August was the 60th. anniversary of the A bombing of Hiroshima. The way it is discribed it sounds like it was an early attempt at an opening bumper for a feature that maybe never got created. Sort of like the MGM lion, or 20th. Century Fox's sphinx. A facinating find.
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DragonsRevenge



Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 1150

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 4:24 pm Reply with quote
Oh. Well, my plank/rock arguement still stands.
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Cloe
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Joined: 18 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 4:49 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
The way it is discribed it sounds like it was an early attempt at an opening bumper for a feature that maybe never got created. Sort of like the MGM lion, or 20th. Century Fox's sphinx. A facinating find.

I doubt it. Most early animation was incredibly short, be it Humurous Phases of Funny Faces or work from Émile Reynaud, which looped only 12 frames in the first short! It sounds more like the work of someone who became excited about animation--this is about the time it was first becoming discovered--and decided to experiment on his/her own, or on commission. Of course, I haven't seen it myself, so I don't know how much relevance my opinion has to the matter. Most old films and animations are part of the public domain now; it'll be interesting to see what happens to this.
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Tempest
ANN Publisher & CEO


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:11 pm Reply with quote
DragonsRevenge wrote:
Oh. Well, my plank/rock arguement still stands.


Not really. You were trying to argue that it didn't matter. If someone found a plank with rocks as wheels and that pre-dated the earliest known use of the wheel, it would be very important to people of that field.

Have you ever noticed how big of a deal the press makes about various archaeological finds?

Discovering the first "anime," as crude an animation as it may have been, is important to those who are interested in the history of anime.

And I'm certain not all anime fans are interested in the history, but I'm also certain that ANN has several thousands readers who are interested.

So no, I don't think your argument stands.

Your opinion that this doesn't matter as far as you are concerned, is completely legitimate though. As long as you recognize that it is important to others...

-t


Last edited by Tempest on Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LightNightmare148



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:03 pm Reply with quote
Does someone know if this has been uploaded to the internet? I would love to see this film.
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hitoyou



Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:29 pm Reply with quote
runpup wrote:
How long before ADV licenses it?


next week they will announce its coming out in a box set, retail price $119.99. Laughing
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wolfcry
ANN News Staff


Joined: 04 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:00 am Reply with quote
tempest wrote:
DragonsRevenge wrote:
Oh. Well, my plank/rock arguement still stands.


Not really. You were trying to argue that it didn't matter. If someone found a plank with rocks as wheels and that pre-dated the earliest known use of the wheel, it would be very important to people of that field.

Have you ever noticed how big of a deal the press makes about various archaeological finds?

Discovering the first "anime," as crude an animation as it may have been, is important to those who are interested in the history of anime.

And I'm certain not all anime fans are interested in the history, but I'm also certain that ANN has several thousands readers who are interested.

So no, I don't think your argument stands.

Your opinion that this doesn't matter as far as you are concerned, is completely legitimate though. As long as you recognize that it is important to others...

-t


Going along with T there..

Imagine if we found drawings, not even a plank and rocks, but just drawings and diagrams of a helicopter dating back the just after the middle ages? A helicopter? back then?!!! Well...yea. Im sure you know what im getting at here. Divinci had the IDEA of it, so can technically be called the father of helicopters. Its much more interesting to know who had the idea first to make these, than who actually came out and started mass producing these things. Whoever made this, can technically be called the father or mother of animation, untill we find proof otherwise. THAT is a ginormous deal.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:17 pm Reply with quote
wolfcry wrote:

Imagine if we found drawings, not even a plank and rocks, but just drawings and diagrams of a helicopter dating back the just after the middle ages? A helicopter? back then?!!! Well...yea. Im sure you know what im getting at here. Divinci had the IDEA of it, so can technically be called the father of helicopters. Its much more interesting to know who had the idea first to make these, than who actually came out and started mass producing these things. Whoever made this, can technically be called the father or mother of animation, untill we find proof otherwise. THAT is a ginormous deal.
Some say Da Vinchi got the idea from seeing a toy that was imported from China. Wink
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Erufu



Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:48 pm Reply with quote
wolfcry wrote:
Montusama wrote:
kusanagi-sama wrote:
Considering this was made around 1907, the person who made it is probably dead.

Considering the Wars that Japan had till the end of WWII this person is DEAD DEAD and even if this person didn't die from the wars this person would be more than 100 (unless he made this when he was just bored Very Happy) so finding the creator is probably impossible at least thru saying in a newspaper "Please Call us if you are the creator of this" and if they did such a thing (they won't) they could easly tell who was lying Razz


there's no question they're gone. In order to have the talent to make an animated picture, they would need to be in atleast their thirties. Remember, there wouldnt be any good schools or training programs to learn how to do this back then. The art would have had to have been practiced for years by them by the time they made that 3 second film.
I strongly disagree wit this. Since the action seems so simple and it's only 3 seconds long, it sounds like it is in the form of a flipbook. I highly doubt you can see the person writing out each word; it probably skips around alot and does not have smooth action. 30s is pretty old for somebody to be that can only do this. It sounds like it would have been played before a movie started. Maybe somebody got bored and started working on it. Maybe one of the few theatres there had this done by a worker or something to impress. If that was the case, you could find out who was working there. I don't know why yall think the person has to be alive to find. If you could track down the collection owner, they could possibly tell you or give you another lead to follow.
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wolfcry
ANN News Staff


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:59 pm Reply with quote
Erufu wrote:
wolfcry wrote:
Montusama wrote:
kusanagi-sama wrote:
Considering this was made around 1907, the person who made it is probably dead.

Considering the Wars that Japan had till the end of WWII this person is DEAD DEAD and even if this person didn't die from the wars this person would be more than 100 (unless he made this when he was just bored Very Happy) so finding the creator is probably impossible at least thru saying in a newspaper "Please Call us if you are the creator of this" and if they did such a thing (they won't) they could easly tell who was lying Razz


there's no question they're gone. In order to have the talent to make an animated picture, they would need to be in atleast their thirties. Remember, there wouldnt be any good schools or training programs to learn how to do this back then. The art would have had to have been practiced for years by them by the time they made that 3 second film.
I strongly disagree wit this. Since the action seems so simple and it's only 3 seconds long, it sounds like it is in the form of a flipbook. I highly doubt you can see the person writing out each word; it probably skips around alot and does not have smooth action. 30s is pretty old for somebody to be that can only do this. It sounds like it would have been played before a movie started. Maybe somebody got bored and started working on it. Maybe one of the few theatres there had this done by a worker or something to impress. If that was the case, you could find out who was working there. I don't know why yall think the person has to be alive to find. If you could track down the collection owner, they could possibly tell you or give you another lead to follow.


I still think your judging by today's standards. It would be VERY easy to do these days. Hell, you can make a 10 minute flash animation in a good half hour of work. But back then? almost 50 frames on this thing? That takes some work. Mor elight would be shone if we could see the detail on this thing, and like you said, how smooth it ran.

And yea. If proof of that toy surfaced, I garuntee THAT would be big news as well.
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Erufu



Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:56 am Reply with quote
wolfcry wrote:
Erufu wrote:
wolfcry wrote:
Montusama wrote:
kusanagi-sama wrote:
Considering this was made around 1907, the person who made it is probably dead.

Considering the Wars that Japan had till the end of WWII this person is DEAD DEAD and even if this person didn't die from the wars this person would be more than 100 (unless he made this when he was just bored Very Happy) so finding the creator is probably impossible at least thru saying in a newspaper "Please Call us if you are the creator of this" and if they did such a thing (they won't) they could easly tell who was lying Razz


there's no question they're gone. In order to have the talent to make an animated picture, they would need to be in atleast their thirties. Remember, there wouldnt be any good schools or training programs to learn how to do this back then. The art would have had to have been practiced for years by them by the time they made that 3 second film.
I strongly disagree wit this. Since the action seems so simple and it's only 3 seconds long, it sounds like it is in the form of a flipbook. I highly doubt you can see the person writing out each word; it probably skips around alot and does not have smooth action. 30s is pretty old for somebody to be that can only do this. It sounds like it would have been played before a movie started. Maybe somebody got bored and started working on it. Maybe one of the few theatres there had this done by a worker or something to impress. If that was the case, you could find out who was working there. I don't know why yall think the person has to be alive to find. If you could track down the collection owner, they could possibly tell you or give you another lead to follow.


I still think your judging by today's standards. It would be VERY easy to do these days. Hell, you can make a 10 minute flash animation in a good half hour of work. But back then? almost 50 frames on this thing? That takes some work. Mor elight would be shone if we could see the detail on this thing, and like you said, how smooth it ran.

And yea. If proof of that toy surfaced, I garuntee THAT would be big news as well.
I'm not going by today's standards. I'm not stupid enough to compare 1907 hand drawn animation with Flash programming. I'm saying that flip books are very easy to make. Little kids make them. If this film is that short, then it can be comparable to a flip book, and you don't need real skill to make a flip book.
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