Forum - View topic
NEWS: 4Kids Announces Second Quarter Results


Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Kenshin5000



Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:50 pm Reply with quote
Not likely, but I'm hoping that they lose enough money within the next year that they drop the One Piece license after 52 eps. They rushed all the way to the Chopper arc. Not only did they cut and splice episodes, but they cut out ENTIRE ARCS (Apis, Laboon, Little Garden).

This is bullshit. A series hasn't been treated this bad since Cardcaptor Sakura. If you go to 4Kids' official forums, it consists mainly of people complaining how they've messed up One Piece and other shows.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hso



Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 13
Location: England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:03 pm Reply with quote
yeah, they're complete idiots.
when will they understand the simple equation --

Bad translation + bad dub actors + cut scenes = no interest + no sales + ignorance :S

i actually like One Piece but refuse to watch the dub(hail Kaizoku Fansubs!), if 4kids actually made a decent job of it, then i probably would have bought a dvd of it(provided it had japanese audio), but in this state..... no way in hell
i'd rather stick a 40-pin IDE cable into my eye sockets than watch their dubbed crap
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
Zeiram



Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Posts: 317

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:06 pm Reply with quote
meh pansies (had 4 paragraphs that equate to this observation)

how would you market a successful show and keep it successful, porting it 'as is' aside? You'll have to keep in mind brand loyalty, marketting, sales, deals, contests, comercials, etc. ANyone studying this in school? I took a bit, but i couldn't write a report on it on a whim.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hso



Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 13
Location: England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:30 pm Reply with quote
heh, no idea Zeiram, but what I do know is, if i had to choose to live in one room for the rest of my life, one room containing a 200" screen with 4kids dubs on continous play, or a room filled with the black plague.... i'd take my chances with the plague, without second thoughts Y_Y atleast my death would be faster, but probably not as painful.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
hagakure|returns



Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 407

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:32 pm Reply with quote
Advent_Nebula wrote:
I hope 4kids goes under someday.


Yeah and what will kids 5 to 11 year old will watch? My little cousin who's about 6 loves Yugioh and One Piece. To him, they are kiddies cartoons, I don't mind if they butcher it if it means that my cousin get to enjoy some anime. Hey and there are tons of little kids that love 4kids stuff, they do not know how to use the internet yet so they can't defend themself from all these grown ass dorks who still watches theses children shows.

Hso wrote:
heh, no idea Zeiram, but what I do know is, if i had to choose to live in one room for the rest of my life, one room containing a 200" screen with 4kids dubs on continous play, or a room filled with the black plague.... i'd take my chances with the plague, without second thoughts Y_Y atleast my death would be faster, but probably not as painful.


I think you're looking at it from a fan point of view rather than a business point of view. Even if 4kids butcher the hell out of a show like yugioh, it still sells more in merchandise and dvd than most dvd out there. Your theory of selling unedit Yugioh or One Piece will be a success hasn't been proven, actually Yugioh and shaman king uncet dvd were stop due to poor sales.

If they release it uncut, they can't air it at certain time with restriction, thus it wouldn't reach the target audience: after school kids. The TCG sold really well and I know a lot of the Yugioh games usually hit the top 10.

You seem to whine a lot about 4kids rather than being reasonable. A lot of 4kids show area really kiddies, I don't bother watching them, perhaps you should look into more mature shows since there are already so many.

You rather die than to watch 4 kids dub? You're not serious right? Because that's an idiotic thing to say.


Last edited by hagakure|returns on Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:47 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
shenlongmizuno



Joined: 03 Aug 2005
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:51 pm Reply with quote
hagakure|returns wrote:
Advent_Nebula wrote:
I hope 4kids goes under someday.


Yeah and what will kids 5 to 11 year old will watch? My little cousin who's about 6 loves Yugioh and One Piece. To him, they are kiddies cartoons, I don't mind if they butcher it if it means that my cousin get to enjoy some anime. Hey and there are tons of little kids that love 4kids stuff, they do not know how to use the internet yet so they can't defend themself from all these grown ass dorks who still watches theses children shows.

Hso wrote:
heh, no idea Zeiram, but what I do know is, if i had to choose to live in one room for the rest of my life, one room containing a 200" screen with 4kids dubs on continous play, or a room filled with the black plague.... i'd take my chances with the plague, without second thoughts Y_Y atleast my death would be faster, but probably not as painful.


I think you're looking at it from a fan point of view rather than a business point of view. Even if 4kids butcher the hell out of a show like yugioh, it still sells more in merchandise and dvd than most dvd out there. Your theory of selling unedit Yugioh or One Piece will be a success hasn't been proven, actually Yugioh and shaman king uncet dvd were stop due to poor sales.

If they release it uncut, they can't air it at certain time with restriction, thus it wouldn't reach the target audience: after school kids. The TCG sold really well and I know a lot of the Yugioh games usually hit the top 10.

You seem to whine a lot about 4kids rather than being reasonable. A lot of 4kids show area really kiddies, I don't bother watching them, perhaps you should look into more mature shows since there are already so many.

You rather die than to watch 4 kids dub? You're not serious right? Because that's an idiotic thing to say.


Quoted for truth, plus the apis and little garden were terrible. I'd skip buying those discs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yashouzoid



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 411

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:39 pm Reply with quote
hagakure|returns wrote:
Yeah and what will kids 5 to 11 year old will watch?
Shows that are intended for them in the first place?

Quote:
I don't mind if they butcher it if it means that my cousin get to enjoy some anime.
I bet you thought Cardcaptors was great, too.

Quote:
Hey and there are tons of little kids that love 4kids stuff,
Not when 4Kids TV is pulling in a low 1.0 average they don't.

Quote:
grown ass dorks
Personal insult. -100 points. Oh, but while we're stereotyping, I'm only 13. You got anything to say to that?

Quote:
Your theory of selling unedit Yugioh or One Piece will be a success hasn't been proven, actually Yugioh and shaman king uncet dvd were stop due to poor sales.
Wrong. The success has been proven. Uncut Yu-Gi-Oh! and Shaman King were both successful. The only person who said otherwise? Al Kahn. Who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about (Let's see. The Kirby movie was not a movie at all. It was the last three episodes in Japan spliced into one "movie". There haven't been any successes in Japan until 4Kids started licensing? Yeah, that really explains Dragonball Z. Or better yet - your own property. Honestly, would 4Kids have picked up Pokemon if they didn't know it was a success?).

Crap man. My sources (which are very reliable) say that 4Kids actually tried getting Naruto at one point, but they couldn't because TV Tokyo saw One Piece's failure and gave it to Shopro instead (they compared OP in the US to InuYasha's success). One Piece already had an American following through Shonen Jump, WHY didn't they take advantage of that? 4Kids is in the anime industry, and they don't know what the hell they're doing.

Quote:
If they release it uncut, they can't air it at certain time with restriction, thus it wouldn't reach the target audience: after school kids.
That's what DVDs are for. I have never stated that I want an uncut version on TV. It'd be nice but I have enough sense to know it won't happen. But since you brought up the subject, two words: Dragonball Z.

Quote:
You seem to whine a lot about 4kids rather than being reasonable.
So I'm being unreasonable now? Look at 4Kids's results. It's obvious that their style of release - hacking up the TV dub and releasing 1 or 2 uncut DVDs before pulling it for no reason - isn't working out for them.

Quote:
perhaps you should look into more mature shows since there are already so many.
Perhaps you shouldn't tell people what they should watch.

Quote:
You rather die than to watch 4 kids dub? You're not serious right? Because that's an idiotic thing to say.
To the well organized mind, death is but the next great adventure.

I have no problem with 4Kids marketing shows to kids. However their perception of kids are ADD 5-year-olds who play Super Saiyan in the bathtub. I have no problem with 4Kids releasing edited DVDs. However their style of release is to wait 2-3 years before releasing a show uncut, where it'll only get one or two DVDs before being canceled. And when they're cutting out well over 30 episodes of material from a show, then there's a problem.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Michi
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 740
Location: San Francisco, California

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:48 pm Reply with quote
Hso wrote:
if 4kids actually made a decent job of it, then i probably would have bought a dvd of it(provided it had japanese audio), but in this state..... no way in hell
i'd rather stick a 40-pin IDE cable into my eye sockets than watch their dubbed crap


Like Shaman King and Yu-Gi-Oh, it'll probably get subbed uncut DVDs from someone else. So just hold out and wait for them, and then buy those to show the companies that people like the subbed versions. Razz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number My Anime My Manga
cubs2084



Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 206

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:56 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I hope 4kids goes under someday.


Agreed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address My Anime My Manga
wolfcry
ANN News Staff


Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:11 pm Reply with quote
Im tired, and its been a long day, so I wont go into a victory speech. Forgive my whiel I bluntly say:

"Teh w00t!!!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Cyan Bloodbane



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:28 pm Reply with quote
*raises glass*

Here's to 4kids declining sales! Hip hip HOORAY!

I wonder if there's a way we can help this along....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wyvern



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 655

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:30 pm Reply with quote
hagakure|returns wrote:


Yeah and what will kids 5 to 11 year old will watch?


Hey, you're right! I can't think of a single instance of 5 to 11 year old children watching ANYTHING on television before 4Kids came along. Too bad those Disney and Warner Bros guys hadn't thought to make shows for children; they missed out on a gold mine.


hagakure|returns wrote:

I think you're looking at it from a fan point of view rather than a business point of view. Even if 4kids butcher the hell out of a show like yugioh, it still sells more in merchandise and dvd than most dvd out there. Your theory of selling unedit Yugioh or One Piece will be a success hasn't been proven, actually Yugioh and shaman king uncet dvd were stop due to poor sales.


Actually, they sold pretty well, just not as well as the dub-only discs, which had several advantages-they were marketed better and had better distribution, AND they contain episodes from much later in the series; many fans, even hardcore fans, might not want to start all over at the begining if they've already seen 100 episodes of the dub.

hagakure|returns wrote:

If they release it uncut, they can't air it at certain time with restriction, thus it wouldn't reach the target audience: after school kids. The TCG sold really well and I know a lot of the Yugioh games usually hit the top 10.


Okay, here's the part where you offically start talking out of your bum. There've been scads of series, from Gundam to Outlaw Star to Dragon Ball to Kenshin to Tenchi, which have been big hits with afterschool kids and yet enjoyed minimal editing-and ALL of these shows contain more violence than Yugioh.

Almost all of Yugioh's "violence" is between virtual card characters; meanwhile, DBZ characters, even in the old Saban dub, routinly bled like fountains and ripped each other's arms off, yet the shows air in the SAME TIME SLOTS. The idea that 4Kids' success is tied to editing series is insane; thier success, like every other major TV studio's, lies in marketing, and in the ability to anticipate what the next big craze will be. They could have released every last episode of Yugioh as a perfectly translated dub with the original music left in, and not only would 90% of it pass S&P, it'd be just as successful. It's not like the Japanese version doesn't push the card game just as much as the American. But the company brass appears to be stuck in an outmoded 1980's Robotech-era mindset that says that all anime must be americanized to be successful here, despite the fact that that idea has been disproven about a dozen times by now.

hagakure|returns wrote:
You seem to whine a lot about 4kids rather than being reasonable. A lot of 4kids show area really kiddies, I don't bother watching them, perhaps you should look into more mature shows since there are already so many.

You rather die than to watch 4 kids dub? You're not serious right? Because that's an idiotic thing to say.


Okay, I've never met you, but I'm going to tell you everything about yourself, and I'll be right. Judging from your practically nonexsistant grammar skills, you're somewhere between 11-14 years old, going through your "I'M NOT A KID! I'M MATURE!" phase, and trying to express it by telling everyone how cool you are because you don't care if 4Kids butchers anime that you've decided are for kids. You not only know nothing about buissness and marketing (what 11 year old would?) you know nothing about the shows you're talking abou. You don't know, for example, that One Piece isn't considered a kid's show in its home country, and that the concept of kid's shows is fairly outdated in Japan anyway-OP merchandise is aimed at kids, but the show itself is aimed at everyone. There's no way it would attain the popularity to run for 225+ episodes without being aimed at all ages-not in a country with less than half the population of the US.

Anyway, practically every anime forum gets someone like you every two months or so, who tries to pass the time waiting for his voice to change by telling everyone how mature he is and how only the tiniest babies watch Show X. You're not the first, you won't be the last, and misinformed opinons like yours are a dime a dozen.

The insistance upon one's own maturity is always a telltale sign of the opposite. If you were really mature, you wouldn't feel the need to tell everyone about it; especially not a bunch of strangers on an internet forum.

Unless you're actually an adult, in which case...
hagakure|returns wrote:

A lot of 4kids show area really kiddies


...that's just sad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 12680

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:16 pm Reply with quote
hagakure:
Quote:
Even if 4kids butcher the hell out of a show like yugioh, it still sells more in merchandise and dvd than most dvd out there.


Actually, the article mentions that Shaman King is making more money than Yu Gi Oh right now, thus contradicting their claim that dub-and-edited anime are more likely to sell than subbed anime. I'm guessing it's because the kids they're marketing the show to are more likely to just watch whatever's on the air than to actually pay for it, unless they get their money's worth out of it.

Yashou:
Quote:
My sources (which are very reliable) say that 4Kids actually tried getting Naruto at one point, but they couldn't because TV Tokyo saw One Piece's failure and gave it to Shopro instead (they compared OP in the US to InuYasha's success).


One Piece was never that big in the U.S. in the first place. But it probably cost 4Kids so much money that they couldn't afford Naruto. And Viz's non-subbed songs, dumbed-down dialogue and 3 episode dvds aren't really a viable alternative to FUNimation's releases.

Quote:
One Piece already had an American following through Shonen Jump, WHY didn't they take advantage of that?


They did. They called it Shonen Jump's One Piece and advertised it in the magazine. It's doing as well as it can right now.

Wyvern:
Quote:
I can't think of a single instance of 5 to 11 year old children watching ANYTHING on television before 4Kids came along. Too bad those Disney and Warner Bros guys hadn't thought to make shows for children; they missed out on a gold mine.


I don't think anyone's watched Disney tv cartoons since Bonkers, which explains why people stopped watching them. And we all knew how WB ruined the Batman animated series with that cheaply-produced version with awful character designs-not to mention that weak Superman cartoon. Add declining quality writing in later seasons of Animaniacs and that POS Hysteria, and their ratings were pretty much slipping until Pokemon and Yu Gi Oh came along.

[/quote]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Akukaze



Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 185
Location: Stony Brook, NY

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:32 pm Reply with quote
Wyvern wrote:
hagakure|returns wrote:


Yeah and what will kids 5 to 11 year old will watch?


Hey, you're right! I can't think of a single instance of 5 to 11 year old children watching ANYTHING on television before 4Kids came along. Too bad those Disney and Warner Bros guys hadn't thought to make shows for children; they missed out on a gold mine.


I would like to point out that 4Kids anime is the only anime played on basic cable. What happens to "kiddie" anime when 4Kids goes under? Not everyone in America has cable and can watch Toonami. Will another company, this time one with respect for the original, jump up to bring anime to Fox and WB Kids? I doubt it.

And that isn't a good thing. I don't know if any of you have noticed, but the American anime industry is dropping on all sides. The "consuming boom" is over, but the "producing boom" is not, meaning that a lot of anime companies are facing some financial issues. If 4Kids is gone, what we're left with are the more "hardcore" companies that have always had trouble catering to a wider audience. With shows like Sailor Moon, Yu-Gi-Oh and DBZ pulling in new fans, the market will be faced with even greater problems.

I do not agree with most of the edits made to 4Kids shows, but if they get the job done, I'm willing to live with it. People always b**ch and moan about the lack of uncut DVDs, but there are always uncut DVDs: the original Japanese DVDs. Sure they're three times as expensive as American DVDs, but they do exist, and there are plenty of places to buy them online.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Demaar



Joined: 29 May 2004
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:56 pm Reply with quote
I'm seeing lots of childishness here on both sides of the fence. Those who are against 4kids are greatly exaggerating their disdain for them to the point of making themselves look like fools, while those who are defending 4kids are going to almost as great lengths to defend them.
Sure, 4kids need to make shows more marketable and so forth. But guess what? Their target audience won't care if you leave stuff intact or not, so why not go for the path that makes everyone happy? Besides, you or I may not have enjoyed the Lapis arc, but I'm sure a buttload of kids would have. "A little girl with the same powers all these grown ups have?! With the power to talk to dragons?! OMG I wish I was her!!".

Anyway, I'm kind of losing sight of what I was trying to say here, so I'll leave at this: 4Kids are pretty damn bad, but not suicidal bad. If someone held a gun to my head and said "what those damn dubs or I'll blow your brains out!!!" I'd sit and watch dammit.
At the same time though, I just can't deny how bad their dubs are, and needlessly bad to boot! Hell, I saw better dubs come out of Saban when they were still doing stuff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group