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NEWS: Toei Replaces Possibly Infringing Dragon Ball Kai Music


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SaiyanHero16



Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Posts: 265
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:34 am Reply with quote
I don't suppose anyone one knows which tracks they're talking about?
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jacksonh



Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:05 am Reply with quote
I always thought one of the BGM pieces in the Android saga sounded a lot like the Terminator Salvation opening.
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:10 am Reply with quote
Oh good grief.

Such stupidity over a song sounding similar.

Then again, there are people who'll outright call this plagiarism.
Rolling Eyes
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VegettoEX



Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Posts: 96
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:32 am Reply with quote
Hurray, something I can speak with authority on!

PetrifiedJello wrote:
Then again, there are people who'll outright call this plagiarism.

Well...

As a bit of background, Kenji Yamamoto has been with the franchise for years upon years upon years. Go back to the Super Famicom days, and he was scoring the video games back then. Take a look at credits for the TV series and movies, and he was arranging theme songs. Ignoring Kai, he's still been plugging along with games up through the most recent ones, though his involvement has been limited to the vocal theme songs (usually performed by Hironobu Kageyama) since the jump to the current consoles... likely because he's been so busy with Kai.

(It's important to note that while Yamamoto was clearly involved quite heavily, the actual scoring of the DB & DBZ TV series was done by Shunsuke Kikuchi.)

We have been pointing out Yamamoto's influences and plagiarism for years. A couple of the biggest examples are (and moderators, please feel free to remove links if you feel the infringement is too much, but since it's heavily relevant, I'll include a few):

GIRIGIRI –Sekai Kyokugen– (closing theme to DBZ Movie 7; song arrangement by Kenji Yamamoto) / YouTube Link
Led Zeppelin - "Immigrant Song" / YouTube Link

A bit more on the "influence" side rather than the "plagiarism" side

Cell's Theme (from "Super Butoden 2" on the Super Famicom; arranged soundtrack version) / YouTube Link
Pink Floyd - "One of These Days" / YouTube Link

Basically just the same song. A bit of change-ups here and there, but the similarity should be clear.

"Battle Point Unlimited" (DBZ TV Episode 120 insert song; composed by "MONOLITH" [Kenji Yamamoto]) / YouTube Link
Propaganda - "The Murder of Love" / YouTube Link

Again, basically the same song. The (slap?) bass has no differences whatsoever. Incidentally, this one particular song was never re-released on any compilations after its original inclusion on DBZ Hit Song Collection 6 in 1991, not even on the giant 13-disc collection in 2008.

In terms of DragonBall Kai, the allegations have been there since its start back in April 2009. I'd have to go and dig up the links again (I think this is the one in question), but there was a pretty significant one where a song from the Avatar (Cameron, not Nickelodeon) soundtrack was basically pulled as-is. And yeah, the Terminator rip-offs have been mentioned time and time again, too.

Anyway, here's a translation of Toei's posted note that we just put up, as well:

Toei Animation wrote:
The existence of multiple suspicious musical pieces which may infringe on the rights of third parties has been confirmed within the musical compositions recorded for "Dragon Ball Kai", an animated television work produced by this firm. The relevant musical pieces are used as background music in "Dragon Ball Kai", and measures are promptly being taken to replace the relevant musical pieces from the background music of "Dragon Ball Kai".

Also, we are proceeding with a swift investigation of the facts, and discussion of countermeasures with concerned parties in the near future.

This is all likely why the fourth soundtrack for the series (originally announced as "DragonBall Kai Original Soundtrack IV", canceled and re-announced as a two-disc set titled "DragonBall Kai Original Soundtrack Collection") was canceled for a second time just this month after having been pushed from February 23rd to March 23rd.

I haven't been able to independently confirm it myself, but Japanese fans are already reporting that subsequent broadcasts of the show have some replaced music (possibly even from the original Kikuchi score!).

(I've seen it popping up a bit again, but just to clarify -- this Kenji Yamamoto is different from the Kenji Yamamoto that scores the Metroid video games.)


Last edited by VegettoEX on Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3024

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:37 am Reply with quote
Usually you really don't see this unless the music ripped off was Japanese. Full Metal Panic famously used the A-Team's theme and no one seemed to care. Maybe that just shows how successful DBZ is in America, where people do notice it.
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Kit-Tsukasa



Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 928

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:11 am Reply with quote
Pretty much as expected in the sense that Dragon Ball Kai would end around 100 episodes. No surprises here.
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bayoab



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 830

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:20 am Reply with quote
VegettoEX wrote:
I'd have to go and dig up the links again (I think this is the one in question), but there was a pretty significant one where a song from the Avatar (Cameron, not Nickelodeon) soundtrack was basically pulled as-is. And yeah, the Terminator rip-offs have been mentioned time and time again, too.

The DBKai stuff (Terminator 4, Avatar) is at 8:45+ of this nico link:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/​watch/​sm12546557
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tenton



Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:46 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
Usually you really don't see this unless the music ripped off was Japanese. Full Metal Panic famously used the A-Team's theme and no one seemed to care. Maybe that just shows how successful DBZ is in America, where people do notice it.


How do classify homage/parody vs. plagarism? Because it's clear the FMP piece you're talking about is lifted from the A-Team; the name of the track is "特攻野郎?" which is the first part of what they called the A-Team in Japan (特攻野郎Aチーム), so it's not like they were hiding it; the "?" indicates to me that they were being playful with it.
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Metanomaly



Joined: 23 Jul 2010
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:54 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
Usually you really don't see this unless the music ripped off was Japanese. Full Metal Panic famously used the A-Team's theme and no one seemed to care. Maybe that just shows how successful DBZ is in America, where people do notice it.


Most of the (at least the original seires) FMP soundtrack is tributes/take offs of 80s American TV themes (some themes being more obscure than others). As tenton says, they're pretty up front about it, not trying to sneak it by people, and it seems to all be done tongue-in-cheek, as it were.
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VegettoEX



Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Posts: 96
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:16 pm Reply with quote
The official "Kai" website's "Staff" section now lists Shunsuke Kikuchi for "Music".
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DTJB



Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Posts: 584
Location: Dubuque, IA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:24 pm Reply with quote
Wow, pretty crazy if you ask me. Was there any similar backlash when this was happening in the OG DBZ as VegettoEX points out?
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Daimao Raki



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
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Location: Dark Side of the Moon

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:37 pm Reply with quote
So that means some of these Kai DVDs are now valuable.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 12725

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:20 pm Reply with quote
Wow, Toupee's not having a good week when it comes to copyright issues. Maybe they should hire better lawyers. Pretty ironic, given how they like to shut down fan-dubs and the "Over 9,000" meme over their perceived argument of violations. Rolling Eyes

tenton: I'm guessing music spoofs are usually used in the context of comedic situation?
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SaiyanHero16



Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Posts: 265
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:10 pm Reply with quote
VegettoEX wrote:
The official "Kai" website's "Staff" section now lists Shunsuke Kikuchi for "Music".


I wonder if FUNi will use Shunsuke Kikuchi under music in the opening credits of their next release
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DrizzlingEnthalpy



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 252

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:32 pm Reply with quote
I've only seen a few bits of Dragon Ball anything ever, but I remember watching some of Toonzai over the summer out of curiosity as to what Kids' WB! had become, and I watched an episode of Kai. One track was an obvious ripoff of a Joseph-Maurice Ravel piece, and I remember thinking how odd it was that they hired a guy to compose a Jimmy Hart version of a song that was already public domain. Now I find out why: apparently Toei didn't realize that's what the composer was doing.
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