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YuriGirl



Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:08 am Reply with quote
Thank you Answerman for taking the time to answer my yuri question. Very Happy
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4217

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:50 am Reply with quote
Yaoi is disadvantaged in my opinion, at least fandom-wise.

Given the immense patriarchy anime fandom is steeped, yaoi is FAR more stigmatized. Should a show have yuri subtext, no one cares, hell many male fans cheer, but a show with yaoi subtex will be savaged by these same guys for being "gay" as if yuri wasn't gay itself. Yaoi subtext also is called "unnecessary" even though yuri subtext is frequently the same.

Bottom line is, no one says, "I liked this manga/anime in spite of the yuri undertones". Yuri is blase, yaoi is a bizarre deviation that.

If you say you like yuri, then either no one really cares, even if you're a girl. But if you say you lime yaoi, girls get called "landwhale fujoshits" and guys get called "faggots" and all other sort of unpleasant terms.

Many male fans have this seething hatred of yaoi to the point of breaking out into caps-lock filled RAEG at the thought. I remember on MAL, in the Dog Days forum, someone mentioned the idea of ShinkuxGaul and another guy went [expletive] NUTS even though he was gushing over yuri undertones in the show literally the exact same page.

Finally, discussion of yaoi/BL is always ghettoed off and bringing it up usually gets a response of "keep that faggot shit off of here" but man you can discuss all the fantasies you have of Fate scissoring Nanoha and no one cares.

Actually, that brings me to how yaoi is always called pornographic. YOi is assumed to be all "guys having sex" while yuri is usually considered to be just stuff about two girls in relationship. When people think of yuri, they think of cute SFW mostly with some NSFW stuff, but when they think of yaoi they think of almost nothing but porn.

TL;DR: Yuri fans are as of now priveleged in the anime fandom. The fact that most yuri fans are male and most yaoi fans are female combined with this fact is not a coincidence.
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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 1025

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:01 pm Reply with quote
Am I missing something. Yuri and shoujo ai are over prevalent if anything in my opinion. They feel to the need to stick a pyscho lesbian or depraved bisexual even in works that are not supposed to shoujo ai /yuri. Almost every harem has a kuroko type character. Then you have stuff like maria holic, if you get to Japan only titles, you literally have shows called Yuri Yuri. And if you want literally lesbian sex, aka true yuri, go to any hentai site/store and there is more than a plethora.

I really don't get this question, if anything both yuri and yaoi are overexposed considering what a minority of the population watches them.

Even when not flat out explicit you have shows that are predominately one cast and pretty much at least hint at it, if not out right suggest it. Strike witches, PMMM, etc.

I mean I don't get what the question is asking, because both yuri as in hentai exists in ungodly amounts, and shoujo ai as in non explicit stuff exists in ungodly amounts.

Honestly if anything they need to cut it out, its gotten to the point where two women and men in a show cannot just be friends without having a message board go beserk and suggest illicit pairings. Binobougami is one that comes to mind, the author even had to state in a note that the manga is not yuri and it still does not matter.
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feuerwerke



Joined: 13 Jul 2012
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:12 pm Reply with quote
Um, no, guys. For one thing, "yaoi" and "yuri" are NOT analogous genres. "Yaoi" really does just mean male on male porn. BL is the not porn stuff. However, "yuri" is anything focusing on a female/female relationship. Terms like "GL" or "shojo-ai" were made up by the Western fanbase to try to make it comparable to yaoi-related terms. Also, throwing a random lesbian or bisexual character or putting some undertones in a show does NOT make it yuri. There really isn't much actual yuri out there re; stuff released here. We get things like Yuru Yuri, which doesn't ever even have a legit kiss or confession, or Marimite, which is even worse re; being impossibly slow and not much actually happens in terms of girls loving other girls.

Also, honestly, it's US licensed manga that shows the divide. There have been multiple lines and even entire companies dedicated to releasing BL. We don't have that for yuri. We never have. I can probably count the number of yuri manga currently available here that aren't out of print on my fingers.

That said, yes, PLEASE, yuri fans, buy what comes out here. All of it. Girlfriends got released by Seven Seas. Go buy it. Buy Strawberry Panic. Buy EVERYTHING. Yuri is a weird, underserved genre and it needs to be financially supported if we're ever going to see more.

But yeah, hell no it isn't "doing fine" or "overserved".
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poonk



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 1366
Location: Shelving with Dojo

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:29 pm Reply with quote
It's my understanding that (in Japan at least) "BL" refers to anything focusing on a male x male relationship. From the cute, tame stuff to the (much) more explicit, it's all BL. I'm also under the impression that they don't really use the term "yaoi" so much anymore either-- that seems to be a mostly Western thing.

Anyway, are BL fans overserved? I sure ain't. For years now I've bought almost every BL manga that was released here in the U.S. but lately a lot of those dedicated imprints have closed up shop or just gone dormant (even though I was under the impression that the titles generally sold rather well). I used to get a nice stack of new manga every month but lately maybe I'm lucky if I get a couple books every other month or so. It's pretty much just SuBLime titles coming out recently (I seriously don't know what the deal is with DMP's June imprint-- it's starting to worry me).
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st_owly
Get off my lawn!Get off my lawn!


Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 3418
Location: Edinburgh, UK

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:37 pm Reply with quote
DMP is "taking a break" from print releases at the moment. I believe they're resuming in July or something.
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angelmcazares



Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 1192
Location: Iscandar

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:40 pm Reply with quote
On the question of wiping your memory to relieve watching a particular anime,

If that could be done, I would like to relive the experience of watching Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood and Monster for the first time. Both anime series have compelling and intruiging characters, and the audience never quite knows where the story is going (especially in the case of Monster).
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Polycell
Thread KillerThread Killer


Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 3249

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:37 pm Reply with quote
In terms of raw numbers, BL fans have definitely been better served than yuri fans, especially in America. I really hope that Seven Seas can make it work for them; I've got a decent-sized list of series I'd love to see officially licensed, even if I know some of them aren't likely to do well(somehow, I figure that "World War 2 WITH LESBIANS" might fall under the heading of "more niche" that Adam Arnold says probably won't break even).
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Keichitsu0305



Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Posts: 929

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:35 pm Reply with quote
Selective amnesia?
Maybe Kiki's Delivery Service because that, for me, was the first time I started getting interested in animation not as a genre but, as a medium. I used to think think that all animation came from the U.S or Canada or the U.K so I never bothered wondering about other countries or how they animated their films or shows. It was around the time I saw Kiki that I also saw movies using clay animation, CGI, puppetry, combining live-action sequences, and rotoscoping that I realized there's more to cartoons than just drawings on the screen. I liked knowing there were different ways to use the medium to tell a story or to convey an emotion or message without "real" actors or "real life" settings. It was inspiring and made me appreciate the medium more than ever.

Gonna have to agree that there shouldn't be camps with the BL or GL manga/anime. They both originated by Shojo artists in the 60's and both are prevalent in terms of marketing.

Hentai anime: loads of yuri
Manga licensed in the U.S: plenty of BL
Fanservice in anime: plenty of girl on girl subtext
Shopping districts in Japan: Otome Road for the Fujoshis
Figures, body pillows, merchandise: bishoujo everywhere
Sports/action anime/manga that has lots of guys: yaoi doujins for everyone

It's divided in terms of marketing, not so much in content. It seems BL fans get more in manga while the GL fans get more in anime yet, both are buying the same thing: fantastical views of homoerotic romance. Anyone who says they read GL/BL manga for realistic depictions on LGBTQ in Japan are ignorant; its fantasy, plain and simple. Boy Love and Girl Love are the exact same thing only anatomically different. So, there never was a reason to split the two. IMO, BL fans tend to read both and hentai while the GL fans won't touch BL like it's contaminated. Other than that, they are the same thing.
And now, people are going to come on and start losing it.
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Raikuro



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 184

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:39 pm Reply with quote
Surprised there was no mention of Hunter X Hunter 1999, Nana, or even Monster in the licensing window answer... all Viz attempts at licensing shows that were several years past their air dates.
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hooliganj



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 66
Location: Longhorn Central

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:45 pm Reply with quote
Nougami Neuro might get another shot at some point in the future. The author's latest series (Assassination Classroom) is tearing up the charts in Japan, so when the inevitable anime is licensed Stateside, if it does well then Viz may dig into their back-catalog and release it as a double feature.

However, that's only if Classroom get a DVD release and does really well. Yuusei Matsui has a very twisted sense of humor, and clearly enjoys telling stories that have been warped beyond belief. I enjoy reading them, but also recognize that they aren't everyone's cup of tea.
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kotomikun



Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:46 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
If you say you like yuri, then either no one really cares, even if you're a girl. But if you say you lime yaoi, girls get called "landwhale fujoshits" and guys get called "faggots" and all other sort of unpleasant terms.

Many male fans have this seething hatred of yaoi to the point of breaking out into caps-lock filled RAEG at the thought. I remember on MAL, in the Dog Days forum, someone mentioned the idea of ShinkuxGaul and another guy went [expletive] NUTS even though he was gushing over yuri undertones in the show literally the exact same page.


It's all just a subset of the way (American?) homophobia works in general. Most of the loudest complainers are straight men or "reformed" gay men who have popularized the idea that guy-on-guy is horrible and gross. They have less interest in the female version, or they secretly like it, so they avoid talking about it.

Apparently in the anime fandom it gets even weirder; yaoi and yuri are both popular and discussed often, the latter usually in positive terms, but everyone's supposed to hate yaoi because of the larger-scale stigma against that sort of thing. Not that the Japanese fandom is much different. "Fujoshi" literally means "rotten girl." Yeah...

Seems to me the descending hierarchy of hate, for Westerners, goes: yaoi -> male fanservice -> moe (girls) -> female fanservice -> yuri -> straight romance -> Cowboy Bebop. Though this isn't exactly true so much as the impression you're likely to get from reading internet rants; yaoi is probably more popular than moe around here.
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Crispy45



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 227

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:01 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Yaoi is disadvantaged in my opinion, at least fandom-wise.




>_> There is TONS more yaoi doujins and content at conventions and on the interwebs than the opposite stuff. BL fans got it made in the shade Cool
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12532
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:09 pm Reply with quote
Brian wrote:
Just for benchmark's sake, Kids on the Slope started airing in April of last year - meanwhile, Sentai had the whole thing on DVD and Blu Ray earlier this week. Not bad, says I.


And given that they eff'ed up the Blu-Ray authoring, maybe they should have waited a bit longer and not rushed things. Don't get me wrong; with all Anime I want the home video release out as soon as possible. But not if it's going to be a shoddy product made too hastily and without proper quality control.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5085

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:25 pm Reply with quote
Keichitsu0305 wrote:

Hentai anime: loads of yuri


There are pretty much precisely three pure-yuri H anime. Period. The Sono Hanabira OVA, Shoujo Sect and Stainless Night (and you've got to do some contortions to get around the technically-futa scene in that one)

Otherwise, most "yuri" in H anime is girls who play with each other before they get a penis stuck in them. To say the least this is not particularly appreciated by yuri fans.
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