Forum - View topic
Anime Localization


Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dachande



Joined: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 89
Location: Savannah, Ga

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:13 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
And for the love of god, don't complain about a title that you weren't going to buy anyways


Hmmm anyone else have an idea about what title is being referenced here?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address My Anime My Manga
Tenchi



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 3555
Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:22 pm Reply with quote
Gakkou no Kaidan/Ghost Stories?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger My Anime My Manga
The Ramblin' Wreck



Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 924
Location: Teaching Robot Women How To Love

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:50 pm Reply with quote
Tenchi wrote:
Gakkou no Kaidan/Ghost Stories?


You got it. Honestly, who had even heard of the show before the whole ADV kerfuffle got going?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theoriginalbilis



Joined: 04 Aug 2005
Posts: 237
Location: Georgia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:46 am Reply with quote
I for one am going to buy Ghost Stories ONLY BECAUSE of the localized dub...

I understand what the editorial is talking about though. I mean, it made me think about shows like Sailor Moon and DBZ when they first came out in America.

Sure, they were altered heavily from the originals. At the time, I didn't know that. I was fine with it, as it introduced me to a whole world of anime as I grew older.

I don't exactly approve of the edits now as an adult, but I appreciate the fact that these companies helped create a huge audience and anime fandom because of them being in America.

At least someone took the steps necessary.

Nowadays it's much easier to appeal to the US anime market now, what with DVDs and the fandom explosion and all.

There are some shows I think could be localized better, but as long as the companies release the original, I'm usually pretty satisfied. (I am not including 4Kids, because they couldn't care less about the originals, they'll edit/localize the hell out of a show just to make more $$$$.)

On a related note, I must be the only person in the world who thinks Robotech was a great localization. Macross itself is a masterpiece, but the Robotech version actually improved on the other 2 series (Southern Cross and Mospeada), in my opinion.

Otherwise, those 2 titles wouldn't be NEARLY as popular as they are now.

Ok, enough of my rants.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Tomato



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:57 am Reply with quote
The Ramblin' Wreck wrote:
Tenchi wrote:
Gakkou no Kaidan/Ghost Stories?


You got it. Honestly, who had even heard of the show before the whole ADV kerfuffle got going?


Me, though I know I'm definitely in the minority Cool Been waiting for it to get licensed for a while, I'm only sad I didn't get to work on it myself.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 12727

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:21 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Tricked out titles of course include Initial D, Cardcaptors and Robotech. Many anime purists hate what Tokyopop, Nelvana and Harmony Gold did to these titles. Unfortunately most purists fail to respect the fact that these companies are in business to make money, and they came to the educated, researched conclusion that their titles would sell better in "tricked out" format.


Card Captors neither did well in the ratings, nor in sales, because it only appealed to the suits at Nelvana and not consumers. ID and the anime shows which became Robotech would've probably done well enough without having to be localized. Although at least Macek got Robotech on the air, while Tokyopop changed around the dub for nothing.

Quote:
Let's look at Initial D specifically; Tokyopop saw a growing North American drifting / import tuner market and realized that Initial D could appeal to them. A look at Initial D's sales numbers shows a certain amount of success in this market, frankly, Initial D is selling more copies than it ever would have if it were sold only to anime fans.


ID is a show which had the convenience to come out in the U.S. after The Fast and the Furious. It would've made money, even if it was only marketed to anime fans. I think a better example is Excel Saga. The Japanese track is stilted and subtle, while the dub is more explicit and loud. I definitely would not have checked out the show if I only listened to the Japanese track, but when they were screening it at AX, some hardcore fans were complaining about it being dub-only so much that the projectionist added the Japanese subs. I can except that kind of localization. OTOH, the kind of localization where you add curse words and/or slang where there wasn't any isn't my cup of tea.

Quote:
We stated for example that fans of Initial D have no reason to complain about Tokyopop's "tricked out" release, because Tokyopop also released a subtitled version of the show with a literal translation, the original music and no edits or cuts.


Actually, they dumbed down the relationships of certain characters in the subs for the Japanese version.

Quote:
And for the love of god, don't complain about a title that you weren't going to buy anyways, it's as bad as supporting the movement to get a particular title licensed and then not buying it when it is licensed. In the long run, it kills the credibility of anime fans in general, and makes companies less likely to listen to our requests.


Actually, I don't feel the concerns of those individuals should entirely be downplayed, since the quality of a release could convince them to go for it, even if they had no intention of doing so in the first place. For example, even if I didn't buy into the series, I might at least check out the first volume of Kodocha if the music hadn't been edited out. Now I have no incentive. Plus even if it's a good release, and I don't buy it, I could be good WOM for someone still on the fence. Now if you're talking about people who just bootleg the hell out of everything just for sake of bootlegging, I agree. But I'd like to believe that they're in the minority.

bilis:
Quote:
I understand what the editorial is talking about though.I mean, it made me think about shows like Sailor Moon and DBZ when they first came out in America.


Sailor Moon and DBZ were originally aired at crappy times when no one was watching them. If you're going to buy certain shows, actually promote them like 4Kids. Don't just hack them up and buy airtime in the mornings when only the unemployed and housewives would be watching.

Quote:
I don't exactly approve of the edits now as an adult, but I appreciate the fact that these companies helped create a huge audience and anime fandom because of them being in America.


Actually, I think TP helped create an audience for Sailor Moon by introducing people to the less-edited manga. As for DBZ's success, well I think it had more to do with the fact that they stopped putting action-oriented cartoons on tv in favor of anti-drug and breakfast cereal infomercials, and it filled a void.

Anyway, the only localization I hate is when they insert curse words and slang into dialogue which never had it in the first place.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
bebop26



Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 64
Location: where ever fighting games lay

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:39 am Reply with quote
I like this editorial. It really means that someone has been paying attention to anime from when it came to the U.S.

I remember my first anime I watched and I really enjoyed: Poke'Mon. Even though I don't like the series now and could careless what 4Kids does with it, I still respect it because its what got me into anime in the first place and it set the standard for how anime should be [localized] in the States. While I've never watched Poke'Mon subbed (and I probably never will) I'll say the Dub was good, and some people praised Pokemon as one of 4Kids best (if not)the best Dub 4Kids done. The Pokemon even kept their original voices from what I heard, most of the original music was left in, and I have to admit, the opening was better than other ones back then (Rock The Dragon) and certainly gave 4Kids a name before they went haywire with their current licenses.

This was 6 years ago, and I never seen Robotech (or Macorss) since I wasn't born in that time, so I can't say anything about these series. I do, however, appreciate that Robotech started something of an anime craze in the mid 80's.

So while now, being older and knowing what anime is and how it should be treated in the States, I still have some repect for 4Kids. I did know Pokemon was from Japan, but the characters names I had no clue were altered.

And I agree that all anime fans in America want are their favorite shows with the same background animation, same music, no edits, no removing of kanji, no food changes (riceballs to cookies), just the same anime thats dear to us with American voice actors. After all, not everyone can speak Japanese, so whats the fun in watching something when you'll be lost in whats going on, all because its a langauge you don't understand.

I'm done for now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 6157
Location: Penguinopolis

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:59 am Reply with quote
I understand that anime purists need to relaize that compromises need to be made in the market in order to get more anime in. The butchered... er... "tricked out" versions of shows may catch the attention of people who will buy the product, the merchandise, and thus allow the company to keep licensing more titles. And of course, if there are versions of the show that aren't "tricked out", why should a fan complain? If there are bilingual discs, uncut versions, and such, then who is the fan to complain?

Well, here's the thing. Anime as it is portrayed in the "tricked out" versions is often ultra-kiddified, dumbed down, and so transformed from the original concept, that the heart of the product isn't what the consumers are getting. For a business, it doesn't matter as long as it makes money, and I understand that's important, but what's it saying about anime as an art form? Isn't it ripping the heart out of the product? It's true, anime studios aren't doing these things for free, but it's clear that it's a labor of love in the end, because of what the people behind the titles go through to churn it out (look at any documentaries about Studio Ghibli, and tell me that looks like easy work).

The attitude that some companies take, that they aren't in the business of providing fans with what they want, is ultimately self-destructive. Or, at least, it should be.

And say we get what we want, then should we just be happy and shut up, when they're damaging the product for the market's consumption?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address My Anime My Manga
dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9577
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:08 am Reply with quote
There's something keeps bugging me for years.

I've met many fans from PR China, Hong Kong, and, of course, Taiwan. The average Japanese language capability of those fans may be a bit better than average American fans, but not much more. Yet, while we do praise some high quality dubbing (Lupin III, Chibi Maruko-chan, Crayon Shin-chan, Azuki-chan, and recent ones such as ATASHIn'CHI and Keroro Gunso) and welcome adding the dubbing track to DVDs, I've heard no one, absolutely no one, had ever said "I only watch dub."

ABSOLUTELY NO ONE

Not here for a fight; I'm just curious what had caused such a difference.

By the way, the only animation went through "tricked out" here is South Park, causing many audiences believed that South Park was made in Taiwan. Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number My Anime My Manga
GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 12727

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:20 am Reply with quote
dormcat:
Quote:
and welcome adding the dubbing track to DVDs, I've heard no one, absolutely no one, had ever said "I only watch dub."


Perhaps, but the Chinese do dub actors in their films who can't speak Cantonese. And the Japanese do watch dubbed American tv shows and movies. (Not sure if those're the only versions they watch though.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9577
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:38 am Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
Perhaps, but the Chinese do dub actors in their films who can't speak Cantonese. And the Japanese do watch dubbed American tv shows and movies. (Not sure if those're the only versions they watch though.)

Tell me about it. Rolling Eyes That's not my point.

I just want to know why "dub only" fans consist a large proportion of US anime fandom while are almost nonexistent in East Asia anime fandom.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number My Anime My Manga
ANN_Bamboo
ANN Managing Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 3817
Location: The OC

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:21 am Reply with quote
Actually, I wouldn't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that the anime referenced in the first post is Ghost Stories. I'm pretty sure Chris meant for the comment to apply generally (especially since he started writing the article long before the GS incident).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 12727

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:10 am Reply with quote
dormcat:
Quote:
I just want to know why "dub only" fans consist a large proportion of US anime fandom while are almost nonexistent in East Asia anime fandom.


Because we don't like to learn about languages or cultures of other countries, since that would encourage us to make friends with them instead of bomb them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
ACDragonMaster



Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:30 am Reply with quote
You know, am I the only one who thinks that calling someone who insists on dubs a "purist" is a complete oxymoron?

And you know, I'm not even talking anime here. If I watch a foreign film, if I'm going to be a purist about it I'll watch it in its original language. Period. If I want a different take on it that may be worse, as good, or better, I can watch it dubbed, but that is NOT the original, "pure" version.

In other words, it's just that the fandom has been flooded with "dubbies" who've been watching Cartoon Network/Adult Swim, and who are too lazy to read subtitles.

And now before anyone jumps on my case about that statement, let me point out that almost every time I've heard the reason someone prefers watching things dubbed, it's "I don't want to have to read the subtitles". Do I respect that people have their own preference, regardless of my personal opinions on the matter? Sure, but do NOT claim that is a "purist" or anything of the sort.


Also, I would like to make it clear that I TOTALLY respect that for these companies, money is the bottom line. I've even defended *gasp* 4Kids on that count before (my problem with that company is their attitude that kids can't understand it if it's not dumbed-down, but that's another rant). I have even ranted before that y'know, if it's making the companies money, they should go for it, because it means even more anime in the future for us. There's still a large enough "purist" fandom that uncut, subtitled DVDs are worth producing for the sake of making that extra buck (again, it all boils down to money), so there's not really any fear of that being unavailable...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address My Anime My Manga
La-Le-Lu-Le-Lo



Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:51 am Reply with quote
Well, my take on the 'dub-only fanbase' in the States, is that the US, along with 'heavy dubbing' European countries like Germany, Italy and France, are use'd to having lingually homogenus media. Meaning that most shows on tv have been served to the viewers in their own language from a very early age.

In my country, Norway, only shows for children are dubbed.
All other shows that are not allready in the native tongue are subtitled. That means that Norwegians are acustomed to not only reading subtitles, but also listening to "strange" foreign languages that they don't fully understand.

Now, Americans, or maybe native english speakers in general, maybe get frustrated by having to suddenly read to get what's going on. A nice, understandable dub in ones native language is probably a welcome alternative.
If this is true, it is only natural that the 'hardcore' is in minority.

I don't have numbers to back this up, but im willing to bet that the opposite is true in Norway, and most countries where subbing is more common on TV.

The same theory mentioned above would apply to the 'heavy dubbing' countries.

Then again, i could be WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 1 of 6

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group