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Anime Localization

You're probably not the only one who believe that, but I'd have to disagree with you myself. An English dub increases the number of fans a series will have in the U.S., so wanting a dub for a series isn't an inherently bad thing; it statistically tends to increase the sales and fandom itself, both generally a good thing.

Ah, another anisnob, I see. Wink Look, I won't argue that there aren't a lot of annoying 13 year olds who write crappy fanfiction watching these shows on Adult Swim, because there are.

However, there are also a LOT of people like my friends and I, who watch Adult Swim because we get the station with our cable packages, and therefore, we're seeing a lot of new series for free, LEGALLY, without having to resort to fansubs or bootlegs. If it weren't for AS, I'd never have known the glory that is Cowboy Bebop, FLCL, FMA (well, I MAY have tried that eventually, because of the concept), Metropolis, the original Read or Die OVA, or Witch Hunter Robin. AS is a great way to check out new series without shelling 30 bucks out for the first DVD. And, in the case of WHR, I realized that there were some neat plot twists later on that made the series well worth getting into and even more worth getting the special edition with the cool artbox.

Also, I'd watch my phrasing if I were you; you mean "dubbed in English". The Japanese do most of their animation beforehand instead of the usual American practice of doing the audio first, so in fact, the VAST majority of Japanese animation is itself dubbed.

I even had this interesting idea of including an edited and uncut version on the same disc... you know how ADV has this ability to have digital overlays (they use it for the ADVidnotes and they used to have text overlays on the old Evangelion discs), and how you can program a DVD to skip over certain scenes, and how you can can program alternate music tracks?

Andromeda wrote:

You're probably not the only one who believe that, but I'd have to disagree with you myself. An English dub increases the number of fans a series will have in the U.S., so wanting a dub for a series isn't an inherently bad thing; it statistically tends to increase the sales and fandom itself, both generally a good thing.

I have absolutely nothing against dubs, and I fully realize what they do for a series. In fact, I was one of a relatively small group of people on some forums who had already seen Fullmetal Alchemist in its entirety in Japanese, but were advocating the good qualities of the dub and generally telling people to hush up and give the VAs 2-3 eps to get into their roles before passing judgement. Now most of the fandom that I've seen seems to agree that dub is good.

The whole "purist" thing is, purely, an issue of semantics for me. "Purist" implies, well, "pure". The original, not mixed with anything else at all. Therefore a true "anime purist" would be someone who advocates anime raws as being perfectly "pure" anime, though a wise one would acknowledge the use of subtitles (and dubs, for that matter). In terms of anime, a "manga purist" is someone who advocates the manga's plot above on every point the anime deviates (of course, in the context of manga, it would be different, but I'm sticking to anime for this). A dub, by it's very nature, is not "pure". It is, however, an "adaptation", and in recent years they've generally been very good ones at that. Just as anime is often an adaptation of manga, and sometimes manga is an adaptation of anime, etc. Purely semantics, but semantics is a BIG issue when you're dealing with terms like these.

Incidently, I haven't bought a translated manga for myself in oh, a couple years? Have bought some of the novels, but the manga I've actually bought for myself (as opposed to borrowing from friends or receiving as gifts) has all been imported.

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Ah, another anisnob, I see. Wink Look, I won't argue that there aren't a lot of annoying 13 year olds who write crappy fanfiction watching these shows on Adult Swim, because there are.

In my defense, I wrote that post right after dealing with rampant idiocy on the Funimation forums. That, and some personal experiences on the sub/dub issue...

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However, there are also a LOT of people like my friends and I, who watch Adult Swim because we get the station with our cable packages, and therefore, we're seeing a lot of new series for free, LEGALLY, without having to resort to fansubs or bootlegs. If it weren't for AS, I'd never have known the glory that is Cowboy Bebop, FLCL, FMA (well, I MAY have tried that eventually, because of the concept), Metropolis, the original Read or Die OVA, or Witch Hunter Robin. AS is a great way to check out new series without shelling 30 bucks out for the first DVD. And, in the case of WHR, I realized that there were some neat plot twists later on that made the series well worth getting into and even more worth getting the special edition with the cool artbox.

*points up* I totally advocate good dubs, and encourage people to watch them. There is nothing wrong with watching dubs in and of myself, I've just encountered far too many people who refuse to watch stuff subtitled, period, for reasons as weak as some dub-haters' reasons for not watching dubs. Fullmetal Alchemist, I currently have all but one of my DVDs loaned out two weeks running now to people in club, because they'd caught a few episodes but missed the beginning when it aired, or had only seen the first few, etc.

But, my personal grief with people who refuse to watch subtitles is this- I've had far, far too many people inform me that they want to watch the dub solely because they didn't feel like reading subtitles.

Now on the other hand, when people in anime club insisted on watching Shinesman dubbed, it was because the dub script and acting was genuinely hilarious and a great interpretation of the show. That kind of reasoning, I'm fine with. It's just that way too many people are insisting on dubs just out of laziness. I ended up in a very long argument with some good friends of mine once on exactly that point- they said outright they didn't want to watch it in Japanese because they didn't want to read subtitles. Absolutely no other reason. Nevermind that half the time the subtitles got turned on anyway because everyone started chatting and we couldn't hear a thing. I've run into similar things far too often in the college anime club, as well.

So forgive me if I'm a bit pessimistic about reasoning for favoring dubs over subs, but one experience after another has proved to me that the exceptions are rare. (though I'm perfectly fine with them when I do come across them, it's just far too rare, in my opinion) Though on another note, the first anime I ever saw (and knew it was anime while watching) was Pokemon. Which yes, was both dubebd and edited, and I still enjoyed it. Heck, a friend and I have rented the dubbed, edited Sailor Moon before just for kicks and because we needed to throw in another tape to get the five for a week deal. To me, entertainment is entertainment, regardless of form.

I just happen to prefer watching foreign-language films in their original language, whatever that may be.

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Also, I'd watch my phrasing if I were you; you mean "dubbed in English". The Japanese do most of their animation beforehand instead of the usual American practice of doing the audio first, so in fact, the VAST majority of Japanese animation is itself dubbed.

The funny thing is, I've heard the exact opposite claim made on many occasions, so you know, until I actually ask one of those directors or producers myself, it's all hearsay.

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I even had this interesting idea of including an edited and uncut version on the same disc... you know how ADV has this ability to have digital overlays (they use it for the ADVidnotes and they used to have text overlays on the old Evangelion discs), and how you can program a DVD to skip over certain scenes, and how you can can program alternate music tracks?

Well see, cool as that would be, there's already a lot of space taken up on those discs just having multiple audio tracks. Throw in all that extra stuff, and if the editing's especially heavy they might have to cut the number of episodes per disc. One reason those older boxsets of 26 episodes on four discs generally have little to no extras is because the double audio tracks for everything take up a lot of the space, so it was harder to cram more extras in there.

They chose to release it, even with the edits.

They're a business. They saw how successful Fruits Basket was, and they're hoping Kodocha will be equally popular. They went for the second-best offer, because they want to cash in on the market, not because they care about the fans.

No, but that doesn't mean I'm going to pay for it, either.

Because they didn't care about the whiney fanboys who are going to mope about "OMGZ NO CRAPPY J-POPZ 4 ME I HATE YOU FUNI CRAWLING IN MY SKIN", they wanted to cater to the real fans who can actually understand why they couldn't get the rights to the song.

It's either they sit on the license for the rest of eternity, whoops, no fansubs for you, no DVDs for you,

or you get a version that doesn't have one whole song. Damn them.

The only series they licensed for marketing purposes was Dragonball Z and its incarnations. Everything else they acquire based on their personal tastes - if they like a show, they get it.

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about 4Kids's bastardizations?

Blah. I really hate dub/sub debates. Why ANN chose to pick a side is beyond me. It only brought up the hated debate once again with dubbies feeling validated.

I watch subs because of my intellectual curiosity.

Over the years, I have discovered that many of the anime that I've come across have the most inane plots imaginable.

What keeps me hooked is the weird cultural stuff that lurks beneath. Alright, so dubbies want English instead of Japanese and want donuts in place of onigiri. Alright, take a dump all over those gems of Japanese culture that are so deeply ingrained in anime.

Just do it quietly so I don't have to hear about it. And don't you ever tell me that I should be grateful to American companies for bringing anime over. They are just trying to make a quick buck just like everyone else.

I am enjoying a cultural phenomenon and art form and I could care less about their business.

I will complain if the product does not meet my expectations.

And as dubbies have not been able to provide any evidence to the contrary, it seems that I represent a majority of anime consumers.

Oh, and if I may, I would like to ask the dub fans a question. What draws you to dubs in the first place? I hear alot of people saying they prefer dubs but they don't really provide a reason. Is it because you don't want to read the subtitles? Do you dislike the Japanese language?

Would you rather think of the characters as American?

Do you have trouble empathizing with Japanese speaking characters?

What is it that makes you hit the "english" option when you pop in a dvd?

I'll start, in order to prove I'm not a complete dub hater. I really enjoy certain anime dubs that I was able to watch for free on Cartoon Network. I've gotten so used to the English voices that its sometimes jarring to hear the original voices. Really, the only two dubs that I love are Cowboy Bebop and Gundam Wing. I was a fan of GW not so much for the quality of the dubbing, but because it was my first anime.

One problem I do have with those dubs is when I hear a favorite character's voice coming out of another character's mouth. There really are too few English dub actors. And I have a solution...

Oh, and if I may, I would like to ask the dub fans a question. What draws you to dubs in the first place? I hear alot of people saying they prefer dubs but they don't really provide a reason. Is it because you don't want to read the subtitles? Do you dislike the Japanese language? Would you rather think of the characters as American? Do you have trouble empathizing with Japanese speaking characters? What is it that makes you hit the "english" option when you pop in a dvd?

I'll start, in order to prove I'm not a complete dub hater. I really enjoy certain anime dubs that I was able to watch for free on Cartoon Network. I've gotten so used to the English voices that its sometimes jarring to hear the original voices. Really, the only two dubs that I love are Cowboy Bebop and Gundam Wing. I was a fan of GW not so much for the quality of the dubbing, but because it was my first anime.
One problem I do have with those dubs is when I hear a favorite character's voice coming out of another character's mouth. There really are too few English dub actors. And I have a solution...

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So getting, say, 195/200 songs is "a bad deal"?

It is when the missing songs are in the background, and they have to mute them. And that's assuming that they only cut out 5 songs.

They're a business.

Yashou:

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Because they didn't care about the whiney fanboys who are going to mope about "OMGZ NO CRAPPY J-POPZ 4 ME I HATE YOU FUNI CRAWLING IN MY SKIN", they wanted to cater to the real fans who can actually understand why they couldn't get the rights to the song.

I'm not a big j-pop fan, but I don't see how it makes you less of a fan to want to hear it, when you paid for it.

I have to say that though I always felt this was the case, this article is the first report I've ever seen to catagorise dubs as the "majority" fan preference. I perfer dubs myself but I couldn't call myself a "purist" because I have to agree that a so called "purist" would be someone who only watches the "raw" Japanese versions without subs. But I also take offence to someone who says "people who only want dubs are just too lazy to read the subs." To those I say, value your blessing of youth because it will only be when you grow older will you know just what you had then.

You know, I'd appreciate it if you'd stop using that term. Not every dub-watcher is A.) A 13 year old moron or B.) the type who ONLY watches dubs, as I've already pointed out. Dubbie sounds like groupie, and therefore, is clearly (correct me if I'm wrong here, though this is how it comes across to me) meant to be a SEVERELY derogatory and DIMINITIVE term, meant to bring to mind countless dub-watching sheep who are ALL lazy and don't care about the culture their favorite show comes from, and will watch anything dubbed even if it's crap just because they don't want to watch subs.

Look at FMA! It's not even set in Japan! Other than honorifics, which you would find in any decent grammar book on Japanese to begin with anyway, there's not much in the way of Japanese culture that you could noticeably glean from it.

*Since I'm not yet fluent in Japanese, I can't appreciate most of the most subtle nuances in the acting unless it's in my native tongue.

Oh, and if I may, I would like to ask the dub fans a question. What draws you to dubs in the first place? I hear alot of people saying they prefer dubs but they don't really provide a reason. Is it because you don't want to read the subtitles? Do you dislike the Japanese language? Would you rather think of the characters as American? Do you have trouble empathizing with Japanese speaking characters? What is it that makes you hit the "english" option when you pop in a dvd?