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Mohawk52
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 3857
Location: Celebrating Lindsey Hawker murder suspect arrest, in Basingstoke, UK.
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 Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:05 am |
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| VML wrote: | You people might wanna see this picture. Yuki also copied from a photo of Kate Moss! 
 [/url] |
She even got her cocane eye's.  So does this mean Yuki has to commit sobuku with her pen then? |
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apple pro
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 190
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:31 am |
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I ADMIT it was plageurism...
However, it's not that bad. american comics "swipe" every so often. covers start looking similar every once in awhile.
in this case, the poses were similar... but if i compared "slamdunk" with "rebound" or "girl got game"... i'm sure some shots would be similar too.
i think way too much attention was given to a moderate level infraction. i don't think a recall is necessary, geez!
____________
the story is still original and the art is as well despite being "inspired/plageurized"... i don't think it was too bad |
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darkhunter
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2982
Location: Los Angelas
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:49 pm |
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| Izlude wrote: | All that over a basketball scene? Yeah, they looked copied and all, but they are just poses... so if someone "copies" a pose they can get in trouble for it?
If thats the case, I'm shocked then the manga-ka of Ikkitousen (Which Tokyopop also has) hasn't gotten in trouble for "copying" Tenjou Tenge.
I could maybe expect this sort of thing all the time in Shonen, but Shoujo? O_o |
One pose from time to time, I say is okay, it can even be played off as a coincidence or inspiration (that's how I see the TenTen/Ikkitousen) but how about a panel after panel of basketball scene with exactly the same post and layout?
Is it possible that Suetsugu doesn't know anything about basketball, so had to plagerize?
| jennwenn wrote: | The fact that the manga artist "admitted" that she plagirized means nothing. She was most likely forced to "write" an apology by her editor or publisher and then forcefully resign. In fact, I wouldn't even be surprised if she didn't even write that note herself.
Not that she doesn't feel remorseful, I'm sure she does. Just don't take whatever her company forces her to write for PR junk at face value. Honestly, this is what happens when mangaka are under intense pressure to meet weekly deadlines. And sadly, it looks like a lot of people do this all the time.
I think the company over-reacted to this "plagirism" as well.
Sad, Eden no Hana was fairly popular. I thought it was mediocre shoujo manga myself, but it had a following even among the fanscan scene... |
And had she known what she was doing was wrong, than she wouldn't have done it in the first place and get caught for it. It's kind of like cheating on the test and then having your professor make you confessed. |
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VespaChick
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:23 pm |
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| Haru to Ashura wrote: | | VML wrote: | You people might wanna see this picture. Yuki also copied from a photo of Kate Moss!
[/url] |
God, how could someone not have noticed that? Kodansha needs to hire some better editors, sheesh. |
Drawing from a photo is not plagerism.
The other works are copying an image in the same medium, that's complete plagerism. However working from photos is hardly illegal and is what she should have done if she needed references for her other panels she copied. |
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Izlude
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 323
Location: Wherever The Wind Takes Me
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:27 pm |
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I'll bet anything the manga will get re-published, and in that particular scene in said volume/whatever, will list some additional credits or something, just to make it look good so it can continue publication. Pulling the plug on a title that has been running for several or so years over something like this just sounds absurd to me. The two other instances on the other hand, are two very common poses you see all the time...c'mon...body on the ground (how many different viewpoints can you show a body laying comatose on the ground?) and an angelic gal in an embrace (How many times have we seen something like that?) ...all too common.
Its silly to even suggest those instances as plagiarism, especially when you look at many other manga out there where you see all the same poses, concepts, ideas, etc. But, oh well, it's done and over with, chances are that manga-ka screwed up her whole career and will never get published again. Meanwhile, thousands of manga are published in Japan every year, and continue to use the same poses, concepts, ideas and cliche' we already seen enough times already, but we never get tired of it.
Just wait, next thing ya know we'll see lawsuits over the use of Shinigami in anime/manga and every bishounen hero that carries a giant sword.
Last edited by Izlude on Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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blossom
Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:41 pm |
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| I feel terrible for Suetsugu-sensei. What a thing to have to go through! She writes really wonderful stories too. Though "Flower of Eden" (which is not a basketball manga) never interested me I absolutely adore her current series "Silver." I think it's horrible that we won't be able to see the rest of the story play out. Given the pressure Japanese Manga-ka are under to produce I am not the least bit surprised that they occasionally copy things. In fact I know they copy things all the time! But I can't believe such a big deal is being made over this. I think she is being made a scape-goat. It's clear that some of the poses are obviously copied but not copied frame for frame and the placement is different. And the stories have no similarity what so ever! I wish I could do something to help her. Does anyone know if there is an address where we can send letters of support? |
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 8416
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:36 pm |
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| Izlude: It's one thing if you incorporate a style, and another if you just insert someone else's vision into your own work. |
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Izlude
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 323
Location: Wherever The Wind Takes Me
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:46 pm |
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| GATSU wrote: | | Izlude: It's one thing if you incorporate a style, and another if you just insert someone else's vision into your own work. |
Well, what is the "vision" here exactly? Even if something like a basketball scene, or a dead body, or a warm embrace with a girl with angel wings is someone elses "vision", people will and can use these "visions" as their own vision.
Maybe their will be a new law now where manga-ka have to list all of their "influences".
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Izlude
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 323
Location: Wherever The Wind Takes Me
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:48 pm |
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| GATSU wrote: | | Izlude: It's one thing if you incorporate a style, and another if you just insert someone else's vision into your own work. |
Well, what is the "vision" here exactly? Even if something like a basketball scene, or a dead body, or a warm embrace with a girl with angel wings is someone elses "vision", people will and can use these "visions" as their own vision.
Maybe their will be a new law now where manga-ka have to list all of their "influences".
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 8416
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:54 pm |
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| Well if you're copying something scene-for-scene, it's generally plagiarism. If you're giving people a general idea of where you're coming from, then it's just citing an influence. |
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Haru to Ashura
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 617
Location: Termina
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:54 pm |
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| VespaChick wrote: | | Haru to Ashura wrote: | | VML wrote: | You people might wanna see this picture. Yuki also copied from a photo of Kate Moss! 8O
[/url] |
God, how could someone not have noticed that? Kodansha needs to hire some better editors, sheesh. |
Drawing from a photo is not plagerism.
The other works are copying an image in the same medium, that's complete plagerism. However working from photos is hardly illegal and is what she should have done if she needed references for her other panels she copied. |
Wrong, it depends on the nature of the photo. Drawing off of random stock-photos, self-taken photos, and unprofessional photography is fine. But coping off of this sort of photo is illegal (unless in the nature of parody) because this photo is professional and artistic - it's considered commercial art, as are manga/comics. Basically, even though it's not the same medium, it's an artist coping a different artist - they just used different mediums. If someone copied a Van Gogh painting, but used watercolors or pencil instead of oil, it would still be copying - same concept. Well-composed photography is accepted as a form of fine art and commerical art. |
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v1cious
Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 3870
Location: Fresno, TX
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:41 pm |
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| neat. now it's official that Ikki Tousen is a generic version of Tenjou Tenge. |
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 8416
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:32 pm |
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| TP hasn't taken down its Eden site, yet... |
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SharinganEye
Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 402
Location: Les Etats-Unis d'Amérique
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:14 pm |
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This might be kinda irrevalent, but, what did the article mean when it said, "Volume 1 or 13...?"
"Tokyopop has issued a statement today saying, "We are honoring the request of our partner Kodansha and will not be releasing Flower of Eden." Volume 1 or 13 was to be released on January 10th. The creator of Flower of Eden has admitted to allegations that she copied art from other manga."
Isn't Flower of Eden 12 volumes long...? |
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 8416
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| Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:28 pm |
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| Probably a typo. 1 of 13. |
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