Forum - View topicSteins;Gate (TV).
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momthemeatloaf
 Posts: 47 |
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Someone's looking to start a fight.
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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Am I really? Maybe I'm just showing how easy it is to dismiss a show with an unhelpful bit of truth.
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momthemeatloaf
Posts: 47 |
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Except you're not doing that. You're stating your opinion as fact on a show you know is popular and held up by its fans as some kind of transcendental masterpiece (regardless of whether or not it really is). I don't know your intentions, but surely you see how this could easily degenerate into flaming over PMMM in a thread about Steins;Gate.
If you really want illustrate that MadShadow42 is trying to equate his own opinion with an objective description of Steins;Gate, there are far less confrontational (and thus more productive) ways to do it 
My own two cents: I haven't seen Steins;Gate in well over a year, so while I would casually say it was a show with depth and substance" I really can't back that up with anything more than my memories of how I enjoyed the show as I watched it (meaning I can't quote any lines or scenes in support of it). I feel like any argument to the contrary is pretty silly, however, given the vague nature of the inquiry. |
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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If you don't know my intentions, then why are you accusing me of being confrontational and looking for a fight instead of asking what they are or ignoring me?
I think it's completely uncontroversial that there's more to Madoka than "little girls suffering", but that applies to pretty much any show including Steins;Gate. So dismissive phrases are not good enough to show that it hasn't enough depth or substance or negatively compare it with other anime. I like people to look for the underlying point even in seemingly trollish comments like the one I made. |
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MadShadow42
 Posts: 56 |
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I never really made any arguments for my case on why I find Steins;Gate shallow and PMMM less so. This isn't a PMMM thread, so let's not go down that road.
The morality of time travel was terribly underexplored. The only threat the time machine bore was that it would fall into the wrong hands, and that's true of any technology. So basically, it changed a lot of people's lives for the better and if SERN didn't exist then everything would be fine and dandy, but because SERN is around they have to undo all of that. Nothing is said about what the technology can do in the hands of good people, which completely undermines the theme they could have gone for of "accepting the hand that life has dealt you". |
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yoshiyukiblade
Posts: 305 |
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That theme is kind of like what happened near the end of the series when spoiler[Okarin returned to the beta world line. He mentioned something about "life isn't about doing things over," which would have wrapped things up from there.] In actuality, it was more of a satire to the theme you mentioned and I'm glad it didn't just end there. However, from what I read, many people didn't mind that kind of ending either. To be honest, I can't really think of an obvious theme for the show except for "Never give up," which I agree isn't very deep. Again, the main draw it had for me wasn't the theme, but just witnessing his journey of discovering more about the people around him and what he went through without giving up. It also makes me realize that spoiler[his future self *did* give up many times, but that in turn helped his past self succeed.] It also touched very lightly on the existential theme about how you perceive your sense of self and how it can be defined across world lines. I personally dislike themes similar to the one you mention because they're too authoritative. Like Death Note, the theme was basically, "If you use power that you shouldn't have, you'll face dire consequences," in a condescending fashion. It's as if the author is telling you that you shouldn't mess with things in the first place because it'll most definitely do more harm than good. In fact, I found that show most interesting when it seemed that spoiler[Light was going against the bad omen Ryuk gave him with his clever use of the Death Note. But it ended up going Ryuk's way in the end, which is kind of disappointing because he himself was already an overwhelmingly authoritative figure as a Shinigami. The whole gray area of Light's actions weren't nearly as interesting as watching him fight against his "fate."] |
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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All of Okarin's friends are more or less good people. They used d-mails to change their life for better and it had unintended consequences. S;G hits you in the face with it - you can't fully predict how the world will change, it's reckless no matter the wish. That would stay true even without SERN, which showed up only because they were using a time machine - also unintended consequences, but in a different way. "Don't play around with things you can't control" - that's the main moral issue with time travel. Accepting that life sucks is an afterthought and was dealt with when Okabe "unfixed" everyone's problems. |
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batou37
 Posts: 455 |
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I personally didn't really see it as anyone changing anything, whether it be Okarin's friends or himself. When a D-mail was sent and it made a difference to what happened in the world line he basically went to the reality where that change had in fact happened and the results of that difference are what he experienced. I don't remember any evidence that after a D-mail was sent the other reality somehow ended or the rest of the people changed, but simply that Okarin moved lines, similar to the late 90's series Sliders. Now what Suzuha did I looked at as a more "true" time travel (and of course I use that term loosely.) So basically I always thought of it more as a parallel worlds story (other than the Suzuha part.) The way I took it Okarin did not have the ability to actually make any changes with the D-mails (they already existed in the infinitude of the multiverse) so the morality of what he was doing didn't seem to come much into play in my mind. Just my take on it though...
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momthemeatloaf
Posts: 47 |
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As I said "surely you see how this could easily degenerate into flaming over PMMM in a thread about Steins;Gate." I merely wanted to remind you that it looked like you were trolling, and I felt that people would react accordingly (by raging and derailing the thread). I apologize if I offended you. |
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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Hmm, I don't remember if the show makes it clear. Personally I didn't see the world lines as parallel worlds, only parallel possibilities. Okarin didn't start jumping around himself before spoiler[Mayuri's death]. What you say would mean that Reading Steiner is the ability to not just perceive differences, but shift to parallel universes without any technological assistance. I think by shifting world lines the universe just enters into a slightly different configuration. In any way now that the dub is out I need to rewatch it. @momthemeatloaf No worries. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4082 |
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There is no morality to this type of time travel, if it remains constant. I admit I've only seen the first quarter of the series so far, it's not as if I've never conceptualized multiversal time travel before. If you go and kill {or create} Hitler, you simply make a world without {or with, go figure} Hitler. Good for you but that original world still exists, only now it excludes you. There are no heroes or villains, just inacters. Creators, Gods if you get right down to it. Messing around with this sort of time travel simply makes a mess. Until you find the world you're looking for, I suppose. Still, it's a very egocentric experience, not a moralistic one. The funniest way of looking at this view is that the new world you created always potentially existed in the first place and it just needed an observer to fall into place. Infinity is pretty roomy after all. And two reasons why I'm watching Steins;gate slowly: 1 The thrill of discovery, whether it's overing the truth or the new. It's very well captured. Savoring it, oh yes... 2 The dub's really good but I'm still waiting for the second half to get streamed. Tatum's amazingly unhinged and I want to follow that to its own conclusion. |
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Exaar
 Posts: 279 Location: Delaware |
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I think the show did a fairly good job of representing the dangers of time travel, even if the characters never specifically come out and give a speech about it.
In fact, now that I think about it, there's a scene somewhere towards the end of the first half that I recall where Okabe basically starts freaking out about how they could never predict how their little attempts at change would alter the world and how dangerous it was turning out to be. But that aside, the message is conveyed simply by the fact that they SHOW you that - each character attempts what seems to be a relatively small change which ends up causing major problems that Okabe then has to undo. The lesson that 'the best intentions can have unintended results' seems pretty built-in. Personally, I'm glad the show didn't get particularly moralistic or preachy. It's more about the characters and their personal story than it is about teaching us the dangers of time-travel, and I'm glad for that, I find it much more interesting. Edit: On a side note, I want to agree with the dude above me. I watched the show in Japanese originally, but I absolutely love Tatum's performance as Okabe, it's brilliant. |
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yoshiyukiblade
Posts: 305 |
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If you watched in on Funi's YouTube channel, I don't think you'll be seeing a full dub any time soon (most of their dubs on there only go 4 episodes long). However, you can probably access it with a free trial of their premium service. I forgot how long it lasts, but it might be long enough to fit a marathon in lol. |
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batou37
Posts: 455 |
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@jl07045
The way I thought they explained it was that Okarin's first jump was spoiler[when he was deathly ill as a child, giving rise to the idea that it was a separate thing from the technology.] At least I think I remember something about that. So I guess from the combination of that with the D-mail I took it that spoiler[sending a D-mail would create a new branch along the timeline, and his Reading Steiner would allow him to follow the new branch with his original memories intact] Again, just my take on it. |
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v1cious
 Posts: 6202 Location: Houston, TX |
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Found this interesting: Steins;Gate is currently the highest rated game on Metacritic: http://www.metacritic.com/. I Wonder if this will lead to more Visual Novels being brought over.
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