| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
|
|
darkchibi07
Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 5469
|
 Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:08 pm
|
 |
|
| Surrender Artist wrote: | | Free! is a relatively rare bird, especially given its prominence. That distinctiveness works to its advantage. Perhaps what fanservice for males should learn is to be scarcer. |
Funny you mentioned that because one could use Free as a microcosm in the case of having a season where there's a bunch of bishie shows plus 2 or 3 girl-heavy shows guys would flock towards to since there's not much choice. For instance, there's Gou and every guys' hope she'll be shown in a swimsuit for a plausible reason. The same goes for the teacher as well especially since they insinuated she used to be a swimsuit model. And considering how well designed both, it'll a huge treat! Of course that's only if KyoAni and writers actually go through that; I have a feeling they're going to troll that. 
A better example would be Karneval which was a bishie fest, but they had Tsukumo wear this in one episode, and she looks sexy gorgeous than most girls in male-aimed fanservice shows.
Geez, this is coming down towards gender quotas, isn't it?
| Surrender Artist wrote: | | Perhaps what’s true of comedy should be true of fanservice. Free!’s fanservice also feels somehow more joyful. Gou seems admiringly gleeful to be able to witness those fine specimens in their vigor and splendor as well as be a little self-aware about her actions. Even though there are plenty of male characters who follow the same crude template, their behavior doesn’t feel the same for some reason that I can’t quite put my finger on. |
Is this the unfortunate double standard effect I know a few posters here have mentioned?
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
musouka
Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 707
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:31 pm
|
|
|
| darkchibi07 wrote: | | Is this the unfortunate double standard effect I know a few posters here have mentioned? |
No, it's because they're careful with how they present Kou.
Genderflip Free!'s cast for a moment, and then think about how a male Kou would actually react to all the girls around him. You don't think it would be unique and oddly charming to have a guy get excited over seeing a girl's biceps or trapezius muscles? It's not like Kou is oggling nipples and asses.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Chiibi
Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 4829
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:42 pm
|
|
|
| Mesonoxian Eve wrote: | | I enjoy reading Chiibi's posts. Passionate and to the point. Gotta love that for what they deliver. |
Oh? :'D
Thank you for the compliment. I've been told by others they like my passion...but sometimes I go overboard into being too aggressive...>_>
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Chagen46
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:56 pm
|
|
|
|
You're not really that aggressive, Chiibi. You just...have passion. Lots of it. It's cute, I think.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Vaisaga
Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13227
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:28 pm
|
|
|
| musouka wrote: | | It's not like Kou is oggling nipples and asses. |
What's the difference? A body part is a body part. The "focusing only on the physical" thing is a part of objectification. Sato-sensei drools over Run's forehead, but that doesn't stop anyone from finding him creepy.
If things were gender flipped, you can bet your ass that Gou-kun would be branded as a sick pervert, both in universe and out.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
musouka
Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 707
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:52 pm
|
|
|
| Vaisaga wrote: | | If things were gender flipped, you can bet your ass that Gou-kun would be branded as a sick pervert, both in universe and out. |
Nope, I really doubt it. Again, it's all about how something is done. KyoAni has divorced Kou's love of muscles from being overtly sexual in tone, mainly because it's partially tied to their prowess as swimmers. A guy fixating on the exact same things for the exact same reasons would be just as accepted as Kou.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Chagen46
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:58 pm
|
|
|
|
A male character similar to Kou would not focus on the muscles of female swimmers, though (musclegirls are not exactly a mainstream fetish for most, though they can be hot to me sometimes), he would inevitably be focusing on their tits and asses because anime males always either chaste doofuses or hypersexual perverts.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
musouka
Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 707
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:08 pm
|
|
|
|
That's exactly my point.
Female perverts can be just as obnoxious as male ones when portrayed a certain way.
For example, I'm not a huge fan of the stereotypical "fujoshi fantasy" where a girl starts imagining the guys around her in sexual situations together based on (not even) suggestive dialogue. And that's not because I hate fujoshi or hate m/m stuff, it's because the way it's done is almost always crass and reaching for the lowest hanging fruit for the sake of "humor". (It also doesn't reflect the funniest parts of the fujoshi fandom, instead relying on "lol they like m/m stuff which is funny because DAS GAY and they are CRAZY")
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Chagen46
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:11 pm
|
|
|
|
I...think you're interpreting those scenes a little too negatively, personally.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
darkchibi07
Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 5469
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:39 pm
|
|
|
| musouka wrote: |
| Vaisaga wrote: | | If things were gender flipped, you can bet your ass that Gou-kun would be branded as a sick pervert, both in universe and out. |
Nope, I really doubt it. Again, it's all about how something is done. KyoAni has divorced Kou's love of muscles from being overtly sexual in tone, mainly because it's partially tied to their prowess as swimmers. A guy fixating on the exact same things for the exact same reasons would be just as accepted as Kou. |
Man, it'll be great if more of the latter happened a bit more frequently in anime, and then that type of series will end up being a trend setter for all the other series to follow.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Vaisaga
Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13227
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:14 pm
|
|
|
| musouka wrote: | | KyoAni has divorced Kou's love of muscles from being overtly sexual in tone, mainly because it's partially tied to their prowess as swimmers. |
I don't quite understand how that works. I mean, she's still oggling their bodies, and I can't imagine she's thinking of anything other than what she can do to those muscles or what those muscles can do to her.
Does a guy admiring chicks at the beach get divorced like that because it's tied to the fact that they're at the beach?
| musouka wrote: | | A guy fixating on the exact same things for the exact same reasons would be just as accepted as Kou. |
I seriously doubt this because it's a pretty common perspective that guys only think their their lower head and pretty much everything they do is related to sex in some way. Even the most innocent of actions are interpreted as sexual if a guy is doing it. This is why male teachers are becoming less common. If they so much as put a reassuring hand on a student's shoulder they'll get accused of trying to molest them. I've seen plenty of stories come out of Japan where the cops go on manhunts for suspicious males who had to audacity to make eye contact with a girl in the streets.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
walw6pK4Alo
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:53 pm
|
|
|
| Chagen46 wrote: | | A male character similar to Kou would not focus on the muscles of female swimmers, though (musclegirls are not exactly a mainstream fetish for most, though they can be hot to me sometimes), he would inevitably be focusing on their tits and asses because anime males always either chaste doofuses or hypersexual perverts. |
Change it a female weightlifting team and the guy being a muscle fetishist.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Chiibi
Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 4829
|
|
Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:19 pm
|
|
|
| Chagen46 wrote: | | You're not really that aggressive, Chiibi. You just...have passion. Lots of it. It's cute, I think. |
Oh my....now you guys are just making me blush....>///<
| Quote: | | For example, I'm not a huge fan of the stereotypical "fujoshi fantasy" where a girl starts imagining the guys around her in sexual situations together based on (not even) suggestive dialogue. And that's not because I hate fujoshi or hate m/m stuff, it's because the way it's done is almost always crass and reaching for the lowest hanging fruit for the sake of "humor". |
I find this normally very funny in anime ...but it's a matter of taste. It just reminds me how my fangirl friends and I acted in college towards yaoi and those were fun times...so it brings a smile to my face when anime fujoshi squeal.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
icetea00
Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 50
|
|
Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:52 pm
|
|
|
| TitanXL wrote: | | Not to mention all the otome games that exist there but go unheard of in the west. |
I am quite familiar with the otome game scene and have to point out that the number of otome games out there is no where near the millions of H games/visual novels for male otaku. This market is actually not very developed yet. Most otome games are on PSP/other portable platforms and not R18 rated (there are R18 otome game but you can count their number with your fingers). I find that R18 otome games are pretty similar to smut shoujo manga (expect the main girl being raped and stuff lol but perhaps not as graphic as H games for males). Most otome games are, as you have seen from their anime adaptations, having different male character types and their routes for the player to choose.
Even if their number is that much larger, I guess the majority of the male-oriented H games/visual novels are unheard of in the west too unless you are a very hardcore otaku. And no, Key stuff and fate/stay night, etc. cannot represent most of them.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
Gina Szanboti
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11354
|
|
Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:46 pm
|
|
|
| Vaisaga wrote: |
| musouka wrote: | | KyoAni has divorced Kou's love of muscles from being overtly sexual in tone, mainly because it's partially tied to their prowess as swimmers. |
I don't quite understand how that works. I mean, she's still oggling their bodies, and I can't imagine she's thinking of anything other than what she can do to those muscles or what those muscles can do to her.
Does a guy admiring chicks at the beach get divorced like that because it's tied to the fact that they're at the beach? |
You don't need huge boobs spilling out of a bikini top or camel toe on display to go swimming at the beach. You do need to have a lean body and muscle to be a competitive swimmer. But it's normal to ogle huge boobs spilling out of a bikini at the beach. The fan service isn't in the character's response to it, it's with the creators. Jessica Rabbit isn't bad, she's just drawn that way.
There's also a difference in what she can do to muscles. She can touch them or squeeze them, but the muscles will not jiggle (flex, maybe) or show signs of sexual arousal. Boobs are different. I'll leave it at that. 
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
