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Zac's Post In The Orson Scott Card: Bebop Feedback Thread




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RoverTX



Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 424
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:29 am Reply with quote
This is in response to Zac's post in this thread:
animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=193494

First I would hope that it is ANN policy to prohibits staff from wading into political debates unrelated to anime in general or the subject of an anime being discussed. Also I would hope that it was policy to clamp down on all forms of political name calling. Third, It saddens me to see Zac and others in that thread(on both sides) feed into a worthless straw man of an debate set up by both parties to demagogue a serious issue. From my experience Americans on neither side(as a whole not as individuals I am not so foolish as to be believing there aren't bigots out there) is out to subjugate the other, and really the conflict is mostly one of semantics. Hell poll after poll there is strong support for civil unions, which would give gay couples all he rights of straight couples. Which, I believe, shows a sizable majority of Americans are ok with gays receiving the same rights.

Washington Post wrote:
Civil unions draw broader support. Two-thirds now say they favor allowing gay and lesbian couples to form civil unions that would give them many of the same legal rights as married couples. That's an increase of 12 percentage points since a December 2007 poll that asked about civil unions for "homosexual couples."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/behind-the-numbers/2010/02/post-abc_poll_views_on_gay_mar.html

The issue has been abused to all hell when it really boils down to the usage of a word, which should never have been used by the government in the first place because of its religious nature. Zac's comment, and others on both sides of the debate, in that thread are not constructive in anyway, and just pollute a site that has nothing to do with politics with name calling that does nothing to solve any disagreements but rather to deepen the current political divide.

I have said my peace, I hope this does not represent a new direction ANN is taking and that it stays as apolitical as the anime world allows it, as it has been.
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Teriyaki Terrier



Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 5689
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:41 am Reply with quote
Oh boy, here we go again...

Honestly, I read the same article, but I didn't really put too much thought into the topic. I just thought it was cool that Cowboy Bebop is still talked about these days.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:34 am Reply with quote
Wow, this is really something.

So it's very clear to me that you have a lot about the issue you'd like to say, as most of your post is directly about your personal take on the subject, offered up in an instructional way (some may interpret this as 'condescending').

You then suggest that you hope the policy around here is that the staff should be censored when issues like this come up, as though that's some bravely neutral stance where it isn't about what I said and how strongly you disagree with it, notably something that is directly disproven by your comments here.

I said what I said to offer up the counterpoint to someone else's statement - a point which had not yet been offered and I believe needed to be at least briefly mentioned - before saying that the conversation needed to be on-topic from there on out.

Notably, after I posted that, the other side of that particular debate told me they felt better, they felt at that at least they were somewhat represented. The thread went back on-topic after that and the subject never came up again.

I call that a "successful defusing with both sides of the issue briefly mentioned and then we all moved on". Which was my goal. Sorry you don't like my methods.
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RoverTX



Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 424
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:48 am Reply with quote
Sorry I did not mean to be condescending. I should have reworded it. I was trying to explain why I thought calling some one a bigot in that context was an insult and was not proper(since bigot can be a statement of fact and not an insult) because the number don't point to people being biggots. I am not trying to start a fight, though I really don't like what was posted in that thread from anyone in the sense none of it was civil. I am fine with user posting "I think scott is wrong on X issue, but I think this is cool." Thats fine, I am ok with that, but when people come in and seem start to insult one another I such remarks should be removed and a warning giving with no reference either way to the issue, with no addition wadding into the issue.

Last edited by RoverTX on Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:59 am; edited 2 times in total
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:56 am Reply with quote
RoverTX wrote:
Sorry I did not mean to be condescending. I should have reworded it. I was trying to explain why I thought calling some one a bigot in that context was an insult and was not proper(since bigot can be a statement of fact and not an insult) because the number don't point to people being biggots. I am not trying to start a fight, though I don't like what was posted in that thread from anyone in the sense none of it was civil. I am fine with user posting "I think scott is wrong on X issue, but I think this is cool." Thats fine, I am ok with that, but when people come in and seem start to insult one another I such remarks should be removed and a warning giving with no reference either way to the issue, with no addition wadding into the issue.


Hey, I agree with you. I'd like it if this stuff never, ever came up. And I understand how you'd feel uncomfortable with the statements made - I stand by what I said, but I do apologize if that particular exchange lessened your experience on these forums.

But I'm also not the sort to totally censor that kind of thing - a little bit of it can provide some context to a discussion, especially about a polarizing figure like Orson Scott Card. I'd actually point to that thread as a good example of how to control social and political disagreements and wrangle them in to a small, forgettable space rather than letting them burn out of control or be completely squashed. Oftentimes context is important, and a little goes a long way.
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RoverTX



Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 424
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:59 am Reply with quote
Cool thanks that helps, I understand your point of view, and your method behind it now, I don't like it but that's ok. Sorry for a little soap boxing and bad wording.

edit: for spelling and grammar
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