Forum - View topicAnswerman - Tech Specs
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reanimator
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Even though you talk about cost cutting, do you think fans who like hand drawn animation will accept it? Animation-making is labor intensive. Do you want to compromise quality for cheaper price. When you want niche show with quality, then you have to pay the price, right? Even if they do everything high tech, production cost will soar again because artists are never satisfied to existing visual quality. Do you even look at end credit of each episode and how many are involved in it? When I count names on end credit of hot anime titles, number of production staffers range from 100 to 200 people per episode. Or do you prefer half the staff with okay-quality animation and visuals for Anime? Many American TV animations are like that and they're not that pretty even with oversea staffs. I don't know much about European side, but it depends on how much people are involved it. How many people are involved in typical European animation production? Are European films made for niche or mainstream? Japanese fans want their animations to be niche and also high quality if possible. That's why Japanese fans pay the high price. |
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CrownKlown
Posts: 1762 |
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Outside of Disney and maybe Ghibli anime stopped being hand drawn a long time ago. Also with regards to a cheaper product, they have already skimped on that. All animation is basically outsourced to Korea and cheaper areas. Look at the credit sometime. Hell just look at some of the shows, they look awful, even things like Naruto. You act like lower costs would cheapened the product, unfortunately they have cheapened the product without lowering the price. And its not just Europe name me one place in the world where you will come anywhere close to paying 30 dollars for 30 minutes. You will not find it. Its pretty much a Japanese exclusive thing. Even areas where where luxury goods are more expensive, don't charge anywhere near the going rate that Japan does. The fact is Japan is lazy on this one. I love Japan. But they have this model, milk a few thousand otaku and move on. When they can't milk them, what do they do, change the model. No! They simply move on to another show playing a constant game Russian Roulette, and never working to address the underlying flawed system. Anime remains niche not just because of Anime, there are marketing reason, and other factor as well. Anime is a medium not a genre, yet Japan continues to treat as a genre. Its not action, horror, love, comedy, anime. Its photography, film, anime, painting etc. Look I realize somethings will never change. Companies are no different from people. Most of them are lazy and if they can get by with less effort they will. Just look at a company like Nintendo. They hit wall technologically a long time ago. But they have mario so who cares. Same thing with the anime companies, they can always find just enough otaku to bilk and so status quo is God. |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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@CrownKlown
ALL non-CG character anime is still hand drawn. Computers are used a lot in the production (special effects, some background, and objects, compositing, final outlines, painting) but that does not preclude the need for human labor in frame by frame work. Software for onion skinning and tweening does help make the process more efficient but it still requires a lot of man hours. I can assure you it's not a push-button operation. All animation is NOT being outsourced to Korea. Because as mentioned, frame-by-frame work takes a ton of man hours, a portion, sometimes most, of the in-betweens is outsourced to Korea AND many other Japanese studios. I've read that they've had problems with coordination outsourcing to other countries where it actually results in more expense, especially when they have to perform many corrections, so some studios that don't have an established workflow with Korean studios, try to outsource to other domestic JP studios instead where an ad-hoc production workflow is more viable. You bring up Naruto. That's actually a good example. The animation for regular, mundane scenes and for filler fights do range from utter crap to mediocre. However, the big, canonical battle scenes are superb. The kind of quality used for their movies used sparingly for TV. Why do suppose there is such a constant, wide variation within the same show? You can see here the effects of money and budgeting. In contrast other shows do have more consistently better quality. Shows like Guilty Crown or SHAFT titles after some corrections for home video. That said, there are ways of improving animation and production efficiency and we already see its effects. If you actually looked at old shows, current shows are much better visually because of the enhanced tech. It would take too long to get into it here, but the animation efficiency could still be improved and it is improving, albeit at a slow rate. I also think CG can be viable replacement in the future, and can prove to be more economical There is also the business side where one can rely on enough volume, which works better for some shows than others. I think this can still be improved for most however. Part of this is also due to cultural or perceived cultural barriers and being willing to take risks to improve volume (think Dragons Crown or Senran Kagura in games) |
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DmonHiro
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Why would they, when the Japanese are willing to pay that much? |
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ElectricDork
Posts: 73 |
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A very interesting insight into the subtitling process. I've noticed the issue where Blu-ray subtitles blink when they refresh (most notably and disappointingly on Bakemonogatari) which Justin briefly mentioned, but it's such a relatively rare occurrence that I'd been left miffed as to why it's happening. It's present on Kaze's European release of Samurai Girls but not Sentai's, despite Kaze using Sentai's subtitle track!
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fuuma_monou
Posts: 1817 Location: Quezon City, Philippines |
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What's the frame rate on the discs' encoding? I've mostly been watching anime Blu-rays dubbed, so I haven't noticed any subtitle problems yet. |
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Sparvid
Posts: 240 |
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Maybe I'm missing something, but why not? I'm guessing that a large majority of the viewers want to watch either subbed or dubbed, and not both versions of every episode, so having two videos wouldn't automatically double the bandwidth. |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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You would be doubling the storage costs for your primary servers and CDN, plus it would consume twice the bandwidth syncing to those other servers |
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Juno016
Posts: 2386 |
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Two issues with your analogy and conclusion: 1) Unlike your sports analogy, where both experiences are completely different, the anime BD in America typically has the same stuff as the Japanese BD has, only with an extra dub and optional subtitles. Maybe even some other extras, or maybe those extras were taken out. Either way, it's generally the same product, just a lot cheaper. Indeed, fans who want the product as Japanese as possible, or who don't want to risk the American BD only having the Japanese dub with English subtitles (no non-subtitle option available), or who want Japan-only extras won't turn to the cheaper product, but... 2) ...that won't stop people who, regardless of whether they can or can't afford the Japanese release, will go for the cheaper alternative anyway. Those kinds of people aren't included in your analogy, but they exist and are the ones the companies are worried about. The ones who can't afford them won't buy them (probably) and the ones who want the main product anyway won't bother with the cheaper one, but those who CAN afford the main product, but choose not to buy it in favor of the cheaper alternative will be losses. Whether or not this group of fans actually exists or truly has a significant impact on sales is debatable, but the possibility that it does is high enough that most companies don't want to take their chances. Personally, I'm fine with this... as long as I can still buy Japanese BDs without worrying about this new "blocking" mechanism, that is. |
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doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 1708 |
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A couple blog posts by Jonathan Clements on reverse importation:
• "Ill Winds" (7 September 2011) • "Bait & Switch" (2 November 2012) |
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EnigmaticSky
Posts: 750 |
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I do hope that they can mess with blurays more to make the subtitles easier to encode, and simply work better overall. I had no idea how much of a pain in the ass they made it for the encoders. It is one thing for fansubs to look like they do since they play on pc's, but to try to make stuff like that show up on a bluray, and have it show up at all... Damn. How hard would it be for there to be a little bluray upgrade to help them work better? I have a PS3 to watch my anime blurays on, so I think they could make it so that it uses more processing power, but others... I'm not a professional bluray encoder, so I wouldn't know, but I hope that they can make that work better.
Also I really hope Sentai, and other companies, would stop using yellow subtitles. Every time they have two lines on at once they use white for a second, and every time it goes off my friends and I yell "NOOOO! You were doing so well for 3 seconds, Sentai..." |
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doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor
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And a new post from Mr. Clements:
"Grey Exporting" (19 August 2013) |
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