Forum - View topicThe End of Evangelion (spoilers).
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DemonDragonJ
 Posts: 116 Location: Somewhere in the United States |
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Neon Genesis Evangelion was, in my mind, one of the most bizzare anime series in existence, but had an incredibly good plot and well-developed characters.
However, I am somewhat confused about the ending of the series, and would like someone to explain it for me. From what I have observed, Shinji was transported to an alternate world where the following things were different from his original world: 1. His mother was alive. 2. His father was actually a nice man who lived with his family. 3. Misato and Ritsuko were teachers at Shinji's school. 4. Asuka and Rei were classmates of his, and there were no Evas, no Angels, and no war. Is my assumption of the ending correct? P.S. Why are the "angels" in Evangelion called by that name? They are anything but angelic in either appearance or mannerisms. |
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DKL
 Posts: 1945 Location: California, USA |
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I felt that the TV series ending was kind of lame... they went in a lot of circles only to arrive at a simple message in which:
The lives of the pilots have meaning even without the EVA *that's about the gist of it* That alternate "reality" was probably just there to convey the above messege As for the technical aspects of it... well, I dunno... it was all in Shinji's head, so I don't really have any idea what happens... outside of his head (although, there was some weird explanation at the beginning) In any case, on my second watch, I just skipped over the TV episodes and just watched the Director's Cut stuff and into the movie (End of Evangleion) But hey, maybe someone else has an answer, I'm interested to hear |
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Jgobats81886
 Posts: 113 |
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From what I got, it was a different version of what Shinji;s life could have been. Remember, when Misato said spoiler[ that each one of the angles was anothe possibilty of what mankind could have become, making humans the 18th angel.] Its kind of like that. I think it also has to deal with the choice Shinji made at the end spoiler[weather not to live in a world with pain, or to have no boundries but not exactly no where you begin and where you end.I bealive he made the choice to live in the world of pain after he had the vision of his alternet life.]
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6867 Location: Kazune City |
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"Angel" isn't exactly the right translation--I read somewhere that it was what Anno/Gainax wanted ADV to use in the dub and subtitle tracks. I noticed this since they don't use "tenshi" for the Angels, rather, they use "shito," which means something like messanger/apostle. They aren't angelic in the Hallmark way, but we must remember that anytime Japanese culture and Christianity collide, there will be strange results. (If you don't believe me, watch the movie "Night on the Galactic Railroad.") However, the Angels do have basis in the Old Testament, somewhere; each of them is named as the Hebrew word for "Angel of [something]," like the 6th Angel (Episode 8), "Gaghiel," Angel of Fish. This info is taken from the Platinum edition booklet.
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Sam-I-Am
Posts: 121 Location: Midwest US |
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Warning - entire post likely to be spoilers
The end of the series has baffled everyone since it first aired, and likely Anno intended to leave everything a bit loose, and allow the viewer to reach their own conclusion. Just to complicate/confuse things further, the end shown in episodes 25 and 26 is substantially different than the end shown in the EoE movie. Since the original post was about the series, I'll go that route... Episode 25 looks into the psyche of Shinji, Rei, Asuka, and Misato, Episode 26 concentrates on Shinji alone. By and large, the characters are made to face themselves, not just as they see themselves, but also as others see them, stripping away many of the barriers we erect to protect ourselves from our own worst fears and secrets. This is not an easy process. The Human Instrumentality Project (or Complement Project, depending on sub vs. dub) seems to be designed to cause or allow mankind to merge into a single conciousness, breaking down all ego borders. It seems to me that each individual has to be ready to join the conciousness, or remain alone, and this is the battle that Shinji fights in Episode 26. He has spent his entire life allowing himself to be judged and valued by what he can provide for others, with his own wishes and needs being denied. The avatars of his friends are trying to get him to reevaluate himself, and to see that his life does not have to be the bleak existance he's used to, but could easily have been a much more normal, happy life. The 'parents alive, school happy' sequence was explained as one possibility of many. One of the themes developed over the course of the series is the balance between trusting others, and trying not to be hurt by others. Shinji, in refusing to allow others to hurt him, has also prevented anyone from being able to breach the walls of his soul. This leaves him lonely, but to lower his defenses enough to allow someone in, is also to allow that someone to cause him pain. If I remember right, Anno wrote the series after a bout of clinical depression, as a form of therapy. Speaking as someone who has walked that road too, I can identify with Anno's thought that we need to believe that we are valuable for being ourselves, and that we don't need to perform any certain role to feel that worth. The whole 'congratulations' bit is after Shinji finally makes teh mental jump to believing that his own life is worth living, thus allowing him to break down the barrier that separates him from the souls of the rest of the world. Which is an odd sort of irony, in that by gaining a sense of self, one is able to join the group-mind of Instrumentality. If you leave the group mind out, Shinji is finally a real person, able to love without fear of being hurt. Matt Greenfield of ADV (Dub director) theorizes that the entire series is a flashback, since Shinji's walkman keeps playing tracks 25 and 26 over and over. The flash you see of Rei in the first minutes of Episode 1 somewhat supports this, since it's similar to some of her appearances late in EoE. I personally am not convinced that it's all a flashback, since it suggests that the whole thing is a figment of Shinji's imagination. As far as the word 'Angels' being used, Greenfield states that the word choice was mandated by Gainax, even when ADV tried to suggest other, less charged words, such as messenger. Apparently, they wanted to keep the religious confusion stirred up as much as possible. Again, things are purposefully left open-ended to cause us to ponder, research, and think for ourselves. The fiends. 
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CyberViper
Posts: 218 Location: Matsumoto, Nagano Japan |
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I don't think he's been transported to another world, but he is imaging another world within his mind. It is, as said before, one of just the many possibilities out there.
The last few episodes seem to be Shinji debating metaphysics with himself. Is he real? If he doesn't think he's himself is he still himself? So and so forth. I think the alternate world thing is Shinji realizing that for every single decision that isn't made, it's made somewhere else, therefore infinite worlds are created, and there are infinite possiblities. The world he is in right now is not the only world. Shinji has the internal conflict with himself of accepting reality, but knowing that there were the other possibilities out there makes it easier for him. His father isn't just a mean person, he has the potential to be a caring father...ect. As far as the "Angels" go...The best thing I got out from it was that they were a...sort of fate from the heavens. Such as...humanity is getting out of control, let's destroy it and start over, kind of thing. This is just my impression of what was happening as a result of the Angels. Also, the first Angel's name was Adam, symbolizing the beginning of humanity. So it's as if humanity can be reborn. Watch End of Evangelion movie, it is an alternate ending. Although it's also pretty wacky, it makes a lot more sense than the TV series ending. |
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Glory Questor
 Posts: 456 |
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Actually, that was an alternate reality story that was so popular, it had "dating-simulation" games made based on it (Girlfriends of Steel and Girlfriends of Steel 2). Those games' alternate future storyline could be what you've heard about. The Girlfriends of Steel 2 manga is currently being serialized in Newtype USA as Neon Genesis Evangelion: Angelic Days.
They are basically alternate beings born of Adam on the "White Moon" (in Anartica), sent to oppose Lilith (his Biblical ex-wife) and her offspring, the Lilim (humanity).
Here is the full article, with an indexed list of all of the Angels featured in Evangelion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_%28Neon_Genesis_Evangelion%29 |
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TranceLimit174
 Posts: 958 |
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In the TV ending my understanding was that Shinji could create the reality he wanted to live in. The possibility displayed to him shows an ideal scenario. I don't think anyone who watched Eva the first time ever imagined Rei running to school with toast in her mouth. Anyway if you look what's presented in that scene (Yui being alive, Gendou being a father, Rei having a personality) it's the kind of reality Shinji would like to live in. Everyone's been pointing out the "one of many possibilities" quote and I saw it as basically saying this is just one of many realities that he could create for humanity.
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DKL
Posts: 1945 Location: California, USA |
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HEY, that was really agreeable *in terms of explanation*... In any event, while I still think that the last two episodes was simply a flashback of the characterization *with the extra stuff Anno tacked on... that you expanded on* and... well, something that came about since they ran out of money *>_>* That was a really good read and sums up the whole thing nicely and in detail *better than mine, which just looks at the message... with a few sentences* and you even explain the "technical" aspect of the thing *the part where Shiniji was all alone and can't merge if he can't fix his personality... and stuff... anyway, that's what I was looking for* ... hell, your way of telling it was a lot better than how ANNO went about doing it  *which consisted of a ton of recycled footage instead of a more creative way of saying it... well, some might consider that creative I guess*
Anyway, if we discuss the movie, make sure to jump in |
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Kazuki-san
 Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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Quite correct. Also not a bad word for Gainax to specify using, given that the names of the angels (aside from a couple) are those of, you guessed it, angels. |
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Chesty La'Rou
Posts: 18 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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My take on it is this (I'm gonna shorten it up a little bit too)...
Seele and Gendo along with all the other higher ups invovled, figured out that the last stage of human evolution is to revert back to the primordial state (LCL). From there, humans again follow the evolutionary chain and once again revert back again to LCL. I think the series hints at this somewhere but I can't remeber which episode. Seele wanted to bring about this forced evolution and be the rulers among equals. Halfway through the series Gendo has other ideas and starts trying to open up "the gates to heaven" for himself (To see his wife again). He intends to use Rei as the medium for this (along with adam, which he has implanted in his hand). Somewhere along the lines Rei decides she doesn't want to do what Gendo wants. Instead she merges with adam and gives the power to decide the fate of the human race to Shinji. Shinji then creates a world of despair all for himself. I dunno I might be waaaaay off...but this is easiest way I could think of to explain it. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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I'd really like to side with one opinion over another on this thread, but that would require me having to watch Eoe again, and I don't want to be left traumatised for the next couple of days.
Wasn't a book written to at least reduce the amount of confusion over the series? More importantly, what has Anno himself divulged about sequences of events in the endings? |
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Ikari1
 Posts: 531 Location: London |
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Blashemy!  It took me a good week to get over what EoE did but its gets better with time and for me became an even better ending when i came to understand what was going on. I sat there drunk watching it, i sat there sobre watching it and i sat there whilst suffering depression and every time i watched it, i saw something new withing the ending which is why i think The Eva series is so unique as a whole.
I love EoE it stirs up the soul if you know what i mean; makes you think about things differently if just for a temorary period of time. spoiler[I understand it in that Shinji is given a choice to make and what we see during the flashback/shinji's mind scene is the souls of those who were remotely close to him in the end, testing him and showing him the pain of living in the real world and getting him to question his values. The relationship between Shinji and Asuka is a very important factor in EoE but i still cant quite pin down what they actually mean to each other right in the end, mainly due to shinji trying to strangle her. I like to think of it as shinji temporarilly going back to ''his old ways'' and trying to push away or kill in this case aything that will possibly hurt him but then he realises that he doesnt have to do that anymore; Asuka palms his face, and he stops. The art work on the front of the EoE case is quite good as it shows them both there sitting contemplating what lies ahead. It does remind me of Adam and Eve as an image. ] Dean |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3874 Location: New York state. |
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The TV show ending was a result of a tightened animation budget and rushed scheduling of the TV show which prevented Hideaki Anno from using the 'true' ending of the series he intended to use for End of Eva. And from what I understand, both halves of the movie had different animation directors: Kazuya Tsurumaki for the first half, Anno for the second half. This explained the differences in clarity for both halves of the movie as Tsurumaki made events clear and concise throughout the first half while Anno came in the second half to make things as baffling and debatable as possible. |
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Zin5ki
Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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I actually agree with you, it's just the toll it took on me is extreme- as a conclusion to what starts out as kids piloting robots to destroy big alien baddies it feels a far more ultimate and disturbing ending than I wanted to be subjected to. That's the hideous beauty of it all; I for one believe that the way the viewer is forcibly subjected to the Instrumentality Project unfolding is perhaps a subtle criticism of apocalyptic theology. spoiler[Mankind suddenly returning to it's creator] was one of the most harrowing things I've ever seen on screen, and yet in the Evangelion world it was what some were actually striving to achieve. |
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