Forum - View topicINTEREST: Star Trek Actor Petitions Against Akira 'Whitewashing'
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GATSU
Posts: 15279 |
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Overlord:
Actually, I'm aware of two anime which made fun of Koizumi so far.
I haven't seen The Wire, but the fact that you as a consumer gotta pay a company like HBO directly to produce a quality show when the ones which are raking in millions do so with utter banal crap like Jersey Shore says it all about our entertainment industry.
I haven't seen Mad Men, but if I had a dollar for the # of American shows and movies which crib off 60s pop culture...
That may be the case, but I'd rather watch Beelzebub than Cars 2. Oh, and Wall-E ripped off Freedom Project.
Yeah, but if they reference old-ass cartoon styles then people will give it a high score like Drawn Together.
Not that I really care about 'Bund, but if people are so eager to praise a movie where a little girl dresses like Britney Spears and talks like a porn star, then I don't see why 'Bund should get more scrutiny.
Um, outside of South Park and Family Guy, they're all superhero stuff. Gideon:
Well, yeah, if you compare racial compositions in Hollywood productions to those made in Sweden, we're clearly less racist in casting. But in terms of which groups actually continue to buy movies and shows versus who gets major gigs in the industry, there's a clear disparity at work.
I like how you're trying to equate a whole history of white actors intentionally playing minority characters in negative ways with one or two movies or shows which happen to cast predominantly minority talent who can't seem to get noticed anywhere else, even though they're just as capable as their Caucasian brethren. Because that's clearly the same f**king thing. And given your own background, you should recognize that distinction better than anyone.
Yes, but that's what Takei is complaining about, that these actors got a free pass because they're white.
Well, that's nice, but it's not like Daredevil where Kingpin got played by Michael Clark Duncan. In that case, he was portraying someone with the same body type, not someone based on a particular cultural background.
And why wouldn't he be? I mean, he was only sent to an internment camp for being Japanese, so he wouldn't know shit about being singled out or left out because of his ethnicity.
Well, technically, the audience will have the final word, and the producers will hopefully be fired.
If they knew how, then they wouldn't be touching Akira in the first place, because it'll just be a bomb like Watchmen all over again, even if the casting wasn't an issue.
Well, given the title, yeah.
True, but the concept of a Western is a little more "international" than Akira.
Given that the appeal of the show was its cultural elements, the fact that those were diluted for a white audience adds validity to Takei's argument.
Then why can't they find some hot young Asian/Asian-American 20-somethings for the parts? Justin Lin had no problem doing that, and Better Luck Tomorrow was well-received.
Jackie Chan, Jet Li, and Sho Kosugi aren't American, and they haven't sold a movie solely on their own names, which is the point I assume Takei's making.
Well, ok, these actors don't have quality performances, either.
The Ring was successful partly because it translated an urban legend for an American audience which, while not familiar with the source material, had experience with the concept in other forms. The H'wood Akira looks to simply be a wretched cash-in with little respect for the source material.
Well, you don't know that, because so many of them never even get their foot in the door in the first place. Last edited by GATSU on Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gideon Krieg
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Except that Morgan Freedman might also take offense to the term "whitewash" in a film he's purported to be in. Morgan may take the role of Colonel Shikishima, and that is the final nail in the coffin of Mr. Takei's racist rant. However, YOU ArsenicSteel are quite correct in your assessment of this movie now that I've taken the time to fully read what the script changes are for this project I must say that I totally agree. You put the fire under my behind to google articles on this movie and find out what Warner Bros. is doing to my beloved Akira, and for that I thank you. We disagree on the Mr. Takei's part in this debate, but I now completely agree with you that this Americanized Akira will flop (I hadn't read all the details about this until now). For those of you who would like to know what the changes are to the original story, here are the highlights from the Screenrant article on it: 1) Tetsuo's name changed to Travis. 2) It takes place in New York (Neo-Manhattan) rather than Japan (Neo-Tokyo). 3) Instead of World War III being the impetus for the psychic-nuclear explosion it is an event blamed on terrorists. 4) A new character is introduced named Ray Arcman, who is the mad scientist that created Akira by using psychic and kinetic experiments on children including the three Espers (the aged children from the original). 5) Asian gangsters run the underworld along with several motorcycle gangs (sadly, the “Clowns” are not in the film). Illegal drugs are still in demand and the gangs in turn have to pay tribute to their bosses, the ”Packies” (Pakistanis). 6) Princess Miyako is now an elderly trash-collecting lady in Old Manhattan and the Colonel’s part doesn’t come off as strong as he did in the animated version. 7)Yes, Travis (Tetsuo) does expand and morph into a ballooning human amoeba, but only for one short scene. 8)Kaneda gets a Tech 9 machine pistol instead of the high-tech-looking plasma-type weapon that was used in the original anime, and on the iconic Akira poster. [Epic Fail right here in my opinion-Gideon] 9) Zac Efron is slated for the role of Kaneda. [I actually like Zac, but not for this role] 10) The ending is weak and is clearly intended to open the door for a sequel. [uhg!] Well, Mr. Takei is right about the Epic Fail part for this film, but for the wrong reasons. The changes in the story, the setting, and the choice of actors doesn't look very promising for this Americanized version of Akira. I now amend what I posted earlier, for this film to not fail would take nothing short of a movie-miracle. |
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enurtsol
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It's still not a social satire though.
It's not that it's Western; it's that it's universal.
America had to suffer the specter of Russian nukes being dropped on them at any time during the decades of the Cold War. There have been so many dystopian stories about America after a thermonuclear war. So it's not just Japan.
Though Colbert was in animated Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law.
It's just a saying that holds true, though exact numbers aren't measured. There's a lot of those sayings. Do you know no one really measured that people need 8 glasses of water a day, but it's good for you.
It was based on a comics for girls. And Disney specifically made it to target more girls.
McCracken has the name to have it made, but it was really his wife Lauren who made it work.
Even Japanese animators themselves admit the talent is not there yet. It's like when the Japanese initially tried their hand on modern traditional animation after WW2 (when a lot of people thought Japanese animation was crap and prefer other animation too) - that talent was not there yet at that time too, but it's definitely there now. It's not that they don't prefer it. It's just a tool.
Much of anime does seem sexist. Not all. Even girl-aimed ones. It's like they could make the girls go all empowered, but they're holding back. It's tough to explain....
The live-action Speed Racer is based on the Americanized Speed Racer, not Mach Go Go Go. If you don't like the Americanized Speed Racer, then you'll probably also not like the live-action Speed Racer.
It earned more internationally. It did fine in Japan. And like The Last Airbender, whether the Akira remake fails or not will depend on the tastes of the mainstream consumers, domestic and international, not the tastes of the niche like us. My Transformers-loving friends and I didn't much like Bayformers, but look how far that got us - the mainstream literally run roughshod over us. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15279 |
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enurtsol:
Actually, considering it borrows heavily from Tetsujin/Gigantor, I've always believed Akira's a bit of a parody of the former series, 'cus you see it, and it comes off straight-laced and serious, while Akira's got a bit of a subversive streak at times.
There's nothing "universal" about being exposed to radiation bombs. Hell, even the government and chain of command they have is different from ours.
Yes, but not from personal experience. I mean, Otomo is basically one generation removed from those survivors. |
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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Why would they? Or more accurately, why should they? I won't claim to be an expert on Japanese politics, and I doubt anyone here is, but I'm betting it's a lot different than ours. What I do know is I don't consider Bush bashing or making fun of Liberals/Conservatives all that entertaining. Shows like Lil Bush, Thats My Bush, South Park, Family Guy, and other shows that are nothing more than soapboxes for the creator to shout out his views and that isn't necessarily a good thing. Japan also doesn't rely heavily on referential pop culture humor like America does or other aspects of our humor. The creators of Panty and Stocking made that clear; they said Japan isn't into the whole 'gross out humor' and they made P&S as kind of a gag to American gross out humor and made fun of it by taking it up to the extreme. Personally I'll take simple Miyazaki environmentalism or Grave of the Fireflies 'war is bad' over cheap shots at Bush anyday. I wouldn't say it's 'behind', just 'different'; it's a different culture; different aspects of humor and what not. So what if they don't make fun of celebrities or political figures? I'd say that's fairly mature and they strive to find entertainment in something else than senseless bashing.
So does comparing children's shows like Pokemon to adult shows. Though the fact you have to use adult live-action shows to compare to children's anime like Pokemon must mean American animation isn't good enough to do so.
That's a pretty big strawman, careful not to catch fire now. When I say mature I mean more like Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, Monster, or heck, something like Naruto is far more mature than any cartoon on American television right now. Violence and sex are not inherently bad as you try to make it out to be. It's nice that you can make a show about war and actually, you know, show war (POWs, dying, the horrors, etc) and not have it be like G.I Joe with lasers and silly villains all over) It's not about pandering, it's about common sense and treating things maturely. If you dislike those title's that's fine, but I think it's wonderful Japan is an open enough place you CAN make shows like that. Those would never fly in America due to animation being seen as only a kid's venue and also censorship issues. Queens Blade and Vampire whatever obviously have a fanbase; and good for them. Why exactly is this a bad thing again?
Speaking of which, it should be noted The Last Airbender movie did actually do fairly well. You'll realize the only people who bash and complain about it are Americans. Why? Because those people saw the cartoon, I imagine. Avatar kind of bombed outside of America in a lot of countries; heck, it only did mediocre here and got average ratings on Nickelodeon. A lot of people who saw the movie here probably never saw the show; I know a lot of Shamalayan fans (yes, there's quite a lot) who saw it just because he as attached. The movie is probably most people's first exposure to it.. and well, American movies do better in foreign countries than American television/cartoons do. No surprise the movie did better than the cartoon in other countries. |
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Shenl742
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That doesn't mean it CAN'T work, especially if Akira takes place in a "post-apocalyptic 'REAL' world", rather than a "Fantasy world loosely based on real cultures" |
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Sunday Silence
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Unfortunately, they are using pre-existing material and shamelessly adapting it to suit American Audiences. |
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Shenl742
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And I don't really get what the "shameful" part is. We don't really know anything about this project because nothing's final yet. Everyone here's just acting on bias, preconcieved notions and double standards |
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asimpson2006
Posts: 3151 Location: USA |
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THIS. This is what is upsetting me. Everyone is going off the notion that it is going to be horrible just because past Hollywood adaptions of anime have been bad. I would be lying if I did have in the back of my head the notion that this might not be that good, but there is a chance that this might break the mold and be a good movie. Not a great one, but a good one. |
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Jessica Hart
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There's optimism, and then there's just being unrealistic. Anime and manga just naturally don't work for Hollywood. Superhero comic books barely work for Hollywood, so something more complex and requiring more delicate handling in adapting like anime would just be a nightmare |
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asimpson2006
Posts: 3151 Location: USA |
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I am not being unrealistic. I'm being slightly optimistic about it. I still think it could fail, but there is also a chance that an adaption could break the mold be at least a decent movie. |
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littlegreenwolf
Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I think your example of Superhero properties barely working for Holly Wood is pretty much the worst example you can try to make here, seeing that Hollywood is no out to make each and every comic book a movie, and this summer we'll have no less than 4 major Summer Blockbuster style movies based on comic properties. Some try to be as accurate as possible (300, Watchmen) while others they take serious liberties with to appeal to mainstream movie going audiences (Iron Man, Batman). The problem is we as anime/manga fans want Zach Snyder to direct and produce our anime adaptions, but it isn't going to happen. You don't think the die hard comic book fans don't bemoan the changes they do to the Superhero movies, superhero movies that end up pretty much making tons of money anyway? Being realistic is figuring out an all Asian cast for an American adaption of Akira, one that takes place in Tokyo of all places - isn't going to be bought by American audiences. It wont pull in domestically the possible hundred million it'll take to make this fill. And I'm sorry, but in general anime is not more complex and requiring a "delicate handling" to produce into live action. That's BS - Japan shows it every time they create a live action adaption of their own, and the majority of anime/manga just plays one simple stereotype story lines as much as Western comics, if not more. You can try to belittle Western comics all you want, but really, you don't get more complex than the original Watchmen comic. |
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Jessica Hart
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What I mean is superhero movies were regarded as trash for the most part up until the first Sam Raimi Spider-Man movie. Movies like Baman Forever and various 90s flicks didn't really help them. So it wasn't until the 2000s that superhero movies really took off. The only film you could argue before that was the original Tim Burton's Batman, but Joel Schumacher shot that franchise down and people didn't want to touch Batman until Nolan.
For one thing, manga tend to have an actual plot while superhero comics don't, it's mostly standalone issues and arcs. You can boil Batman down to 'he fights the Joker/someone, throws him in jail, and then repeats again next time he escapes' which is what most of the cartoons and movies are , a new villain for ever movie and Batman continuity is so loose there's no real story in the comics to adhere to; making it easy to translate to film. Manga/anime tend to have a more linear narrative with stories compassing the whole series, so you can't really do the same with, say, Naruto, and just have a movie about him fighting Orochimaru or one of the random Akatsuki members, the plot is too tight and overlapping to do that to compress everything into two hours. You end up with stuff like Dragonball Evolution if you try that. |
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Shenl742
Posts: 1524 |
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Wow, it sounds like to me that you haven't read any comics made after the 1970s because they sure as heck aren't all like that. Hell, a lot of comics, even super-hero ones, have been heavily trying to be more "arc-based" for the last 10 years (something a lot of fans have been arguing as to whether that's a good thing or not, but hey, internet). That's not even getting into the NON-superhero comics. And there are no shortage of anime/manga that follow the same methods of continuity that you say comics follow.... ...but I think this is REALLY getting off topic and is in danger of degenerating into an "East vs. West" flame war. |
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prime_pm
Posts: 2333 Location: Your Mother's Bedroom |
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Still not locked? Come on people! Make more racial jokes!
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