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INTEREST: Star Trek Actor Petitions Against Akira 'Whitewashing'


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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15279
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:33 am Reply with quote
Overlord:
Quote:
Except how often do they have modern political satire in Japan? Criticizing today's government directly, rather then the government in the 40s? Using sci fi settings to criticize government policies as being around for ever, how often do they they make fun of the Japanese Prime Minister or government directly? Japan is really behind america and especially the UK, in terms of social satire, its leagues behind.


Actually, I'm aware of two anime which made fun of Koizumi so far.

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Is Pokemon better then the Wire?


I haven't seen The Wire, but the fact that you as a consumer gotta pay a company like HBO directly to produce a quality show when the ones which are raking in millions do so with utter banal crap like Jersey Shore says it all about our entertainment industry.

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Is Yu-Gi-Oh better then Mad Men?


I haven't seen Mad Men, but if I had a dollar for the # of American shows and movies which crib off 60s pop culture...

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I would rather watch Up then Eiken Club, I would rather watch Wall-E then Queen's blade, because Wall-E and Up are better written.


That may be the case, but I'd rather watch Beelzebub than Cars 2. Oh, and Wall-E ripped off Freedom Project.

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Queen's blade and Eiken Club are examples of immature programs then use sex to appear mature, but come off as written by horny 14 year olds.


Yeah, but if they reference old-ass cartoon styles then people will give it a high score like Drawn Together. Rolling Eyes

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Look at something like the Vampire Bund, if you show that to other people, people won't think you are mature and cultured, they will think you are weirdo. With Vampire Bund, it has content that makes it unappealing to most people in the West and likely a lot of people in Japan.


Not that I really care about 'Bund, but if people are so eager to praise a movie where a little girl dresses like Britney Spears and talks like a porn star, then I don't see why 'Bund should get more scrutiny.

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Frankly there is more adult aimed animations round now in the West then ever before, with PG-13 and R DTVS.


Um, outside of South Park and Family Guy, they're all superhero stuff.

Gideon:
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Hollywood is hardly the bastion of Aryan white supremacy,


Well, yeah, if you compare racial compositions in Hollywood productions to those made in Sweden, we're clearly less racist in casting. But in terms of which groups actually continue to buy movies and shows versus who gets major gigs in the industry, there's a clear disparity at work.

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If it's okay to use such a term for a movie that happens to have a cast of actors who are all Caucasian, does that mean a movie with an all black cast is a "Black Out?" or an all Asian cast is a "rice bowl." Racism cuts both ways.


I like how you're trying to equate a whole history of white actors intentionally playing minority characters in negative ways with one or two movies or shows which happen to cast predominantly minority talent who can't seem to get noticed anywhere else, even though they're just as capable as their Caucasian brethren. Because that's clearly the same f**king thing. And given your own background, you should recognize that distinction better than anyone.

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I don't judge actors on the color of their skin, I judge them on their abilities as actors and could care less what race they are.


Yes, but that's what Takei is complaining about, that these actors got a free pass because they're white.

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If Kaneda ends up being a Native American and Tetsuo a Black guy, I wouldn't even notice so long as they're great actors.


Well, that's nice, but it's not like Daredevil where Kingpin got played by Michael Clark Duncan. In that case, he was portraying someone with the same body type, not someone based on a particular cultural background.

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George Takei is upset that the lead roles are being played by white people, not Americans.


And why wouldn't he be? I mean, he was only sent to an internment camp for being Japanese, so he wouldn't know shit about being singled out or left out because of his ethnicity. Rolling Eyes

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Since the producers for the US film are fronting the money, they get the say on how the film will be produced and who will act in it.


Well, technically, the audience will have the final word, and the producers will hopefully be fired.

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They have to turn a profit and I assume they know how.


If they knew how, then they wouldn't be touching Akira in the first place, because it'll just be a bomb like Watchmen all over again, even if the casting wasn't an issue.

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He's saying that only an Asian actor(s) can make this film succeed whereas white actors will make it flop.


Well, given the title, yeah.

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That's like saying only Americans can make a successful western movie, yet the Italians made spaghetti westerns for years that were quite good.


True, but the concept of a Western is a little more "international" than Akira.

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Therefore, Mr. Takei's logic isn't based on how badly Americanized versions of Japanese films--like M. Night Shamala's screenplay script for "The Last Airbender"--are written, or produced, Mr. Takei based the failure of these Americanized films on white/American actors being in the lead roles.
That's not a logical argument, it's a racist one.


Given that the appeal of the show was its cultural elements, the fact that those were diluted for a white audience adds validity to Takei's argument.

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What race the actors are, and whether they're Japanese or not, clearly isn't even a consideration for Warner.


Then why can't they find some hot young Asian/Asian-American 20-somethings for the parts? Justin Lin had no problem doing that, and Better Luck Tomorrow was well-received.

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Mr. Takei is clearly lying here unless he's getting so old he's gotten senile and forgotten about Bruce Lee, Jet Lee, Pat Morita, Jackie Chan, Sho Kasugi, Lucy Liu, Meg Tilly (American of Chinese descent), Anna May Wong, Brenda Song, etc., et nausium.


Jackie Chan, Jet Li, and Sho Kosugi aren't American, and they haven't sold a movie solely on their own names, which is the point I assume Takei's making.

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Why should it matter what race the actors are?
If the only criteria is that the actor's performance be one of high quality, then the race of the actor/actress shouldn't matter.


Well, ok, these actors don't have quality performances, either.

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The fate of this movie will depend on the quality of how its produced and nothing more.
Look at The Ring.
That was a Japanese movie Americanized with a great cast of actors, an excellent script, and special effects.


The Ring was successful partly because it translated an urban legend for an American audience which, while not familiar with the source material, had experience with the concept in other forms. The H'wood Akira looks to simply be a wretched cash-in with little respect for the source material.

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If there were any Asian actors, Native American actors, Americans-of-African descent, Americans-of-Indian descent, Latin Americans, etc. that WB considered suitable for the lead roles in this movie then they'd be on the shortlist.


Well, you don't know that, because so many of them never even get their foot in the door in the first place.


Last edited by GATSU on Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gideon Krieg



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:35 am Reply with quote
ArsenicSteel wrote:
WB is hacking away at the story, setting, and characters in some odd attempt to one-up what Katsuhiro Otomo accomplished. What Takei surmises is that these changes will doom the film, I agree. There is no need to sugarcoat it as Americanization when whitewash hits the nail on the head. When a few of the actors are not even American the idea that Akira is being Americanized is not even valid.

There is no need to belabor it, regardless of the reasons that most concern you, the cumulative changes to Akira looks like it is a failure in the making.


Except that Morgan Freedman might also take offense to the term "whitewash" in a film he's purported to be in.
Morgan may take the role of Colonel Shikishima, and that is the final nail in the coffin of Mr. Takei's racist rant.
However, YOU ArsenicSteel are quite correct in your assessment of this movie now that I've taken the time to fully read what the script changes are for this project I must say that I totally agree.
You put the fire under my behind to google articles on this movie and find out what Warner Bros. is doing to my beloved Akira, and for that I thank you.
We disagree on the Mr. Takei's part in this debate, but I now completely agree with you that this Americanized Akira will flop (I hadn't read all the details about this until now).
For those of you who would like to know what the changes are to the original story, here are the highlights from the Screenrant article on it:

1) Tetsuo's name changed to Travis.

2) It takes place in New York (Neo-Manhattan) rather than Japan (Neo-Tokyo).

3) Instead of World War III being the impetus for the psychic-nuclear explosion it is an event blamed on terrorists.

4) A new character is introduced named Ray Arcman, who is the mad scientist that created Akira by using psychic and kinetic experiments on children including the three Espers (the aged children from the original).

5) Asian gangsters run the underworld along with several motorcycle gangs (sadly, the “Clowns” are not in the film). Illegal drugs are still in demand and the gangs in turn have to pay tribute to their bosses, the ”Packies” (Pakistanis).

6) Princess Miyako is now an elderly trash-collecting lady in Old Manhattan and the Colonel’s part doesn’t come off as strong as he did in the animated version.

7)Yes, Travis (Tetsuo) does expand and morph into a ballooning human amoeba, but only for one short scene.

8)Kaneda gets a Tech 9 machine pistol instead of the high-tech-looking plasma-type weapon that was used in the original anime, and on the iconic Akira poster. [Epic Fail right here in my opinion-Gideon]

9) Zac Efron is slated for the role of Kaneda. [I actually like Zac, but not for this role]

10) The ending is weak and is clearly intended to open the door for a sequel. [uhg!]

Well, Mr. Takei is right about the Epic Fail part for this film, but for the wrong reasons.
The changes in the story, the setting, and the choice of actors doesn't look very promising for this Americanized version of Akira.
I now amend what I posted earlier, for this film to not fail would take nothing short of a movie-miracle.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14746
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:15 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
enurtsol wrote:
Everyone works within some constraints. It's what you do within those constraints that makes it great. For instance, anime could never do a proper current social satire to save its life. You won't see the talents the likes of Colbert Report there.

That's kind of ironic given Akira is a social reflection of Japan's disaffected youth during the 80s, specifically the effects that a military-industrial complex had. Plus the obvious allegories to the Hiroshima bombings and Japan's overall economical trouble in a post-war environment.


It's still not a social satire though.


TitanXL wrote:

For people saying 'Akira is very Western and loses nothing by being set in America'


It's not that it's Western; it's that it's universal.


TitanXL wrote:

America never had a couple nukes dropped on them.


America had to suffer the specter of Russian nukes being dropped on them at any time during the decades of the Cold War. There have been so many dystopian stories about America after a thermonuclear war. So it's not just Japan.


TitanXL wrote:

though the Colbert Report isn't animated, so it's not really applicable here.


Though Colbert was in animated Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law. Laughing


TitanXL wrote:
enurtsol wrote:
90% of anything is crap; it's just that that 90% is different to different people. But if you don't watch enough of anything, it'll be harder to find that 10%.

Eh, I always find that statement a weak excuse since it's not like it has any actual scientific measurement or tests done on it.


It's just a saying that holds true, though exact numbers aren't measured. There's a lot of those sayings. Do you know no one really measured that people need 8 glasses of water a day, but it's good for you. Laughing


TitanXL wrote:
enurtsol wrote:
Weisman also directed the 2nd season of W.I.T.C.H., which is the best shoujo series that was on American TV in the last several years.


It's also the only one that was made in that timeframe so it kind of wins by default Razz Though actually it was aimed at boys, not girls, as Weisman ironically pointed out in an interview when he said one of the things he found most troubling was making a show with five girls in pink and butterfly wings be aimed at guys.


It was based on a comics for girls. And Disney specifically made it to target more girls. Laughing


TitanXL wrote:
enurtsol wrote:
Not really a fan of Faust, but she was the main one responsible for Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, and that's pretty good.

That was Craig McCracken if I'm not mistaken,


McCracken has the name to have it made, but it was really his wife Lauren who made it work.


TitanXL wrote:
enurtsol wrote:
(BTW, anime still can't do proper 3D animation. They can't do in 3D animation what they can do very well in traditional animation. The talent is still not there yet.)


I'd say they can as seen by Cat **** One ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wncS6tO59M ) but prefer not to; and I would agree with them, I definitely prefer traditional animation myself.


Even Japanese animators themselves admit the talent is not there yet. It's like when the Japanese initially tried their hand on modern traditional animation after WW2 (when a lot of people thought Japanese animation was crap and prefer other animation too) - that talent was not there yet at that time too, but it's definitely there now. It's not that they don't prefer it. It's just a tool.


TitanXL wrote:
littlegreenwolf wrote:

To me there is nothing more ironic than an anime fan claiming all American television animation is crap while at the same time supporting an industry where the majority of stuff their air on television is completely and utterly forgettable – reused and recycled - not to mention sexist - crap.


Honest, you sounded like you described the American industry. I really don't think you can call anime sexist when they have two whole markets (shoujo and josei) aimed at women of various ages, while America has exactly.... zilch. Unless you mean fanservice shows, then you're obviously looking in the wrong area. Maybe you can clarify a bit? Honestly this just sounds like more 'Anime was better back in my day' stuff that's kind of old and played out.


Much of anime does seem sexist. Not all. Even girl-aimed ones. It's like they could make the girls go all empowered, but they're holding back. It's tough to explain.... Confused


TitanXL wrote:
Sorry, I just found Speed Racer to just be a bad movie. I didn't find Mach Go Go Go wasn't super great in the first place, but I'm not going to pick favorites and say it's fine to do that even to shows I don't care for.


The live-action Speed Racer is based on the Americanized Speed Racer, not Mach Go Go Go. If you don't like the Americanized Speed Racer, then you'll probably also not like the live-action Speed Racer.


Sunday Silence wrote:
Zac wrote:
The film was a massive critical failure, for sure, and is widely considered (and rightfully so) to be one of the worst movies ever made, but it did just fine in theaters.


And god bless the Dumb American Consumers!!


It earned more internationally. It did fine in Japan.

And like The Last Airbender, whether the Akira remake fails or not will depend on the tastes of the mainstream consumers, domestic and international, not the tastes of the niche like us. My Transformers-loving friends and I didn't much like Bayformers, but look how far that got us - the mainstream literally run roughshod over us. Confused
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:35 am Reply with quote
enurtsol:
Quote:
It's still not a social satire though.


Actually, considering it borrows heavily from Tetsujin/Gigantor, I've always believed Akira's a bit of a parody of the former series, 'cus you see it, and it comes off straight-laced and serious, while Akira's got a bit of a subversive streak at times.

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It's not that it's Western; it's that it's universal.


There's nothing "universal" about being exposed to radiation bombs. Hell, even the government and chain of command they have is different from ours.

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There have been so many dystopian stories about America after a thermonuclear war.


Yes, but not from personal experience. I mean, Otomo is basically one generation removed from those survivors.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:21 am Reply with quote
The Overlord wrote:
Except how often do they have modern political satire in Japan? Criticizing today's government directly, rather then the government in the 40s? Using sci fi settings to criticize government policies as being around for ever, how often do they they make fun of the Japanese Prime Minister or government directly? Japan is really behind america and especially the UK, in terms of social satire, its leagues behind.

Why would they? Or more accurately, why should they? I won't claim to be an expert on Japanese politics, and I doubt anyone here is, but I'm betting it's a lot different than ours. What I do know is I don't consider Bush bashing or making fun of Liberals/Conservatives all that entertaining. Shows like Lil Bush, Thats My Bush, South Park, Family Guy, and other shows that are nothing more than soapboxes for the creator to shout out his views and that isn't necessarily a good thing. Japan also doesn't rely heavily on referential pop culture humor like America does or other aspects of our humor. The creators of Panty and Stocking made that clear; they said Japan isn't into the whole 'gross out humor' and they made P&S as kind of a gag to American gross out humor and made fun of it by taking it up to the extreme. Personally I'll take simple Miyazaki environmentalism or Grave of the Fireflies 'war is bad' over cheap shots at Bush anyday. I wouldn't say it's 'behind', just 'different'; it's a different culture; different aspects of humor and what not. So what if they don't make fun of celebrities or political figures? I'd say that's fairly mature and they strive to find entertainment in something else than senseless bashing.

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Except you are saying anime is not only better then American animation, which is highly debatable, but better then anything in American TV and movies, which is extremely silly. How much American TV do you watch? Is Pokemon better then the Wire? Is Yu-Gi-Oh better then Mad Men? Suggesting that anime is better then everything in the West makes one look rather insulated and uncultured.

So does comparing children's shows like Pokemon to adult shows. Though the fact you have to use adult live-action shows to compare to children's anime like Pokemon must mean American animation isn't good enough to do so.

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Now regarding animation, sex and violence do not instantly make something better or mature. I would rather watch Up then Eiken Club, I would rather watch Wall-E then Queen's blade, because Wall-E and Up are better written. Queen's blade and Eiken Club are examples of immature programs then use sex to appear mature, but come off as written by horny 14 year olds. Programs like Queen's Blade are what is wrong with anime nowadays, too many shows aimed geeky pervs rather then a general audience. That's a huge problem with anime today and anyone who ignores it is fooling themselves: http://tomsito.com/blog.php?post=1093. Its hard to say anime is more mature then anything else, when a lot of the modern output is something most people would find juvenile and intellectually insulting. Look at something like the Vampire Bund, if you show that to other people, people won't think you are mature and cultured, they will think you are weirdo. With Vampire Bund, it has content that makes it unappealing to most people in the West and likely a lot of people in Japan. Also the best to introduce anime to others is not to insult everything else ever made in entertainment.


That's a pretty big strawman, careful not to catch fire now. When I say mature I mean more like Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, Monster, or heck, something like Naruto is far more mature than any cartoon on American television right now. Violence and sex are not inherently bad as you try to make it out to be. It's nice that you can make a show about war and actually, you know, show war (POWs, dying, the horrors, etc) and not have it be like G.I Joe with lasers and silly villains all over) It's not about pandering, it's about common sense and treating things maturely.

If you dislike those title's that's fine, but I think it's wonderful Japan is an open enough place you CAN make shows like that. Those would never fly in America due to animation being seen as only a kid's venue and also censorship issues. Queens Blade and Vampire whatever obviously have a fanbase; and good for them. Why exactly is this a bad thing again?

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Having more shows aimed at them, really limits any sort of wide appeal anime can have.
Anime's not really limited considering just how big it is around the world; including Japan. There's 'nerd shows' as you put it, and well, there's nerds all across the globe. That's why we have hundreds of anime cons in every country of the world. One Piece and Naruto alone are huge, and this says nothing of shows like Sazae-san and Detective Conan

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Frankly there is more adult aimed animations round now in the West then ever before, with PG-13 and R DTVS. Also the cartoon Network has been trying to aim at a higher age audience by making more PG shows and PG is the general rating for a lot of TV in general, Star Trek was rated PG, for example.
The only American OVAs I see are superhero stuff aimed at comic book fans; not exactly a pioneering venue of creativity or originality. I watched some PG stuff on CN and I didn't see anything mature or PG about it. I remember Y7 shows back in the 90s got away with more. I think thats just a result of American censorship tightening over the years. I mean.. depicting anyone smoking gets a film an automatic R rating here now. Until I see animated shows like Monster come out of the west, or at least One Piece, Naruto, and other shounen level, I'll give it to Japan.

Shenl742 wrote:
But if the story takes place in a post-apocalyptic future you can pretty much make up any kind of cultural/social shifts and allegories you want, regardless of what country it's set in. Tons of science fiction does that.
Yeah.. The Last Airbender pulled that 'it's a fantasy world' card and it didn't go so well over with those fans.

Speaking of which, it should be noted The Last Airbender movie did actually do fairly well. You'll realize the only people who bash and complain about it are Americans. Why? Because those people saw the cartoon, I imagine. Avatar kind of bombed outside of America in a lot of countries; heck, it only did mediocre here and got average ratings on Nickelodeon. A lot of people who saw the movie here probably never saw the show; I know a lot of Shamalayan fans (yes, there's quite a lot) who saw it just because he as attached. The movie is probably most people's first exposure to it.. and well, American movies do better in foreign countries than American television/cartoons do. No surprise the movie did better than the cartoon in other countries.
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Shenl742



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:02 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Yeah.. The Last Airbender pulled that 'it's a fantasy world' card and it didn't go so well over with those fans.


That doesn't mean it CAN'T work, especially if Akira takes place in a "post-apocalyptic 'REAL' world", rather than a "Fantasy world loosely based on real cultures"
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Sunday Silence



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:06 am Reply with quote
Shenl742 wrote:
Quote:
Yeah.. The Last Airbender pulled that 'it's a fantasy world' card and it didn't go so well over with those fans.


That doesn't mean it CAN'T work, especially if Akira takes place in a "post-apocalyptic 'REAL' world", rather than a "Fantasy world loosely based on real cultures"


Unfortunately, they are using pre-existing material and shamelessly adapting it to suit American Audiences.
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Shenl742



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:23 am Reply with quote
Sunday Silence wrote:
Shenl742 wrote:
Quote:
Yeah.. The Last Airbender pulled that 'it's a fantasy world' card and it didn't go so well over with those fans.


That doesn't mean it CAN'T work, especially if Akira takes place in a "post-apocalyptic 'REAL' world", rather than a "Fantasy world loosely based on real cultures"


Unfortunately, they are using pre-existing material and shamelessly adapting it to suit American Audiences.


And I don't really get what the "shameful" part is. We don't really know anything about this project because nothing's final yet.

Everyone here's just acting on bias, preconcieved notions and double standards
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asimpson2006



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:38 am Reply with quote
Shenl742 wrote:

And I don't really get what the "shameful" part is. We don't really know anything about this project because nothing's final yet.

Everyone here's just acting on bias, preconcieved notions and double standards


THIS. This is what is upsetting me. Everyone is going off the notion that it is going to be horrible just because past Hollywood adaptions of anime have been bad. I would be lying if I did have in the back of my head the notion that this might not be that good, but there is a chance that this might break the mold and be a good movie. Not a great one, but a good one.
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Jessica Hart



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 219
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:51 am Reply with quote
asimpson2006 wrote:
THIS. This is what is upsetting me. Everyone is going off the notion that it is going to be horrible just because past Hollywood adaptions of anime have been bad. I would be lying if I did have in the back of my head the notion that this might not be that good, but there is a chance that this might break the mold and be a good movie. Not a great one, but a good one.

There's optimism, and then there's just being unrealistic. Anime and manga just naturally don't work for Hollywood. Superhero comic books barely work for Hollywood, so something more complex and requiring more delicate handling in adapting like anime would just be a nightmare
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asimpson2006



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:06 am Reply with quote
Jessica Hart wrote:

There's optimism, and then there's just being unrealistic. Anime and manga just naturally don't work for Hollywood. Superhero comic books barely work for Hollywood, so something more complex and requiring more delicate handling in adapting like anime would just be a nightmare


I am not being unrealistic. I'm being slightly optimistic about it. I still think it could fail, but there is also a chance that an adaption could break the mold be at least a decent movie.
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littlegreenwolf



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:50 am Reply with quote
Jessica Hart wrote:
There's optimism, and then there's just being unrealistic. Anime and manga just naturally don't work for Hollywood. Superhero comic books barely work for Hollywood, so something more complex and requiring more delicate handling in adapting like anime would just be a nightmare


I think your example of Superhero properties barely working for Holly Wood is pretty much the worst example you can try to make here, seeing that Hollywood is no out to make each and every comic book a movie, and this summer we'll have no less than 4 major Summer Blockbuster style movies based on comic properties. Some try to be as accurate as possible (300, Watchmen) while others they take serious liberties with to appeal to mainstream movie going audiences (Iron Man, Batman). The problem is we as anime/manga fans want Zach Snyder to direct and produce our anime adaptions, but it isn't going to happen. You don't think the die hard comic book fans don't bemoan the changes they do to the Superhero movies, superhero movies that end up pretty much making tons of money anyway?

Being realistic is figuring out an all Asian cast for an American adaption of Akira, one that takes place in Tokyo of all places - isn't going to be bought by American audiences. It wont pull in domestically the possible hundred million it'll take to make this fill.

And I'm sorry, but in general anime is not more complex and requiring a "delicate handling" to produce into live action. That's BS - Japan shows it every time they create a live action adaption of their own, and the majority of anime/manga just plays one simple stereotype story lines as much as Western comics, if not more. You can try to belittle Western comics all you want, but really, you don't get more complex than the original Watchmen comic.
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Jessica Hart



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:13 pm Reply with quote
littlegreenwolf wrote:
I think your example of Superhero properties barely working for Holly Wood is pretty much the worst example you can try to make here, seeing that Hollywood is no out to make each and every comic book a movie, and this summer we'll have no less than 4 major Summer Blockbuster style movies based on comic properties. Some try to be as accurate as possible (300, Watchmen) while others they take serious liberties with to appeal to mainstream movie going audiences (Iron Man, Batman). The problem is we as anime/manga fans want Zach Snyder to direct and produce our anime adaptions, but it isn't going to happen. You don't think the die hard comic book fans don't bemoan the changes they do to the Superhero movies, superhero movies that end up pretty much making tons of money anyway?

What I mean is superhero movies were regarded as trash for the most part up until the first Sam Raimi Spider-Man movie. Movies like Baman Forever and various 90s flicks didn't really help them. So it wasn't until the 2000s that superhero movies really took off. The only film you could argue before that was the original Tim Burton's Batman, but Joel Schumacher shot that franchise down and people didn't want to touch Batman until Nolan.

Quote:
And I'm sorry, but in general anime is not more complex and requiring a "delicate handling" to produce into live action. That's BS - Japan shows it every time they create a live action adaption of their own, and the majority of anime/manga just plays one simple stereotype story lines as much as Western comics, if not more. You can try to belittle Western comics all you want, but really, you don't get more complex than the original Watchmen comic.

For one thing, manga tend to have an actual plot while superhero comics don't, it's mostly standalone issues and arcs. You can boil Batman down to 'he fights the Joker/someone, throws him in jail, and then repeats again next time he escapes' which is what most of the cartoons and movies are , a new villain for ever movie and Batman continuity is so loose there's no real story in the comics to adhere to; making it easy to translate to film. Manga/anime tend to have a more linear narrative with stories compassing the whole series, so you can't really do the same with, say, Naruto, and just have a movie about him fighting Orochimaru or one of the random Akatsuki members, the plot is too tight and overlapping to do that to compress everything into two hours. You end up with stuff like Dragonball Evolution if you try that.
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Shenl742



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1524
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:59 pm Reply with quote
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For one thing, manga tend to have an actual plot while superhero comics don't, it's mostly standalone issues and arcs. You can boil Batman down to 'he fights the Joker/someone, throws him in jail, and then repeats again next time he escapes' which is what most of the cartoons and movies are , a new villain for ever movie and Batman continuity is so loose there's no real story in the comics to adhere to; making it easy to translate to film. Manga/anime tend to have a more linear narrative with stories compassing the whole series, so you can't really do the same with, say, Naruto, and just have a movie about him fighting Orochimaru or one of the random Akatsuki members, the plot is too tight and overlapping to do that to compress everything into two hours. You end up with stuff like Dragonball Evolution if you try that.


Wow, it sounds like to me that you haven't read any comics made after the 1970s because they sure as heck aren't all like that. Hell, a lot of comics, even super-hero ones, have been heavily trying to be more "arc-based" for the last 10 years (something a lot of fans have been arguing as to whether that's a good thing or not, but hey, internet). That's not even getting into the NON-superhero comics.

And there are no shortage of anime/manga that follow the same methods of continuity that you say comics follow....

...but I think this is REALLY getting off topic and is in danger of degenerating into an "East vs. West" flame war.
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prime_pm



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 2333
Location: Your Mother's Bedroom
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:42 pm Reply with quote
Still not locked? Come on people! Make more racial jokes!
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