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Opinions on Chrono Crusade


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NyuuChan



Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:43 pm Reply with quote
I just finished this today....and it left me really sad.

anyway, as the title implies, what did you all think of CC?

and did anyone else dislike the ending?
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Azathrael



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 745
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:45 pm Reply with quote
It left you sad - why?
You implied that you disliked the ending - why?

You do know that you have to add your own opinions to start a thread?

spoiler[If you weren't sad after watching the ending, then you're probably suffering from some emotional disorder. What was kind of unclear was whether Chrno was going to die or not, I don't really remember what happened at the end, but Rosette's clock running out must've sucked for her. She's not even 20 and she dies and ]that theme was just so indicative of how bad Christianity really is. It's a shitty religion that requires endless self-sacrifice, to the point where your own life means nothing since "it was created by God, God is omniscient and omnipotent, and he will reward you with Heaven in the afterlife". Like I really care about going to heaven, when I have to suffer my entire life during my time on earth.
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Fui



Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 339
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:02 pm Reply with quote
o m f g.

The irony of this is killing me. I swear, this is too ironic and I'm going to die now.

Read my response to your other thread regarding Chobits. Like 10 mins ago I said, "Just don't watch Chrono Crusade." Little did I know that you were just finishing it up...

On-topic: spoiler[I totally understand your feeling about the ending. I was like WTF they're not gonna leave them like that are they...but yeah. Seriously every single main character dying was way over-board for me and on top of that the most evil bad guy ever survives and is totally happy. I can stand sad endings, but this one was a little too much for me.]
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Greennunu



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 145
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:13 pm Reply with quote
NyuuChan wrote:
I just finished this today....and it left me really sad.

anyway, as the title implies, what did you all think of CC?

and did anyone else dislike the ending?


Well spoiler[Them dying wasn't a big surprise, and it really wasn't sad until the part where Rosette started to cry and said she didn't want to die] which kinda caught me by surprise.

I don't think it matters what religion it's based off... Most religion if you self sacrafice you're rewarded in the afterlife. To point that out just cause they used christianity as a basis of the anime seems a little unfair.
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v1cious



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 6199
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:15 pm Reply with quote
see, i loved the ending to this anime. it was a turn from what everyone was expecting. they were willing to go that Extra Mile, even it it meant pissing people off, and it worked. the only thing i didn't like was the final scene. i just didn't understand it.

Last edited by v1cious on Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:04 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Deltakiral



Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 3338
Location: Glendora, CA (Avatar Hei from Darker than BLACK)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:20 pm Reply with quote
Azathrael wrote:
It left you sad - why?
You implied that you disliked the ending - why?

You do know that you have to add your own opinions to start a thread?

spoiler[If you weren't sad after watching the ending, then you're probably suffering from some emotional disorder. What was kind of unclear was whether Chrno was going to die or not, I don't really remember what happened at the end, but Rosette's clock running out must've sucked for her. She's not even 20 and she dies and ]
If I remember correctly spoiler[I think Chrono really does die with Rosette, I think he decides to go with her instead of having the same cruel fate happen to someone else. But yea that was very sad, and I wouldn't say I dislike to answer the Original Poster question, I thought it was fitting that they went together. I certainly found it interesting how the 'devil' came back to earth in order to kill the pope, but then again if there was no evil there is no good in the world. That why it has always been a struggle for balance between those two.]

Azathrael wrote:
that theme was just so indicative of how bad Christianity really is. It's a shitty religion that requires endless self-sacrifice, to the point where your own life means nothing since "it was created by God, God is omniscient and omnipotent, and he will reward you with Heaven in the afterlife". Like I really care about going to heaven, when I have to suffer my entire life during my time on earth.

Hey take it easy, I am not disagreeing with you that I find religion to be the source of some problems (as are most things) but there is no reason to rant against 'God'. More importantly I don't think that Christianity as a whole preaches 'self-sacrifice' (I used to be a devoted Catholic so principal are relatively similar) more it ask the individual to decide how they want to live their life through 'God' as a vessel. You don't have to care about Heaven, but that certainly one of the themes in the story is giving yourself you a higher purpose (could be God) or goal. I mean Rosetta spoiler[is a Martydar in the story so you should of had an understanding that she was going to give her life for her cause.] Not to make this a religious argument but the original post didn't leave for much structure.
Till next time,

Delta Kiral
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Fui



Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 339
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:01 pm Reply with quote
Azathrael wrote:
that theme was just so indicative of how bad Christianity really is. It's a shitty religion that requires endless self-sacrifice, to the point where your own life means nothing since "it was created by God, God is omniscient and omnipotent, and he will reward you with Heaven in the afterlife". Like I really care about going to heaven, when I have to suffer my entire life during my time on earth.

Actually, it always occurred to me that it would be the other way around. If you consider the length of one's life (0-100 years) and the length of eternity (one's life x 10gabillionzillionx1930^347832+foreverxinfinity) then suffering one's life can hardly be called a fair trade/sacrifice. That's another thing that bugs me; say if a child died 2 days after childbirth (and was thus never a Christian) would it go to hell because it was never a Christian? Or would it go to Heaven by default. Either way is really unfair, because I'd gladly die in 2 days to live happily in "heaven" for eternity, and it would be pretty messed if a little baby had no choice and was sent to hell.
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Nagisa
Moderator


Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 6128
Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:25 pm Reply with quote
NyuuChan wrote:
I just finished this today....and it left me really sad.


By the way, next time you start a thread, have more to say on the subject than just this.
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CyberViper



Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 218
Location: Matsumoto, Nagano Japan
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:41 pm Reply with quote
I really loved this series and it was probably one of my favorites of all time. It did take me a while to get into it, but by the time I was done watching it I was just amazed. I didn't actually expect it to end the way it did. spoiler[I thought it would leave the viewer with the knowledge that Rosette was going to die young but not actually have her AND Chrno die in the anime.] That is just what I was expecting. It also just broke my heart whenspoiler[ Rosette was always willing to use the power of the clock, knowing it would shorten her life, in order to achieve her goals, but at the very end she was so scared of dying. But Chrno was there with her and died with her. ] I just literally broke down after that.

Overall I thought it was a great series.

Also:
Quote:

Azathrael wrote:
that theme was just so indicative of how bad Christianity really is........

Fui wrote: Actually, it always occurred to me that it would be the other way around. If you consider the length of one's life (0-100 years) and the length of eternity........


Well, I was raised as a catholic, and i'm pretty sure that according the basic christianity belief even if you are not christian you still can go to heaven. God is supposed to be all forgiving, so on and so forth. If you ask for forgiveness you are forgiven and the only unforgivable sin is forsaking christ. (Something like that). So unless you don't beleive in god when you die and never ask for forgiveness is the only way to go to hell. And then there are mortal sins? Which can't be forgiven? Right, that's why I can't stand christianity, too many contradictions.

In the middle ages it was more as Azathrael said: you live a really horrible life and simply do as you are told by your lord and the church and then, if you do your job on earth well, you get to go for heaven forever. It was the church's way of controlling the people back then. Work for the higher-ups and live horribly, but it's worth it in the end. I think that's just plain awful since we don't know if there is an afterlife or not...they could have been living their only lives horribly. But they beleived it.

That's why I totally gave up christianity a long time ago. Atheist till I die and go and rot in the dirt forever!
I'll shut up now before I go on a rant...oh wait...too late.
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Deltakiral



Joined: 07 Oct 2004
Posts: 3338
Location: Glendora, CA (Avatar Hei from Darker than BLACK)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:52 pm Reply with quote
Fui wrote:
Actually, it always occurred to me that it would be the other way around. If you consider the length of one's life (0-100 years) and the length of eternity (one's life x 10gabillionzillionx1930^347832+foreverxinfinity) then suffering one's life can hardly be called a fair trade/sacrifice. That's another thing that bugs me; say if a child died 2 days after childbirth (and was thus never a Christian) would it go to hell because it was never a Christian? Or would it go to Heaven by default. Either way is really unfair, because I'd gladly die in 2 days to live happily in "heaven" for eternity, and it would be pretty messed if a little baby had no choice and was sent to hell.
What you are talking about is know as Pascal Wager, many of you know pascal for being the math guy, but he was a famous philiopher who invented the idea of looking at the risk of believeing and not. Such there was 4 path to one life, first you believe (God) and he is real, (according with pascal wager) you gain heaven and all it is glory. If you believe and he doesn't exist Pascal believed that this your life was then fill with good deeds, and you stay out of unmoral things. If you don't believe and he is real you have lost everything, where as if you don't believe and he is not real, you have gain a life filled with doing things that are unmoral to the laws of man.
Till next time,

Delta Kiral
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Vortextk



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 892
Location: Orlando, Fl
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:00 pm Reply with quote
Yup but as my philosophy teacher got into...if you simply believe in God because Pascal says, "hey 50/50 you're right and you go to heaven", do you "truly" believe in God? That's like being an Athiest but trying to force yourself to believe in something else because if we look at this like an odd's game, it's in your favor to believe in God. I definitely couldn't fake or try to force myself to believe in religion, I can't say I'm right but I just don't believe in any of that.

Anyway, when CC ended...spoiler[I was devastated. As everyone else said, it's not THAT they died...it's that Rosette started crying and yelling that made it even worse than it was. This anime was probably in the first 10 or 15 I finished and so I wasn't getting quite used to "not perfect endings". Even when the scene was starting to end, I was so SURE that something was going to happen...something would bring them back to life. Too bad =/. I've pretty much refused to rewatch it since then. Even if I skipped the end, I'd feel for the characters again and have to remember that they die.]


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NyuuChan



Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:32 pm Reply with quote
well, isn't it obvious? What else to put one's spirits out than not only killing one very likeable main character, but then having his best friend cry herself unto her death.

im not even going to bother finishing SaiKano if it ends like this Anime hyper
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Fui



Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 339
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:08 am Reply with quote
NyuuChan wrote:
well, isn't it obvious? What else to put one's spirits out than not only killing one very likeable main character, but then having his best friend cry herself unto her death.

im not even going to bother finishing SaiKano if it ends like this Anime hyper

I heard Saikano is really sad (to a point where it's unnecessary) but haven't seen it yet. Is it just me or are you picking all of the saddest animes possible? Bad luck or you secretly like them? Perhaps you should see Now and Then, Here and There just for kicks....
Seriously it seems like you're watching like the saddest animes that are available, though... >.>

Vortextk you might want to use the spoiler html in your post.
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Azathrael



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 745
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:29 am Reply with quote
Fui wrote:
Azathrael wrote:
that theme was just so indicative of how bad Christianity really is. It's a shitty religion that requires endless self-sacrifice, to the point where your own life means nothing since "it was created by God, God is omniscient and omnipotent, and he will reward you with Heaven in the afterlife". Like I really care about going to heaven, when I have to suffer my entire life during my time on earth.


Actually, it always occurred to me that it would be the other way around. If you consider the length of one's life (0-100 years) and the length of eternity (one's life x 10gabillionzillionx1930^347832+foreverxinfinity) then suffering one's life can hardly be called a fair trade/sacrifice. That's another thing that bugs me; say if a child died 2 days after childbirth (and was thus never a Christian) would it go to hell because it was never a Christian? Or would it go to Heaven by default. Either way is really unfair, because I'd gladly die in 2 days to live happily in "heaven" for eternity, and it would be pretty messed if a little baby had no choice and was sent to hell.


I don't mean to turn this into a religious discussion, because I was trying to convey how much more tragic the ending of Chrno Crusade is due to its affinity with Christianity and its philosophy on how to live life.

What you're saying already assumes that there is a God and a Heaven. How would you like to life your life self-sacrificing only to find out that there is no Heaven? No matter how much you "believe", what's not there won't be there. Are you willing to risk the one and only life you have for something 50/50 of eternity? Same case with Rosette. She's a Christian (or was she Catholic?), she believes in God, but you know that she spoiler[doesn't want to die, even if she does believe she's going to Heaven, because it's her one and only life that she had to end early.]
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Fui



Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 339
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:04 am Reply with quote
Azathrael I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing for here. It seems as if you're assuming I believe in Christianity and am posing an argument for it, which is not the case at all. I was just posing a question about a problem I see in Christianity's way of determining who or who doesn't get into heaven (which CyberViper did a great job in trying to explain, thanks).

Deltakiral wrote:
Fui wrote:
Actually, it always occurred to me that it would be the other way around. If you consider the length of one's life (0-100 years) and the length of eternity (one's life x 10gabillionzillionx1930^347832+foreverxinfinity) then suffering one's life can hardly be called a fair trade/sacrifice. That's another thing that bugs me; say if a child died 2 days after childbirth (and was thus never a Christian) would it go to hell because it was never a Christian? Or would it go to Heaven by default. Either way is really unfair, because I'd gladly die in 2 days to live happily in "heaven" for eternity, and it would be pretty messed if a little baby had no choice and was sent to hell.
What you are talking about is know as Pascal Wager, many of you know pascal for being the math guy, but he was a famous philiopher who invented the idea of looking at the risk of believeing and not. Such there was 4 path to one life, first you believe (God) and he is real, (according with pascal wager) you gain heaven and all it is glory. If you believe and he doesn't exist Pascal believed that this your life was then fill with good deeds, and you stay out of unmoral things. If you don't believe and he is real you have lost everything, where as if you don't believe and he is not real, you have gain a life filled with doing things that are unmoral to the laws of man.
Till next time,

Delta Kiral

There's really no connection between what I said and the Pascal Wager idea here.
However, this "Pascal Wager" idea uncannily reminds me of something Descartes said (I think it was Descartes, the father of either the theory of induction or deduction...I forgot since I learned it in AP Euro 6 years ago). Descartes also looked into the risk of believing or not, but in a slightly different way. First, he said that if you don't believe and there is a God/Heaven, you're screwed since you never believed (and if there isn't then nothing happens). But if you do believe, and there is a God/Heaven, then you will go to heaven (and if there isn't then nothing happens). So his conclusion was to believe (so long as it didn't hurt/affect his life) since either way, he either wins or gains nothing. Just something interesting in response to what you stated, although I don't think what you stated has anything to do with my previous response. For me though, I would be lying to myself if I believe in God because of my beliefs in biology so I think that way of thinking only applies on a theoretical level and kind of defies the basic idea of "truly believing." (You're only thinking of which way you'll get the best scenario, not thinking about which is the true/right way). Hah, I found a fundamental flaw in a great thinker's reasoning.
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