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Freezing (TV) (both seasons).


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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23624
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:51 pm Reply with quote
Episode 6

Well, I really hated that. I simply don't buy the dynamic. I don't buy that Satelli would fall back into her old persona that easily. I hate being made to feel riled up like this just to get some ridiculously dragged out pay-off (yes, even in this so called "condensed" form, the catharsis is being delayed longer than I like) - which BETTER end with Satelli's Volt weapon jammed firmly up Luis's ass.

This arc really cannot end soon enough for me.
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leatherhead333



Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 1187
Location: Kansas
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:53 pm Reply with quote
Here is the thing. I really feel like the anime should have taken some liberties and at least shown a bit more of spoiler[Luis's nicer side that he somewhat displayed in the manga].

I mean he's had this messed up personality since he was a little kid. And his parents apparently felt it was ok for him to be molesting, beating and basically doing anything else to Satellizer because they didn't think of her as part of the family. I'm not really defending Luis's actions because he's still at fault here but i'd say he turned out to be such a spoiled brat because he's always been able to get what he wants his whole life and no one has stepped up to tell him that he is wrong. Considering his families power it's not like anyone would be smart to oppose his wishes anyway. And that hasn't change even now considering Holy spoiler[is the top 3rd year at Genetics] and he was able to get her so easily.

I'd say that he still has the mindset of a child as he is still possessive, spoiled and flips out when people don't do what he wants. Dude might needs some theory and maybe some time in the slammer but i don't think the death penalty would be appropriate as much as some people seem to think it would be. (if the justice system went on morals alone we'd be in pretty bad shape if you ask me).
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:24 pm Reply with quote
leatherhead333 wrote:
Here is the thing. I really feel like the anime should have taken some liberties and at least shown a bit more of spoiler[Luis's nicer side that he somewhat displayed in the manga].

That might what the anime production is waiting for in the following episode spoiler[Holy's perspective of Luis, she outright loves the guy regardless of what she does or doesn't know of his past, in turn Holy has a huge grudge against Satellizer because Satellizer still occupies Luis' thoughts ]
But as far as Satellizer is concerned, Luis is a sly monster than worst that any person she has met in her life, and that is partial to the reason why he has a distorted sounding voice in the appropriate scenes is that the audience is getting a glimpse on how she sees him.
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Yttrbio
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Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:50 pm Reply with quote
"Our bond is so strong that I can't even notice the incredibly obvious visible signs that she is terrified by this situation!" Male Protagonist.
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getchman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:53 pm Reply with quote
that didn't bother me nearly as much at Violet being completely oblivious to the situation as well, when she was the one that spoiler[found Louis sexually abusing Satella in the first place ]
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:09 pm Reply with quote
Yttrbio wrote:
"Our bond is so strong that I can't even notice the incredibly obvious visible signs that she is terrified by this situation!" Male Protagonist.

Within the context of how the events are presented in the anime, being oblivious that Satellizer's brother is a complete creep is relatively understandable up till the blatant reveal.spoiler[If anything Violet would be one to be blamed in this situation as she KNOWS Luis is a creep and doesn't bother to warn Kazuya that "maybe you should watch over Satellizer during your stay", the only other way to interpret Violet's actions is that she has conformed to her families will and shouldn't "bring out the garbage" to strangers let alone bring up such information to the son of a rival rich family. ]
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Yttrbio
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:12 pm Reply with quote
The context we have from the anime is she rolls in, sees her brother, starts shaking and has her eyes wider than anime eyes. "Nope, nothing to see here." Regardless of whether he picks up on the details, the fact that he senses nothing from her attitude change is pretty silly if we're supposed to buy that they have any kind of meaningful relationship.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:27 am Reply with quote
I agree with you, Yttrbio. The whole exercise is simply a miserable demonstration in ham-fisted emotional manipulation. That's one of the differences between good writing and bad. In good writing, you go with the flow and feel part of the story. The emotions you feel spring up naturally. In bad writing, you are painfully aware of the writers saying, "hey, you're really hate this guy, right, right??? Here we are, making sure you really hate this guy. Don't you just hate this guy?"
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getchman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:30 am Reply with quote
I'm thinking Luis could give Noboyuki Sugou a run for his money.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:35 am Reply with quote
If we want to get blunt about it, the issue isn't Luis, the issue is the original Manwha writer creating the molestation as backstory in the first place.
This Brother arc had to be created to "sweep the backstory under the rug" because unless you are a great writer before trying to use such a concept as a backstory it simply is going to fall into the "bad writing" category (and less face it, this is a tale about big titty girls that fight monsters).
The arc set up feels poor because the source writing was also as half hearted as the forced concept was in the first place, at the very least it can be said that the anime adaptation is trying to roll with the source material's mess and present the "polished turd" version of the arc by giving it some semblance of meaning in the overall story because as many of us have said before this arc in the original manwha made even LESS sense and the arc existed specifically to sweep this part of Sattellizer's backstory under the rug so the narrative could continue.

[EDIT: Removed unneeded spoiler tags. And putting a whole post in spoiler tags is never a good idea, as that way people don't have any idea what the spoiler concerns. - Key]
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:10 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
I agree with you, Yttrbio. The whole exercise is simply a miserable demonstration in ham-fisted emotional manipulation. That's one of the differences between good writing and bad. In good writing, you go with the flow and feel part of the story. The emotions you feel spring up naturally. In bad writing, you are painfully aware of the writers saying, "hey, you're really hate this guy, right, right??? Here we are, making sure you really hate this guy. Don't you just hate this guy?"

What's so "miserable" about it? Ham-fisted I'll give you, as it was definitely not subtle, but I didn't see it as bad writing. The whole molestation issue (and I don't think that needs to be spoiler-tagged because anyone who watched the first season knows about it) is at the core of who Satellizer is as a person and why she is "untouchable." I don't think the issue can even be fairly accused of being overplayed, as people IRL are deeply scarred for decades by things like this. What we're seeing from Louis in this episode is classic serial molester behavior: using psychological pressure, manipulation, and coercion to gain power over a victim. Breaking free of that kind of manipulation and degradation is, by all accounts, quite difficult without outside help; that Satellizer was still susceptible to it despite how strong she's become is hardly unrealistic given numerous real-world cases.

Now, I'll grant you that the whole business with the chains was a bit much, but beyond that, where's the bad writing?
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:32 pm Reply with quote
The bad writing stems from the unconvincing way the situation has been portrayed. Sure, in real life, you can imagine that someone who has been victimized in that way might revert. But Freezing is not real life. It beggars belief that a character like Satelli who has gone through painful physical battles against other Pandoras and against Novas suddenly becomes a virtually catatonic puppet without even a hint of strength or resolve.

The writers were more interested in cheesily pouring on the manipulation, making sure that we, the viewers, who are used to seeing Satelli be tough are nice and outraged by the humiliating nature of her victimization. It's already clear that what's going to snap her out of her victimhood won't be any inner strength or self-realization - spoiler[it will be a reaction to the physical threat against her Limiter].

I get the same exploitative vibe from the scenes where Luis is dominating Satelli that I do from many of the fight scenes in Wanna Be the World's Strongest. I don't feel I'm watching characters acting and reacting in ways that are true or organic to the story being told - I feel like I'm watching pieces being pushed around on a chessboard all with the express purpose of prodding me into a rage so that I can feel satisfied when Luis receives his inevitable comeuppance. On a certain crude emotional level that strategy works, but it's still bad writing.

If it was good writing I wouldn't be thinking in those terms at all, I'd be absorbed in just thinking, "that Luis is an asshole!" instead of being so aware of the strings being pulled.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:40 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
It beggars belief that a character like Satelli who has gone through painful physical battles against other Pandoras and against Novas suddenly becomes a virtually catatonic puppet without even a hint of strength or resolve.

So because Satellizer is a fictional character, she isn't allowed to have what is displayed to be a blatant form of what can be described as post traumatic stress.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:56 pm Reply with quote
FenixFiesta wrote:
Quote:
It beggars belief that a character like Satelli who has gone through painful physical battles against other Pandoras and against Novas suddenly becomes a virtually catatonic puppet without even a hint of strength or resolve.

So because Satellizer is a fictional character, she isn't allowed to have what is displayed to be a blatant form of what can be described as post traumatic stress.


Can you please point out where I said that because Satelli is a fictional character she isn't allowed to display something like PTSD? What I said was that, within the context of what we have seen of Satelli so far, her instant reversion to a semi-catatonic puppet didn't strike me as credible. That's fine if you feel differently, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't misconstrue my meaning.

Personally, I would have found it far more believable if she had unwittingly killed him in a moment of panic.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 2581
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:13 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
What I said was that, within the context of what we have seen of Satelli so far, her instant reversion to a semi-catatonic puppet didn't strike me as credible.

I dunno, the backstory presentation that Satellizer had emotional issues from Season 1?
There are many writing issue with regards to the Brother arc, but a person suddenly "shutting down" from PTS when there is a blatant trigger in the room is more than feasible even if it is a "strong person" suddenly flashing back to that moment of despair.

This arc has issues, however that part isn't one of the weaknesses.
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