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Anime fight scenes


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Kin7cato



Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:37 pm Reply with quote
During a majority of Anime fight scenes I noticed a huge trend.
In the middle of a fight the main character and the opponent briefly battle for a short while.

Then all of a sudden the two characters come to a halt and start talking for literally two to ten minutes. Instead of a fight scene it becomes a dialouge battle.

This is just my opinion but I think its very stupid. If someone is really trying to kill or hurt you they are not going to sit and speak to you. They are going to use all of their power to murder you. As quickly and efficiently as possible.

Another trend I dislike in anime is during the middle of a fight it switches to another character or characters who are giving their opinions on the outcome of the fight. And their opinions on the fight takes about three or more minutes to explain who's going to win and why.

I really think this is dumb. I feel as though I have been cheated from a potentially good fight with sometimes a pointless dialouge. Its as if the artists said were tired can we rest a little? And the director says sure just make the character's mouths move so we dont have to animate the fight.
And we'll save money too.

This happens in a lot of animes. Even good ones. I'll name a few.

Rurouni Kenshin[TV] , DragonBall Z, Yu Yu Hakashu, Inuyasha,
Naruto, Street Fighter 2 V, 3x3 eyes, Sailor Moon, Gundam Wing
Trigun, Fatal Fury,etc there is a lot more.

What do you think about this?
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NyuuChan



Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:03 pm Reply with quote
Kin7cato wrote:
During a majority of Anime fight scenes I noticed a huge trend.
In the middle of a fight the main character and the opponent briefly battle for a short while.

Then all of a sudden the two characters come to a halt and start talking for literally two to ten minutes. Instead of a fight scene it becomes a dialouge battle.

This is just my opinion but I think its very stupid. If someone is really trying to kill or hurt you they are not going to sit and speak to you. They are going to use all of their power to murder you. As quickly and efficiently as possible.

Another trend I dislike in anime is during the middle of a fight it switches to another character or characters who are giving their opinions on the outcome of the fight. And their opinions on the fight takes about three or more minutes to explain who's going to win and why.

I really think this is dumb. I feel as though I have been cheated from a potentially good fight with sometimes a pointless dialouge. Its as if the artists said were tired can we rest a little? And the director says sure just make the character's mouths move so we don't have to animate the fight.
And we'll save money too.

This happens in a lot of animes. Even good ones. I'll name a few.

Rurouni Kenshin[TV] , DragonBall Z, Yu Yu Hakashu, Inuyasha,
Naruto, Street Fighter 2 V, 3x3 eyes, Sailor Moon, Gundam Wing
Trigun, Fatal Fury,etc there is a lot more.

What do you think about this?


the talking between the two combatants usually fleshes out the reasons they are fighting. I personally like it, but thats just me. And side characters judging the outcome can be sometimes funny.
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Luminal



Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 179
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:13 pm Reply with quote
Kin7cato wrote:
During a majority of Anime fight scenes I noticed a huge trend.
In the middle of a fight the main character and the opponent briefly battle for a short while.

Then all of a sudden the two characters come to a halt and start talking for literally two to ten minutes. Instead of a fight scene it becomes a dialouge battle.

This is just my opinion but I think its very stupid. If someone is really trying to kill or hurt you they are not going to sit and speak to you. They are going to use all of their power to murder you. As quickly and efficiently as possible.

Another trend I dislike in anime is during the middle of a fight it switches to another character or characters who are giving their opinions on the outcome of the fight. And their opinions on the fight takes about three or more minutes to explain who's going to win and why.

I really think this is dumb. I feel as though I have been cheated from a potentially good fight with sometimes a pointless dialouge. Its as if the artists said were tired can we rest a little? And the director says sure just make the character's mouths move so we don't have to animate the fight.
And we'll save money too.

This happens in a lot of animes. Even good ones. I'll name a few.

Rurouni Kenshin[TV] , DragonBall Z, Yu Yu Hakashu, Inuyasha,
Naruto, Street Fighter 2 V, 3x3 eyes, Sailor Moon, Gundam Wing
Trigun, Fatal Fury,etc there is a lot more.

What do you think about this?


Actually I think it complements the anime and makes it even better. It is better to receive an explanation of how the main character defeated the bad guy than to just see it (body language is quite limited in anime) and wonder about it for ever.

Also remember that in most of stories the characters don't just want to defeat their foes in combat. Sometimes they want to prove they are better, prove they are doing the right thing, prove they are going to win, etc. Sometimes they don't want to fight and they hope they are able to make their opponent come to his senses. In order to accomplish these goals it is necessary to exchange a couple of sentences.

But this concept is not new, it is probably about 30 centuries old. In the Illiad, the warriors on each side knew not only the names of the warriors on the other side, but they also knew their entire family trees! And before, during and after the fights they would stop and give a lengthy speech about why they are better, why they are going to win this fight, even what they are going to do after they win the fight.

It is probably a much more romantic and lively way to remember a great fight and it works for me.

Of course, if there is too much of this it just becomes annoying, like in the fight between spoiler[ Sakura and Ino, with 40 minutes of flashbacks about how they used to arrange flowers together ] in Naruto. That was just plain ridiculous and in that case you are right.

Luminal
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Azathrael



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 745
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:32 pm Reply with quote
It's a cultural difference. Samurai had much more honor than shooting someone in the back from half a mile away so they really didn't fight unless they had a reason to. It's not too far fetched to say that they have some kind of "small talk" before or during a fight to justify their reasons for fighting each other. Of course, I am talking about the more dignified Samurai who didn't pillage and rape.

It's therefore more correct to call it a tradition than a trend. It's better than American cartoons where the "good guy" fights the "bad guy" for absolutely no reason at all other than the "bad guy" is simply "pure evil".

Some of those "small talk" moments made some of the greatest anime. It personalizes the fight because you know each side's history and reasons for fighting than to simply watch two people go at it so the audience gets a good fight scene. Naruto is a great example of this - I especially enjoyed Neji and Gaara's battles because of each of their history.
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Kin7cato



Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:37 pm Reply with quote
Luminal I see the point youre coming from. Your into Romanticism were people express themselves articulately about their plans and actions. And their reason for their actions.
It seems you like heroism and fairness. And imagination Thats cool.

Me on the other hand I am more of a realist. I like characters that are deep, realistic and three dimensional. People with strengths but yet short comings and problems. That are very believable.

Like I said if some one is out to truly murder you they are not going to hear you out or wait for an explanation. Because Human beings are not rational they are very impulsive and emotional beings. Similar to wars in the past decade. The People in the wars were ruthless. There was little poetic speech if any. It was brutaly real. There is little if any mercy.
Selfishness and ruthlessness out weighed poetic speech. Talk became unimportant. As they say actions speak louder than words.

I guess thats just the diffenrence between us. Your more of a Romanticist and i am more of a Realist.


Last edited by Kin7cato on Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bl00dHoUnD



Joined: 23 Oct 2005
Posts: 95
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:39 pm Reply with quote
It doesn't happen in ScryED, Samurai Champloo, or Mai HiME, so I love their fighting scenes - short, sweet, to the point, and well done. The other fighting scenes are fine, but they detract from a powerful storyline, in my opinion.
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Lapsus



Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Riga, Latvia
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:58 pm Reply with quote
Aw, why didn't You mention Bleach as well, Kin7cato? Cool

I got this thrown in my face by a friend whom i showed my favorite parts of Anime: Why are thay standing sill and blubbering stuff instead of kicking each others a*s? I got mad at first, because I think this trend of "fight of opinions" is much more.. intellectual. Smile As Luminal explained:

Quote:
Actually I think it complements the anime and makes it even better. It is better to receive an explanation of how the main character defeated the bad guy than to just see it (body language is quite limited in anime) and wonder about it for ever.

Also remember that in most of stories the characters don't just want to defeat their foes in combat. Sometimes they want to prove they are better, prove they are doing the right thing, prove they are going to win, etc. Sometimes they don't want to fight and they hope they are able to make their opponent come to his senses. In order to accomplish these goals it is necessary to exchange a couple of sentences.

But this concept is not new, it is probably about 30 centuries old. In the Illiad, the warriors on each side knew not only the names of the warriors on the other side, but they also knew their entire family trees! And before, during and after the fights they would stop and give a lengthy speech about why they are better, why they are going to win this fight, even what they are going to do after they win the fight.

It is probably a much more romantic and lively way to remember a great fight and it works for me.

Of course, if there is too much of this it just becomes annoying, like in the fight between spoiler[ Sakura and Ino, with 40 minutes of flashbacks about how they used to arrange flowers together ] in Naruto. That was just plain ridiculous and in that case you are right.


So yeah, what we see in anime isnt just plain fight with no reason and background - mostly the actons of characters are determined by their personalities, side they are on and so forth, whatever the plot offers.
I think that explaining things during a relative standstill is a good manner, because it would be hard to keep track of a fight and listen to what characters have to say at the sime time.

I liked how it was presented in Bleach - people stood still and talked because fighting is *hard* and they needed to rest a bit or they were injured and moving would cause pain, nobody comented the fight excessively - the participants did the job.

Then again.. standstill is probably a part of animators being humans and having "laze" to draw much and much of frames just to fill the gaps - more easily they create a loop of the same frame and try to change the centration of it just to imitate movement while the actual image ramains static. But I must admit - if all and every second of an anime would be filled with motion and unfollowable action, it would become a mess and loose a thing called "pace". Dont you like when an ocean or mountains are shown? (OK, this isnt about fight scenes).

Oh, and I dont agree to the opinion of anime lacking body language.. quite the opposite - in anime it is possible to draw exacly what and where it has to be, thus turning viewers attention to it. All the eye-looks, nods, head turns, backdraws and so forth. I think that anime IS capable of showing body movements, but it kinda.. doesnt do it Laughing

I like anime characters standing still and attacking each other mentally - it substitutes so hated violence and adds some sort of sarcastic/ideological fun to it. But I hope the fight scenes get a bit "filled" in time. P.S. Kin7cato, maybe there IS a super-action fighting anime with no standstills out there waiting.. maybe not.. Rolling Eyes
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dark_hand



Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:01 pm Reply with quote
kincato, just in half a day you already started three threads that talk about the flaws in most animes in general. well, here's a fact that you have left forgotten. the makers of anime are humans just like the rest of us and true they might be blessed with talents but don't expect their works to be divine and godly.
every anime will have a few things that are just bad where everyone would wonder what were those japanese thinking. just bear with it.
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Vortextk



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 892
Location: Orlando, Fl
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:03 pm Reply with quote
It feels like the more Shounen-esque an anime is, the more it has of this.

This is the reason why I love Ghost in the Shell so much. Awesome story, characters..well, everything. Whenever you saw a gun fight or a fist fight, it started, it happened, it ended. I love my Naruto and Bleach etc, but sometimes I just like to see a "fight".
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Azathrael



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 745
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:18 pm Reply with quote
Vortextk wrote:
It feels like the more Shounen-esque an anime is, the more it has of this.

This is the reason why I love Ghost in the Shell so much. Awesome story, characters..well, everything. Whenever you saw a gun fight or a fist fight, it started, it happened, it ended. I love my Naruto and Bleach etc, but sometimes I just like to see a "fight".


DBZ is just perfect for you. All they do is fight fight and fight when it's not some comedy scene. Pretty much the same for Hellsing and Berserk. Ghost in the Shell didn't need any talk in-between because it was all done beforehand. It's an example of a different organization of sequences of the same thing.

dark_hand wrote:
kincato, just in half a day you already started three threads that talk about the flaws in most animes in general. well, here's a fact that you have left forgotten. the makers of anime are humans just like the rest of us and true they might be blessed with talents but don't expect their works to be divine and godly.


How could anyone forget that!? -_-; Shocked
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Vortextk



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 892
Location: Orlando, Fl
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:31 pm Reply with quote
Yeah I liked DBZ as well, thought I haven't watched it for awhile. And for GiTS, they might have had conversations before/after, but the fights weren't like Naruto "Oh, it's a tournament with people I know, let's go fight!" They weren't these pre-planned events with a bunch of people that know eachother. They had no reason to talk in the middle and obviously, GiTS, while being sci-fi, is way more realistic than Naruto. And yeah I liked Hellsing and Berserk as well. Though Berserk..anyone that's seen it knows what problems I have with the anime, heh.

DBZ definitely had longer fight scenes than say Naruto, but it did have it's share of talking during fights as well. How long DID it take for Namek to blow up when Frieza said they only had 5 more minutes?
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x_Hisoka_x



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 260
Location: Formerly: Anime_Newcomer
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:40 pm Reply with quote
dark_hand wrote:
kincato, just in half a day you already started three threads that talk about the flaws in most animes in general. well, here's a fact that you have left forgotten. the makers of anime are humans just like the rest of us and true they might be blessed with talents but don't expect their works to be divine and godly.
every anime will have a few things that are just bad where everyone would wonder what were those japanese thinking. just bear with it.



I agree. Like the old saying goes, "If you've got nothing good to say then don't say anything." or something like that.
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Luminal



Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 179
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:42 pm Reply with quote
Vortextk wrote:

DBZ definitely had longer fight scenes than say Naruto, but it did have it's share of talking during fights as well. How long DID it take for Namek to blow up when Frieza said they only had 5 more minutes?


Are you sure about that? Didn't the 3rd hokage spoiler[remain in the same position with a sword through his stomach for 3 entire episodes? And that was just the sword-in-stomach scene, the fight is much longer than that. ].

Luminal


Last edited by Luminal on Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Vortextk



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 892
Location: Orlando, Fl
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:43 pm Reply with quote
Anime newcomer..I hope you like totalitarian governments where you work 14 hours a day, live a crappy life and have no rights whatsoever. His questions may come out wrong or be annoying, but he can and should ask them if he really wants to. He just might not like the answers =P
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Vortextk



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 892
Location: Orlando, Fl
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:46 pm Reply with quote
Fix your spoilers Luminal =P and I was replying about ACTUAL fight scenes. Like, you'll see longer sequences of kicking, punching, chi blasts and powering up in DBZ than you will in Naruto.

When Azathrael said "DBZ is just perfect for you. All they do is fight fight and fight when it's not some comedy scene." That's what I was talking about. Naruto has very few long action scenes. Actual action, not just in the middle of a fight sitting around.

spoiler[And I'm pretty sure it was like 5 episodes long =P]

Er double post..wasn't there one inbetween these two?..
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