Forum - View topicAnime fight scenes
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Kin7cato
Posts: 99 |
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I haven't seen Bleach so i can't comment on it. Sorry ,Lapsus I should have explained myself more clearly. I don't hate plot or dialogue. Plot and dialogue is what drives the entire story.
I just dislike the moments the creators place it in. For example when the two opponents meet its okay if they exchange dialouge. But when its a half an hour of straight talking it becomes pretty tedious. There are better strategies to intergrate the background of the characters into a fight. Like before they approach each other in battle. They should give the backstory for the characters and their reasons for fighting before the fight begins. But they should not do this in the middle of a fight. I dislike the spacing of the events it feels unbalanced. It would be much better to set up the story before the opponets approach each other. Then the opponents meet face to face exchange some dialouge. Intelligent dialogue. not like "I am gonna crush you!" or " I will kill you with my special attack!" Why would you tell this to your opponent? Then the fight should commence. The fight should have a good amount of animation and action. Not all action but a balance like I am demonstrating. Not all loose and flowly like Lapsus describes. Halfway through the fight flashbacks and more dialouge should occur. But it should not be ten more minutes before the fighting starts again. Who in the hell is going to sit there and listen to someone talk when they gain the oppurtunity to strike down their opponent. Keep in mind there has to be a balance. The dialogue should not be too long. The fight continues on for about five minutes and then ends. That is what should be done. Not dialogue that lasts for an entire episode at the beginning or middle of the fight. This is not divine dark hand and is quite possible to accomplish. |
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Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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You have a good point, and I somewhat agree with you, but I still think Kin7cato's complaint about long, expository speeches in the middle of fight scenes is valid. It's precisely the reason I tend to avoid action-oriented anime titles. It IS good to know the underlying causes for a fight, just as it's good to know a character's motivation for any given action; the more we understand about the character and the way s/he thinks, after all, the more we connect with them. However, halting all the build-up and action of a sequence to bluntly deliver this information to an opponent completely kills pacing and is a sign of bad storytelling. If the writer/director of an anime has any sense of tact or dramatic insight at all, he should be able to convey a thought or emotion at a critical moment without being forced to rely on dialogue. And I'm sorry, but the standard this-is-why-we're-fighting-blah-blah-blah battle dialogue feels SO forced. Even if a story is told realistically up to this point, I will immediately disconnect from the entire experience when the fight speeches show up. This IS a problem that plagues a lot of action anime, and even though the intention is good, the execution is horrible.
Again, you make a very good point. But writing has changed since the Iliad; it's been re-invented time and time again, and such archaic storytelling isn't effective for motion picture. Remember again, that in Iliad, it is mostly dialogue that moves the story along. In motion picture, and especially animation, it is unwise (as I said earlier) to rely so heavily on words when it will unquestionably clash with visuals. In animation, visual language is more important than anything. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7983 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Well, when you fight you're physically active and that makes you tired and being tired makes you slower. I think if it were me battling somebody for a half hour or so with martial-arts, I wouldn't be complaining at all. I'd be resting, enjoying the downtime while he or she spouts their personally philosophy, motives and life story.
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bahamut623
 Posts: 1463 |
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[quote="Kin7cato"]
Rurouni Kenshin[TV] , DragonBall Z, Yu Yu Hakashu, Inuyasha, Naruto, Street Fighter 2 V, 3x3 eyes, Sailor Moon, Gundam Wing Trigun, Fatal Fury,etc there is a lot more. What do you think about this?[/quote Notice, most of the series you mentioned are based off shonen manga. It's not the fault of the animators, but rather it's just a trend that's common in alot of manga. during big fights, there will always be someone on the sidelines, or even the fighters themselves, explaining what their moves are or how they did them after having performed them. In some series that fights get a little complex(like in something like Naruto, they use who know's how many jutsus in one fight, and then explain what they just did too you, unless you're 100% proficient in the fighting styles of the Naruto universe,  ), so a sort of "play by play" is needed. And yea, sometimes the fighters just wanna rest or be chivalrous.
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milcor1
 Posts: 337 |
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Welcome to anime, where everything possible is done to squeeze out as many seconds as they can. 90% of licensed anime will have this. Yes, it is mind-numbingly rediculous but sadly it's not going away anytime soon.
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Kin7cato
Posts: 99 |
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Bahamut the problem is that in Naruto they display the secrets at the wrong time during the fight. Making the fight more tedious and less entertaining. With 3 episodes showing a character siting around talking or dying. Naruto's timing and organization for dialogue is way over the top. And inappropriate. They really try to strecth it out.
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bahamut623
Posts: 1463 |
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Yeah, I know what you mean, but that's just how alot of manga fights tend to work :\. I'm sure its present in non manga based anime too, but not too such an extreme extent, for example: Samurai Champloo, the fights usually are fast paced without being interrupted by talking, most of the time, anyway. |
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NyuuChan
 Posts: 575 |
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Also, Dialouge before a fight (assuming it's mid-end series and important) can add drama to the fight, and during to build up more suspense...
however that one naruto (someone mentioned it earlier)...jesus...i don't think the talking was LONG enough! 
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dark_hand
Posts: 42 Location: Canada |
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kincato, when i read your description about how a fighting scene should be you really have put too much expectation on animes. animes is still inferior to hollywood in terms of planning and technical stuff which is logical considering the difference in the amount of money spent for production. so don't expect the fighting to be smooth and fast-paced except for some high-budget anime movies.
the fact that the characters talk a lot during fighting is just to drag the episodes so that they can get longer series with less effort and so gain more money. however, what if they are not talking nonsense but the dialogue is well thought out and helpful for the character development. i found this to be the case in most animes in which it builds my emotion and hype me up. however, if you are talking about dragon ball z, that series is already bad in the first place so unless somebody is very new to anime watching it, nobody else can enjoy it. |
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JoshuaStChristopher
 Posts: 351 |
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I think it comes from lazy animators/low budgets. It seems that more often anime on larger budgets don't do that.
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NyuuChan
Posts: 575 |
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i remember someone earlier mentioning "non stop longer action scenes" in DBZ earlier on, and that's partially true, however some fights had large, LOOOOONG pauses in them. Like, when Goku was charging the spirit ball for three+ episodes just talking to freeza (i believe thats how it went, i haven't seen in a year or so)
yeah that was kinda boring. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I can agree with Kin7cato, I watch all kinds of anime, and there is definetly a lot of dialogue in battle scenes. I think the worst is Yu-Gi-Oh! for talking, though.
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camelot187757
 Posts: 426 Location: The Nacirema Dream (17 and counting Asuka) |
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Sometimes its necessary to hype the fight depending on the combat styles. For example DBZ is a lot of heya-heya-heya super fighting so a break is appreciated at times. Same goes for a lot of the anime you listed. However when its more of a street fighting combat(not street fighter mind ya) then I completely agree with you because then it just ruins the vibe and the intensity of the fight. As far as people talking, if its a shonen anime then yea they got to update the fight as it goes on so its kind of expected. |
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NyuuChan
Posts: 575 |
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if you mean the constant gibber-gabber between the two combatants (duelists), thats not technically fighting in the traditional sense. What i mean is, they're commanding the mosters to attack on turn, it's like animated poker; they have to explain what they're doing (which is one of my fav. parts of the show  )
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Kin7cato
Posts: 99 |
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Dark Hand its not too difficult to make a good fight scene.
You make it out to be much harder than it seems. I feel you over exaggerate. What I don't understand is how a show like Boondocks actually has better fight scenes and animation. {for example episode 12} Then practically all of the anime I mentioned earlier in my first post. What the hell is that about? The Boondocks is a freakin comedy! Its not even serious. [like some of the titles I mentioned in my first post.] Not only that but I think the show is its first or second season. This implies that it has limited funding. And it doesn't even come close to the budget of Inuyasha or Naruto. Let alone the popularity. And the fight scenes are that great. Surely something is wrong. The problem is that the fights needs better directors and artists who don't get lazy. And strive for perfection rather than saying "ah that looks all right." |
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