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NEWS: Article on Anime Bootlegs


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beelzebozo



Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 308
Location: Aurora, Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:04 am Reply with quote
Not sure exactly where to put this, in ANIME or RETAIL, but:

Anime Attraction - Westword

The article has a few mistakes, including making Walker look like he runs NDK, which he doesn't, he is "just" one of the Con Ops. And several of my quotes were cut short. They also didn't mention the other anime store in town (which I told them about), nor any quotes from another NDK staffer. The reporter brushed off my suggestion of getting ahold of the convention co-chairs.

I know what my impressions are of the article. What's your's?
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:15 am Reply with quote
Well.. I would rate it at somewhere around the middle of the pack for anime articles written by non anime specific sites that I've read in the past few months. It would be pretty informative for someone new to the world of bootlegs while not providing them with *that* much inaccurate information.

'Cyberpunk Samurai' WTF? Google is our friend.

I also wasn't aware that Hong Kong now comprises the entirety of Southeast Asia. I must not have gotten the memo about their recent conquests.

Article wrote:
He sees his bootlegging as a way to force the American companies that license and distribute anime to lower their prices, which are often too expensive for young fans.

I have to wonder how this made it in there. Portraying such an obvious BS line as something other then that big stinking pike that it is.

How about something like.. 'He sees his bootlegging as a way to maximize profit intake, by importing cheaply made and inferior products at low cost, thumbing his nose the American companies which have purchased legal distribution rights for the US and business owners the are running their business honestly, and happily pawning off these inferior items to young fans who often are not aware that what they are purchasing is not a legitmate US licensed copy.'

I guess I need to brush up on current IP law again. I would have thought that the sale and distribution of an item, without persmission of the copyright holder and designated distributor in an area where they have been granted exclusive rights to that title would be in violation of copyright law irregardless of where the product was produced. If it is clearly not an authorized copy of the title, I only see tracing back to the manufacturer as something that would need to be done if they wanted to get serious. He is in possession of the items, and selling them, he is the one clearly in violation of the law. That should also fall under the No Electronic Theft Act, which provides for criminal prosecution of such actions. Time to hit up Westlaw.
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beelzebozo



Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 308
Location: Aurora, Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:45 am Reply with quote
yeah, my take is that the reporter is too lenient toward the bootlegger. He didn't even mention the R1 rips. The article would have been much longer for all the information about bootlegs that I gave him.
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anime_man01



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 15
Location: the other side of the asylum on the hill..

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:54 am Reply with quote
you know, this is my first post..

that said, im on a laundry list of "missions" that combat piracy...

for 1 i was an avid buyer of online stuff..

i noticed that some bootlegs were pretty convincing, but there was still the cover issues, however i was still duped..


i thoroughlly sympathize with that dvd store owner..

on the other hand, is it improper to "obtain" a couple of episodes in order to preview a series and then dumping them???

if so then im guilty..

I've been burned too many times thus causing my caution..

i see that the industry does on a limited basis give out teasers, as a subscriber to anime magazines i have had the joy of receiving such..

its rather odd that japan has certain extradition alliances with the u.s., that so, why not charge the person that got the bootleg and then prosecute them??

if that happens the word will spread like wildfire to keep away..

you see, in most states you can be convicted of having stolen or un-authorized property just by merely posessing it..

im just preaching to the chior here but i from personal experience with my business have discovered that the more piracy the bigger prices...

is the inuyasha series a sign of the times??

c/n holds it "hostage" and releases it as they see fit and gather much needed revinue from commercials although the series is completely dubbed...

i personally know that japan is not a cheap place to live and as such, the anime companies must keep the food on the table just as much as we do, its not right to pirate for profit..

oh well, heres where i insert the "end of rant" statement...


thanks for hearing me out...


Last edited by anime_man01 on Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:20 am Reply with quote
beelzebozo wrote:
He didn't even mention the R1 rips. The article would have been much longer for all the information about bootlegs that I gave him.


Yeah, well I just noticed that it was Village Voice owned and hence a free paper. Can't expect those guys to put in too much effort or research.
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anime_man01



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 15
Location: the other side of the asylum on the hill..

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:32 am Reply with quote
we got a paper like that in my town...

until a "house cleaning" everything was lopsided...

unfortunately, due to small mind mentality everything must be read cautiously..

as to bootlegs, i am going through my stash later and am going to check em out...

that ough to be interesting to say the least..
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beelzebozo



Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 308
Location: Aurora, Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:41 am Reply with quote
anime_man01 wrote:
on the other hand, is it improper to "obtain" a couple of episodes in order to preview a series and then dumping them???

if so then im guilty..


Well, I'm sure this forum could go rounds about previewing a series, but I will say this: It is easily possible to "preview" a series without a pirate profitting from it.

If you want to be completely legal, find an anime shop that rents or go with the on-line rental services. Better to pay $3 and find out you didn't like a series, than pay $30.

anime_man01 wrote:
is the inuyasha series a sign of the times??

c/n holds it "hostage" and releases it as they see fit and gather much needed revinue from commercials although the series is completely dubbed...


Well, CN doesn't have it, Viz does. I'm sure that as part of the contract, CN wants to show the series first so people will watch rather than buy the DVDs. But, if you think about it, Japanese fans are in the same prediciment if the series is already in the can (not always the case, look at some early Lost Universe episodes).
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anime_man01



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 15
Location: the other side of the asylum on the hill..

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:07 pm Reply with quote
although i like to spend, i don't like to waste money..

i have previewed many a series well before its been licsensed...

why, same as above, i don't like to waste money..

now on the preview note, im a guy that likes all genras,shonen, shojou, hentai, cultural, etc.etc.etc....

there have been quite a few series that i didn't choose to get, now i normally get the majority of previewed series...

i personally believe thats a good approach...

there has been many times that I've gotten on some private, "first call lists" here where i live, as i do lots of business with the anime shops, im considered a "preferred customer"..

however, if a series is really popular, i have no problem being considerate and waiting as getting it elsewhere or at a later date is not an issue..

but thats all im gonna put out about previewing as you said, we could go on forever on the preview legitemacy and or issues arising out of such..

but one last thing, i never give out any info as to where i get the previews from because that falls under distribution of pirated material and thus id have no substance to my fight if i condoned such acts...

thanks for the input..
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Azumangaman



Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 256
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:40 pm Reply with quote
It's a shame people buy bootleg DVD's. Sure they may be tempting, but I would never get one. Are you a "real" anime fan if you support destroying the anime industry?

I for one, doubt it. Think about this: Anime is priced high. That's quite obvious, is it not? A big reason is lack of sales. Why do they lack sales? Because some other so-called "otaku" buy the same bootleg DVD for a lot less money.

Consider this: If bootleggs completley cease production, then people will buy the liscenced DVD's, causing MUCH higher sales volumes. Don't you think that they'd lower their prices then?

So for all you people out there, DON'T BUY BOOTLEGS!

-Azumangaman
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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5551
Location: Coon Rapids, MN

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:53 pm Reply with quote
Sadly people would probably just jump to fansubs if they really wanted to avoid the costs. The biggest problem with bootlegs isn't that people buy them to get them cheaper, it's that many times people don't even know they're buying a bootleg.
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Azumangaman



Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 256
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:09 pm Reply with quote
Keonyn wrote:
, it's that many times people don't even know they're buying a bootleg.


I totally agree. People should really be more aware of their surroundings.
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beelzebozo



Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 308
Location: Aurora, Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:14 pm Reply with quote
Keonyn wrote:
The biggest problem with bootlegs isn't that people buy them to get them cheaper, it's that many times people don't even know they're buying a bootleg.


That's what the big problem is. You can't get rid of bootlegs, that's just human greed. But what we can do is force them back into the shadows and alleyways and get them out of the retail shops were Ma & Pa Average can just walk up and buy them without thinking.

When that bootlegger was just a webshop, I didn't care that much because his access to the general public was limited. But when he opened his shop, people could walk right in and get instant gratification.
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RyoShin



Joined: 19 Jan 2002
Posts: 80
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:21 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Henderson fully admits that his stock of HK anime is made up of unlicensed copies, but he doesn't believe what he's doing is illegal, since the true copyright dispute is between Japan and the home country of the bootleg producer.


Because if you buy, say, jewelery that someone else stole, you should be able to keep that jewelery, because the problem is between the theif and the homeowner.

Idiot. It would be funny if someone robbed his store, took all his DVDs, and said it was a problem between him and Hong Kong.

Quote:
If, for example, he were selling a bootleg of a Hollywood film, then, yes, he concedes, it would clearly be a punishable offense. But for right now, Henderson claims he's operating in an international-copyright "gray area" and refuses to even utter the word "bootleg."


"Grey area" my ass. There are international treaties covering copyright and patents (which leads to the IP problem we have now,) including between America and Japan. Those are "bootlegs", full and simple.

Otherwise, you'd see small shops swiping up games that never make it across the ocean to the states and doing a crappy localizing job, because they'll be able to pick up some extra income through those who are interested.

I hope his store fails completely.

Of course, then you have to ask yourself how far you'd go to fight against this. "Vote with your dollar" is a big thing, but sometimes it hurts. In my hometown area of Iowa, there is one store that actually has anything for a "real" anime place. The import CDs and DVDs. However, from what I can tell, about half of the DVDs are bootlegs. All the CDs I've boughten have been legit. I can get regular anime from other places, like Best Buy, but they are the only place I can get anime CDs, wallscrolls, pocky, etc.

I haven't boughten a bootleg, but I still go in there every so often to browse. Part of me says to never go there again because of their bootlegging, and another part says it's okay, because it's the only such place in a rather large area.
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Mylene
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 2763
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:29 pm Reply with quote
Azumangaman wrote:
Keonyn wrote:
, it's that many times people don't even know they're buying a bootleg.


I totally agree. People should really be more aware of their surroundings.


There's really only so much you can do though. I purchased what I thought was legitimate Sailor Moon boxst from Amazon.com stores, only to find out as soon as I got it that it was bootlegged. Thankfully, I was able to persuade the seller to refund my money, then gave them a bad rating for selling bootlegs (yes, I should have reported them on the A to Z policy, but I was going through a hard time right then and didn't). I've noticed in the past month that the number of bootlegs have diminished, and people trying to sell bootlegs on Stores are actually selling them at the same price as a legits, I'm guessing to try to hide what they're doing. Apparently, there was a crackdown.

So many times, if a person has been out of the loop for awhile (I couldn't buy any anime for 3 years due to money issues--rented legitimate copies from a local video store instead) they might not realize what is bootlegged and what isn't. I'm a fairly seasoned anime fan, but I just didn't realize that those were bootlegs until they were at my door. But I did figure it out quickly (lack of a copyright symbol makes it oh so obvious) and knew to take care of the issue. But that's just because I'm a rabid supporter of the industry that's been around awhile. Anyone newer or less knowledgeable would have kept the bootlegs without realizing what had happened. And really, you can't put the blame anywhere but the sellers, at least in such a situation.

{First post. Hi, everyone!}
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DemonEyesLeo



Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 844
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:57 pm Reply with quote
This makes me sad that there's a guy, in my own home state even, that's openly selling bootlegs. The one thing that really gets to me is this:
Quote:
He sees his bootlegging as a way to force the American companies that license and distribute anime to lower their prices, which are often too expensive for young fans.

Here's the problem with this logic: say someone has just enough money for a legitmate DVD but is faced with the decision to either buy the legitmate copy or a bootleg at more than half the cost. If they choose to get the bootleg, then no money is sent back to the legitimate company and they must rely on another sale to make up for it. Now, if a large number of people do this on a regular basis then it makes it so the legitmate companies have to raise their prices to make sure they can break even and make a profit because there's less people who buy their legitimate product. What I'm trying to say is that he, Henderson, is, in an indirect way, the cause of the high prices because he's providing the bootlegs that deny money to the legitimate companies. Not to mention he's also giving money to the HK pirates. He may be a small cause, after all it's a small shop in one city, but it's still part of the cause, and he's basically contradicting himself.

I think that if everyone stopped buying bootlegs completely and bought the legitimate products then the companies wouldn't have to sell as many to make a profit and then they could afford to lower the prices.
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