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Jerseymilk
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 157
Location: Wouldn't YOU like to know.
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 Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:56 am |
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| GreatSaiyaman777 wrote: | | True it's aimed at kids, even in Japan who it's primarily marketed towards. However, it's average weekly viewership in Japan is about 10-13 million viewers, (percentage-wise based on populations, as good or better than Friends in America which I think was 20 million) and it includes many teenagers as well as older viewers. The show itself is pretty mature at times too, much moreso than shows like Pokemon or Kirby. |
Ah yes, and that's why Japan merchandise consisted of things like swimming pool eye drops to a child-sized "Super Power Desk".  You can justify it any way you want. At the end of the day it's a children's show. So is One Piece. There's nothing shameful in that. Just because something was originally for kids, doesn't mean it can't be good enough for people of all ages to enjoy it. |
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Joe Mello
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 1507
Location: Tekkoshocon
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:16 am |
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| icepick314 wrote: | | would anything bad happen if 4Kids is no more? |
There goes your best shot at anime on network TV. (CN and ABC family are cable and who knows what the new CW network will have.) The "usual anime distributors" and network TV execs normally don't see eye to eye. The exception seems to be Geneon with Viewtiful Joe but they didn't seem to do too much better.
| Nagisa wrote: | | People, can we please, for once, keep a thread about 4Kids constructive and not have it deteriorate into childish whining? |
I'd love to see this happen, but checking emotions at the door is what a message board does worst. But to be honest, if the licensing of PreCure really makes you want to kill yourself, you probably didn't have much of a life to begin with.
Don't sweat the small stuff. |
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Jerseymilk
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 157
Location: Wouldn't YOU like to know.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:27 am |
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| Kouji wrote: | | Thanks a lot for being hypocrites and refusing to release uncut Sailor Stars in the U.S. but allowing Pretty Cure to be screwed up. You're really making me respect you a whole lot, Toei. |
That's largely due to the fact that Toei wants Sailor Moon's reputation outside of Japan to remain largely a preschool girl type show. Kind of hard to convince companies and networks in other countries that, if your final season has sex changing Sailor Senshi. They could cover up the fact that Zoicite and Fish Eye were guys. They could rewrite it so that Michiru and Haruna were cousins and Haruna was just very "tomboyish". However, short of editing the majority of the series, they can't cover up three guys transforming into senshi with breasts, thigh-high boots and hot pants. |
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HitokiriShadow
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 4908
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:37 am |
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| Jerseymilk wrote: | | Kouji wrote: | | Thanks a lot for being hypocrites and refusing to release uncut Sailor Stars in the U.S. but allowing Pretty Cure to be screwed up. You're really making me respect you a whole lot, Toei. |
They could rewrite it so that Michiru and Haruna were cousins and Haruna was just very "tomboyish". |
Which basically just added incest the show. It was still very obvious that they were lovers.
Oh, and CN kept some nudity and a pantyshot (both curtesy of Chibi-Usa/Rini) in as well. |
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Crawly
Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:39 am |
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| Joe Mello wrote: | | icepick314 wrote: | | would anything bad happen if 4Kids is no more? |
There goes your best shot at anime on network TV. (CN and ABC family are cable and who knows what the new CW network will have.) The "usual anime distributors" and network TV execs normally don't see eye to eye. The exception seems to be Geneon with Viewtiful Joe but they didn't seem to do too much better. |
Except that the anime 4Kids puts on tv isn't anything 99% of anime fandom wants to watch. Not because they don't like the shows, but because of the edits. And knowing there will never be an unedited release just makes it that much worse. So, from my point of view, 4Kids type anime disappearing from tv is a good thing. Just let CN do their thing, and we'll be fine in the sense that unedited releases will be available, and we'll still pick up new fans.
And I've lost a lot of respect for Geneon over Viewtiful Joe. Releasing a series edited only... They will, however, gain back that respect if/when they release it unedited. |
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TakinawaTonfa
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:18 am |
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| Crawly wrote: | | TakinawaTonfa wrote: | | Y'know, with One Piece being a notoriously bad dub, is anyone gonna really bother getting into show from the start with the 4Kids brand on it? Because I really think theres alot more awareness today, than say, the time of the Yu-Gi-Oh hype about how 4Kids tends to treat their properties.... |
I disagree about the awareness part. The block may be called 4KidsTV, but the 7 year olds watching it don't really pay attention to who's producing the show or know 4Kids as anything more than a flash on the screen before the show starts. They just watch things because they catch their attention. Or tune out if the shows don't. And it's the 7 to 10 year old audience 4Kids is going after, both with the show and the merchandising.
As for OP, I ask only because I don't know. How does it rate on Cartoon Network? I know it doesn't do well on broadcast, but is the cable run making up for that, regardless of the demographic tuning in? |
Last I've heard, One Piece was actually doing alot better in the ratings on Toonami than on the 4kidsTV block. I think part of might have to do with the fact that it comes right after Naruto and before Bobobo (Naruto being the highest rated show on Toonami).
Of course, I've also heard that the overall ratings for the 4kidsTV are not very good at all. (Last time OP was on broadcast, it rated about a 0.4) |
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Jerseymilk
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 157
Location: Wouldn't YOU like to know.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:23 am |
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| HitokiriShadow wrote: | | Jerseymilk wrote: | | Kouji wrote: | | Thanks a lot for being hypocrites and refusing to release uncut Sailor Stars in the U.S. but allowing Pretty Cure to be screwed up. You're really making me respect you a whole lot, Toei. |
They could rewrite it so that Michiru and Haruna were cousins and Haruna was just very "tomboyish". |
Which basically just added incest the show. It was still very obvious that they were lovers. |
Hey I never said it was smart move or that it was well done, just that they could try and cover it up a lot more easily than the situation with the Sailor Starlights.  |
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Vantos
Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:37 am |
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I'm no industry insider, but at least I know this much: 4kids is in the entertainment business. In that type of business, you have to give people what they want, whether network exec or younger children. Clearly, if 4kids is still afloat, they are indeed giving people, namely kids (How much more obvious can it get?), what they want. We have to keep in mind that these shows are still children's shows despite their considerable crossover appeal. There will always be new generations of children who simply do not know or do not care about things like "the original." If they do hear about it, it would likely be little more than a slight curiosity --- they won't care as we care until they get older. I know I sound somewhat like Al Kahn in saying this, but it is a rational conclusion nonetheless.
While I still do not like the way 4kids handles anime, you have to understand that we are a minority, a drop in the bucket, a niche market. The general children's market has far more potential (in the form of mooching off of parents). Our dollars don't mean much because there isn't much of our dollars to begin with. |
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Kouji
Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 978
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:40 am |
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| Jerseymilk wrote: |
That's largely due to the fact that Toei wants Sailor Moon's reputation outside of Japan to remain largely a preschool girl type show. Kind of hard to convince companies and networks in other countries that, if your final season has sex changing Sailor Senshi. They could cover up the fact that Zoicite and Fish Eye were guys. They could rewrite it so that Michiru and Haruna were cousins and Haruna was just very "tomboyish". However, short of editing the majority of the series, they can't cover up three guys transforming into senshi with breasts, thigh-high boots and hot pants. |
That excuse might've worked ten years ago when Sailor Stars was first released in Japan, but I don't see how it still works now. It's been almost ten years since Sailor Moon debuted in the U.S. How many American Sailor Moon fans does Toei think are still preschool girls? I think most American Sailor Moon fans are old enough to watch Sailor Stars by now. Besides, if 4Kids can dub a children's anime like One Piece and make it acceptable for children's American television, surely it can't be that hard for Sailor Stars to be edited. All they'd really have to do is make the Starlights girls the entire time (like they were in the manga to begin with), pull a Cardcaptors and cut out Usagi x Seiya's relationship, cut out Haruka and Michiru's death and have it explained that they were "captured by the Negaverse", combine episodes 199 and 200, release an uncut version to please the purist fans, and then everyone's happy. And if they dub Sailor Stars for Cartoon Network, the series could get away with less cuts since cable TV isn't as strict about censorship as Saturday mornings. And if Toei's still that worried about American kids watching uncut Sailor Stars, they could even release it in a DVD boxset and price it at $150 like they did with the season one and two boxsets, so then it would be too expensive for most American kids to buy, anyway. I just don't get why Toei is so bent on keeping one show from having its dub screwed up yet could have the possiblity of getting an uncut release but they'll gladly allow another one of their shows get its dub screwed up without an uncut release at all. |
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Jkid
Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 195
Location: Capitol Heights ,MD
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:23 pm |
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| Ok I didn't expect 4kids to license Pretty Cure. I heard of the show in some anime blog circles. But doesn't 4Kids has enough programs to fill every Saturday of FoxBox? The best thing to do if you're really concern about it is to contact 4Kids and not watch the show. |
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Jerseymilk
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 157
Location: Wouldn't YOU like to know.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:46 pm |
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| Kouji wrote: | | Jerseymilk wrote: |
That's largely due to the fact that Toei wants Sailor Moon's reputation outside of Japan to remain largely a preschool girl type show. Kind of hard to convince companies and networks in other countries that, if your final season has sex changing Sailor Senshi. They could cover up the fact that Zoicite and Fish Eye were guys. They could rewrite it so that Michiru and Haruna were cousins and Haruna was just very "tomboyish". However, short of editing the majority of the series, they can't cover up three guys transforming into senshi with breasts, thigh-high boots and hot pants. |
That excuse might've worked ten years ago when Sailor Stars was first released in Japan, but I don't see how it still works now. It's been almost ten years since Sailor Moon debuted in the U.S. How many American Sailor Moon fans does Toei think are still preschool girls? I think most American Sailor Moon fans are old enough to watch Sailor Stars by now. Besides, if 4Kids can dub a children's anime like One Piece and make it acceptable for children's American television, surely it can't be that hard for Sailor Stars to be edited. All they'd really have to do is make the Starlights girls the entire time (like they were in the manga to begin with), pull a Cardcaptors and cut out Usagi x Seiya's relationship, cut out Haruka and Michiru's death and have it explained that they were "captured by the Negaverse", combine episodes 199 and 200, release an uncut version to please the purist fans, and then everyone's happy. And if they dub Sailor Stars for Cartoon Network, the series could get away with less cuts since cable TV isn't as strict about censorship as Saturday mornings. And if Toei's still that worried about American kids watching uncut Sailor Stars, they could even release it in a DVD boxset and price it at $150 like they did with the season one and two boxsets, so then it would be too expensive for most American kids to buy, anyway. I just don't get why Toei is so bent on keeping one show from having its dub screwed up yet could have the possiblity of getting an uncut release but they'll gladly allow another one of their shows get its dub screwed up without an uncut release at all. |
Note that I said "countries". Sailor Moon was not just syndicated in the U.S. you know. Toei is thinking about it's merchandising worldwide.
Plus not to mention, Sailor Moon is pretty old now. I know that Zac addressed this recently when someone asked about the musicals coming over here. The show just doesn't have enough clout anymore to warrant any heroic attempts to release the last season.
Add the fact that Toei just made it so difficult for ADV when they were putting out the first two seasons that the company gave up on renewing the license. I would think companies aren't too keen on trying to tackle getting more Sailor Moon released here. |
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Mohawk52
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 3857
Location: Celebrating Lindsey Hawker murder suspect arrest, in Basingstoke, UK.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:17 pm |
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| Jerseymilk wrote: | | Add the fact that Toei just made it so difficult for ADV when they were putting out the first two seasons that the company gave up on renewing the license. I would think companies aren't too keen on trying to tackle getting more Sailor Moon released here. |
I thought Toei pulled it from them instead of ADV giving it up. |
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 8416
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:33 pm |
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Mohawk: | Quote: | | Remember Japan has never had a Columbine type tragedy occur there yet. |
Actually, there were incidents of youth-related killings over the last few years which put Japan on edge. That's why they almost banned Battle Royale. In fact, the release of games like GTA there convinced them to finally implement a ratings system. Yeah, I don't get why they can shrug off a Sonny Chiba jidai-geki flick, but they find GTA immoral, either, but that's how they feel right now.
Joe: | Quote: | | There goes your best shot at anime on network TV. |
I'm not sure how companies like 4Kids know how to promote anime on network tv. I mean with the exception of Pokemon and Yu Gi Oh, the results have been mixed at best. They probably should just shove mature shows into the same slots as The Simpsons and Family Guy; but shows aimed at older audiences have also been mixed at best.(One Tree Hill, anyone?) |
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Jerseymilk
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 157
Location: Wouldn't YOU like to know.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:34 pm |
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| Mohawk52 wrote: | | Jerseymilk wrote: | | Add the fact that Toei just made it so difficult for ADV when they were putting out the first two seasons that the company gave up on renewing the license. I would think companies aren't too keen on trying to tackle getting more Sailor Moon released here. |
I thought Toei pulled it from them instead of ADV giving it up. |
They did, but ADV also didn't bother trying to renew it from them again either. |
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Laruto
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 287
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| Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:13 pm |
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| TakinawaTonfa wrote: | | Crawly wrote: | | TakinawaTonfa wrote: | | Y'know, with One Piece being a notoriously bad dub, is anyone gonna really bother getting into show from the start with the 4Kids brand on it? Because I really think theres alot more awareness today, than say, the time of the Yu-Gi-Oh hype about how 4Kids tends to treat their properties.... |
I disagree about the awareness part. The block may be called 4KidsTV, but the 7 year olds watching it don't really pay attention to who's producing the show or know 4Kids as anything more than a flash on the screen before the show starts. They just watch things because they catch their attention. Or tune out if the shows don't. And it's the 7 to 10 year old audience 4Kids is going after, both with the show and the merchandising.
As for OP, I ask only because I don't know. How does it rate on Cartoon Network? I know it doesn't do well on broadcast, but is the cable run making up for that, regardless of the demographic tuning in? |
Last I've heard, One Piece was actually doing alot better in the ratings on Toonami than on the 4kidsTV block. I think part of might have to do with the fact that it comes right after Naruto and before Bobobo (Naruto being the highest rated show on Toonami).
Of course, I've also heard that the overall ratings for the 4kidsTV are not very good at all. (Last time OP was on broadcast, it rated about a 0.4) |
One Piece and Naruto are the two Highest rated shows on CN. They're the only two shows who fight each other for the #1 Spot every night. 2nd, One Piece is doing Great not alot better, it's doing Getting bigger. It's on Muguzi, and On the general CN Bloack on Weekdays in the night time. I also Saw the feb. Ratings info for CN prime time slot and it states that ratings are up since Feb13. The Same time One Piece and DBZ became part of the Prime time lineup. One Piece helped give that Boost and the never Dead DBZ as well. By the way has anyone seen the DBZ One Piece Crossover from JUMP FESTA? |
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