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Pandadice
Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 182
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:10 am
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My apologies if this is the wrong place/format to submit this question in.
I was just looking at the Little Nemo staff listing, and the ANN entry has Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston (Just realized also that you have Ollie as "Johnson" opposed to "Johnston") down as animators. I was wondering what the source for this was? (When I clicked to see the source all it says is "Anime Encyclopedia Page 223," and I'm not sure what that means)
The credits on the movie itself only lists Frank and Ollie as "story consultants." And I can't find anywhere online that might mention them as uncredited animators (Except for ANN here). IMDB does list Roger Allers as an uncredited animator, though his wikipedia bio suggests he was an animation director.
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Dessa
Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 4438
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:56 am
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The Anime Encyclopedia is a book that was published in the early to mid 00s, that, quite frankly, is a piece of crap. It lists Minekura's Saiyuki under the same entry as Goku's Great Adventure, as well as a few other series that are based on the "Journey to the West" story, implying that all of them are either sequels or updates or whatever and related to each other.
Anyway, for the title in question, here is the relevant parts of the "encyclopedia" entry:
Quote: |
Little Nemo: Adventures in Slumberland
1989. Movie
DIR: Masami Hata, William Hurtz
SCR: Chris Columbus, Richard Outten,, Bruce Shaefer
DES: Jean Giraud, Brian Froud, Paul Julian, Kazuhide Tominaga
ANI: Yasuo Otsuka, Kazuaki Yoshinaga, Nobuo Tominaga
MUS: Richard Sherman, Robert Sherman
PRD: Tokyo Movie Shinsa
85 minutes
[insert description of the story and rather scathing "review" and rumors/gossip about production]
The production features a large number of famous names, including voice actors Mickey Rooney (Flip the Clown) and Rene Auberjonois (Professor Genius). Disney's Frank Thomas, Roger Allers, and Ollie Johnson (sic) were among the animators, the songs were written by the Sherman brothers (Chitty Chitty Bang Bang), while Jean "Moebius" Giraud provided "conceptual design." However, many of the crew are "ghost" credits symptomatic of a long and troubled production--Ray Bradbury is credited with the "screen concept" but seems to have left the production early on, while the press notes carelessly trumpet the involvement of Chinatown scenarist Robert Towne as a "story consultant," a likely sign that Towne had been called in to rescue a failing premise. Both Hayao Miyazaki and Isao Takahata split from the production at an early stage due to "creative differences," while Yoshifumi Kondo stayed to work on the first (1984) pilot. A second (1987) pilot, credited to Osamu Dezaki, also exists, and both are included as bonus items on the Laser Disc release. |
IMDB agrees with Pandadice's movie credits notes (unfortunately, I don't know how to check their sources) regarding Frank and Ollie.
While TAE does have some accurate info, I'd say that if Pandadice has access to the actual movie credits, we scrap the entries sourced to TAE and replace them with the ones from the movie credits. It's too hard to sort through what's correct and what's not in that.
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher
Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 10420
Location: Do not message me for support.
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:21 pm
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Dessa wrote: |
While TAE does have some accurate info, I'd say that if Pandadice has access to the actual movie credits, we scrap the entries sourced to TAE and replace them with the ones from the movie credits. It's too hard to sort through what's correct and what's not in that. |
I'm the one that entered that data from TAE.
I agree that we should defer to the official credits in this case unless we can find more data to back up the claims made in TAE. I wish TAE listed its sources, but that would unfortunately be too much to expect from a book like this.
I've marked these two entries as "improbable," you can now make more appropriate entries.
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 7580
Location: Wales
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:57 pm
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Both JC and HM are accessible online, so it wouldn't hurt to ask.
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doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 1708
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Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:16 pm
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Dessa wrote: | The Anime Encyclopedia is a book that was published in the early to mid 00s |
There are two editions—2001 and 2006. "Page 223" in this case refers to the former.
Dessa wrote: | It lists Minekura's Saiyuki under the same entry as Goku's Great Adventure, as well as a few other series that are based on the "Journey to the West" story, implying that all of them are either sequels or updates or whatever and related to each other. |
As you imply, they're related to each other by their origin, which is how many entries are done.
As Shiroi Hane says, Jonathan Clements and Helen McCarthy are on-line, though in my case JC has been the one to answer inquiries about the book.
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doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 1708
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Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:34 am
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I've E-mailed Jonathan Clements (as my own self, not any sort representative of ANN) asking about the source(s) for the entry.
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doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 1708
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Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:13 am
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Here are Mr. Clemens' responses:
Quote: | Johnson looks like a typo for Ollie Johnston.
Yasuo Otsuka's book Little Nemo no Yabō [The Prospect of Little Nemo].
Tokyo: Studio Ghibli, 2004, might throw some light on it. |
ISBN 4198618909.
Quote: | Actually, I have now checked in my office, and the two sources for
that article were:
1. The Animage Anime Pocket Data 2000* (ISBN 4-19-720114-1) and
2. something listed on my spreadsheet as "Beck", which I presume to be
an article by Jerry Beck, although I can't find it in my database.
I have the first source here, and it contains no details on the
foreign staff, so the truth is, I can't actually remember what my
source was for the information.
However, I wonder if everyone is talking at cross-pruposes, since the
Japanese title "doga kantoku", sometimes mistranslated as "animation
director", more usually means "key animator". The Anime Encyclopedia
lists lead animators -- including keys -- but does not include key
animators as "directors".
Meanwhile, "story" in Western animation often includes contributions
*from* animators, which has led to several spats with writers over who
gets actual credit. My source on the activities of Roger Allers was
either Beck or Fred Patten -- the latter being a hlepful correspondent
on the first edition, and very likely to have sent me any work by the
former, and Patten himself discusses Allers' involvement in Little
Nemo in his book Watching Anime, Reading Manga.
If Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston are not credited as "animators" on
the finished film, then I'll certainly be removing them from the
credit list in the AE3. |
The Watching Anime, Reading Manga mention is on page 163, with the citation endnote on page 176.
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