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Rªdì¢âl_£Ð
Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 112
Location: The wastelands of Earth (a.k.a. New Jersey, where the weak are killed and eaten)
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 Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:20 am |
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| Wyvern wrote: | | tempest wrote: | Besides, why subtitle anime when "Kids don't read" ?
-t |
Wait, did Al Kahn actually say that? Wow.
To think that all this time JK Rowling has been buying millions and millions of copies of her own books. Shameful |
Yes, Kahn was quoted saying that at the New York Comic Con (which I'm glad I decided not to go to) regarding manga and it's future in the American market. |
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OtacontheOtaku
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:37 am |
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| Kahn has the financial business sense of a semi-retarded Enron CEO. The man lucks out by somehow getting Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! and sees that as somehow making him this unfalable god of licenscing. Well, he finally gets a nice wake-up call this year. Kids are becoming less and less interested in "kiddy" titles now. The "collect-em-all" BS is finally on it's dying breath in US pop-culture and hopefully 4Kids will wise up and break it's contracts with FOX and stop raping truly great series. If only we lived in a perfect world T^T. |
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Emerje
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Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 4791
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:18 am |
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| Quote: | | and was offset by increased revenue from Winx Club, One Piece and Cabbage Patch Kids. |
Don't expect them to give up on One Piece anytime soon, looks like it's one of the few shows still making money for them. I'm guessing it's doing better on Toonami than anyone likes to admit.
Emerje |
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Malintex Terek
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:19 am |
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To Kahn's credit, he's correct; children are relying less on books are are focused more on television and computers. One could argue that message boards stimulate writing, but there's no positive reinforcement when people use shorthands or simply pass off spelling errors. Typing quickly is nothing to brag about if one cannot spell accurately.
However, he was wrong in citing manga as the chief problem regarding illiteracy in America. I could understand where he was coming from with most of his comments; he's a entertainment company's CEO, for crying aloud. But, he's no right to criticize manga as a negative; if manga gets children into books, it's a step above not reading at all.
Anyway, this pitfall wasn't anything of a surprise, though the large losses are a bit unusual. I would attribute such a decrease to the falling viewer attendance of Saturday Morning shows in general.
...
Hmm, so 4Kids sold all their Pokemon shares. I didn't *think* they would, but since 4Kids' took a hit this quarter and they've considerably less cash on-hand in comparison to the same time last year, it looks needed.
Furthermore, 4Kids would do well to focus on its "owned" properties; TMNT is a good show. Why would Kahn insult such a wonderful program?
We should expect good things to come from YGO GX. Looks to be a promising property; even with its humourously irreverent dub (You make puns now?! And not even good ones!), it's a step above trying to mass market a card game with Egyptian elements; YGO has finally ditched the Egyptian elements. Man, what a tax on one's brain.
| OtacontheOtaku wrote: | | Kahn has the financial business sense of a semi-retarded Enron CEO. The man lucks out by somehow getting Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! and sees that as somehow making him this unfalable god of licenscing. Well, he finally gets a nice wake-up call this year. Kids are becoming less and less interested in "kiddy" titles now. The "collect-em-all" BS is finally on it's dying breath in US pop-culture and hopefully 4Kids will wise up and break it's contracts with FOX and stop raping truly great series. If only we lived in a perfect world T^T. |
I don't think the success of Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon was due to "lucking out". The shows had nearly identical demographics in America and Japan, and they were treated with a logical and decent dub. Both shows were not very story-driven; they focused on battles. Hence, 4Kids usual style of dubbing; alliteration, puns, breaking the fourth wall, the occassional non-sequitur, ect. were most welcome. Sure, 4Kids didn't do as good a job as Bandai (Digimon) with the "tongue-in-cheek" elements, but it wasn't bad.
One Piece might look goofy, but it still follows the "demographic dilemma" problem of having "kiddie" elements coupled with "mature" themes; a good metaphor for the dub would be forcing an alligator to behave like a canary. It's painful. |
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 8419
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:19 am |
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| Quote: | | and was offset by increased revenue from Winx Club, One Piece and Cabbage Patch Kids. |
People actually buy Winx crap and still buy Cabbage Patch dolls?! Anyway, I'm guessing the "revenue" from One Piece just means the money from the home video rights and advertisers, not from the actual ratings for the show.
| Quote: | | While sales of older Yu-Gi-Oh! products have been tapering off, sales of GX products have been doing very well, but the products have been very slow to get to market. |
That's nicer way of saying they oversaturated the market for Yu Gi Oh, and the demand for GX has declined as a result. When they say GX is "doing well", it means that people are still buying into it, but probably not as many as in the past.
| Quote: | | Heading forwards, it was stressed that 4Kids wants to focus on properties it owns, as opposed to properties that it licenses. Fully owned properties and co-owned properties do not expire or have restrictions placed on them by licensors. |
It's a nicer way of saying they lost a bundle on the rights to One Piece, and since it didn't work out, Toei stopped doing business with them.
| Quote: | | New properties that 4Kids is committed to include "Viva Pinata," a game and TV series being produced with Microsoft, and Chaotic, a card game from Denmark for which 4Kids has purchased all rights. |
Because as we all know from the X Box, MS has its finger on the pulse of entertainment. 
| Quote: | | 4Kids TV ratings are up 16%, however revenue was down $0.6 million to $24.1 million. The decrease was due to a shortfall in advertising revenue. |
I can't imagine over half a million would really affect advertising revenue if the ratings were up. I'm guessing they're fudging their numbers by combining ratings from network tv and the Cartoon Network.
| Quote: | | 4Kids expects broadcast profit to improve in 2006 because it expects increased advertising revenue due to the higher ratings, the revenue should increase in the 2006-2007 season. Also, 4Kids has renegotiated its deal with Fox for 2 more years (2006-2007 and 2007-2008) at $20 million per year, compared to $25 million for previous years. |
If ratings are expected to increase, then why is FOX paying 4Kids less for airtime?
Otacon:
| Quote: | | Kahn has the financial business sense of a semi-retarded Enron CEO. |
The Enron CEOs weren't stupid, just a-holes. I'd say Kahn's more like Harvey Weinstein and Quentin Tarantino.
| Quote: | | Kids are becoming less and less interested in "kiddy" titles now. |
They still like "kiddy" titles. Otherwise Eight Below wouldn't be a hit. What they don't like are titles made for teens and adults which are dumbed down specifically for them.
| Quote: | | The "collect-em-all" BS is finally on it's dying breath |
Well the anime's died down(in the U.S. anyway), but Nintendo still makes money on the videogames.
Malintex: | Quote: | | One could argue that message boards stimulate writing, but there's no positive reinforcement when people use shorthands or simply pass off spelling errors. Typing quickly is nothing to brag about if one cannot spell accurately. |
How people write in forums isn't necessarily how they write essays. |
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GuyverC
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:24 am |
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As I read this topic, I find myself saddened at a lot of the responses.
The thing most people are missing, is that butchering the current anime titles they have, is NOT the reason 4Kids is loosing money specifically. Saying that they should have "learned" something from this, in regards to butching anime, is moot. Since it's not the reason ( a small part maybe) they lost so much money.
It basically the shows they have had running for a few years, are starting to get old and tiresome, and nobody wants to watch/buy the stuff anymore. It's the way American cartoons have always worked. They never have an actual conclusion to the main plot, so writers have to keep on coming up with new ideas. When a show is in it's infancy, it's easier to do. But after 2 or 3 seasons, writers usually always try to take things in other directions. And it's been proven, that it usually fails.
Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh are Anime examples of this ( although the original Yu-Gi-Oh ended, they made GX). Then switching them to a new direction ( New characters, new area) is a 50/50 shot. Some people will like it, while some HATE it.
And that is what they are into right now. Transition periods and new shows sometimes take time to catch on fully. As they "predict", next year will probably be a better year for them.
Now granted, if they had decided to release Uncut One Piece on DVD, they probably could have made a profit from it. Maybe a small one, but at least fans of One Piece would have been happy to buy them up. I know I would. |
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 8419
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:33 am |
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| Quote: | | Saying that they should have "learned" something from this, in regards to butching anime, is moot. Since it's not the reason ( a small part maybe) they lost so much money. |
No, but paying a premium for anime shows they had no experience marketing, and which appealed to different audiences then intended could be cited as reasons for their losses.
| Quote: | | It basically the shows they have had running for a few years, are starting to get old and tiresome, and nobody wants to watch/buy the stuff anymore. |
It's not that no one wants to buy their stuff. It's just that their more recent shows don't have the same merchandising potential as their older ones. Pokemon and Yu Gi Oh are products. One Piece and Mew Mew are concepts. Kids don't buy concepts. They buy products. Lesson learned? If it doesn't have any toy spin-offs, kids don't care. If they did care, then Bruce Timm and John Kricfalusi would be as rich as John Lasseter. |
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darkhunter
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2982
Location: Los Angelas
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:50 am |
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I really would like to see other anime companies fiscal year end result just for comparison.
The funny thing is if 4kids does poorly, fan blame it solely on the butchering.
But if an anime company like Geneon does poorly, people blame it on many reasons such like lacklust title or poor marketing |
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DarkTenshi90
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 440
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:58 am |
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I wouldn't hate 4kids so much if they actually didn't butcher meaningless things out of anime. I mean, look at poor One Piece. Everybody knows what happened to that show.
I'm glad this means less licensing... hopefully, for them. Everybody hates them 'cept little kids who watch it. |
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omnistry
Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 755
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:17 am |
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| The end is near? Probably not; but maybe this'll help them realize that changes need to be made. |
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Joe Mello
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 1507
Location: Tekkoshocon
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:28 am |
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| tempest wrote: | | 4Kids is not an anime company, they have no interest in releasing stuff that hardcore fans will enjoy |
I call these results a lull. The old guard is going out and the new guard is still trying to get itself situated. Thus, there's a gap. 60% is a pretty big gap, though, and Al has a right to be pissed. |
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Aresef
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 174
Location: MD
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:01 am |
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| GATSU wrote: | | Because as we all know from the X Box, MS has its finger on the pulse of entertainment. |
Actually, Viva Pinata was created by Rareware, and has been in the works for several years now, so no worries.
As for this story, any news leading to 4Kids' possible demise/withdrawl from anime is good news. |
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Aresef
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 174
Location: MD
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:07 am |
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| darkhunter wrote: | I really would like to see other anime companies fiscal year end result just for comparison.
The funny thing is if 4kids does poorly, fan blame it solely on the butchering.
But if an anime company like Geneon does poorly, people blame it on many reasons such like lacklust title or poor marketing |
Most fans, when they hear 4Kids is doing poorly, smile and raise their hands to the heavens. For good reason. They license shows, chop them up, then market them to American kids without really considering what the "true" fans want, because we're not their market.
When a *real* anime distributor does poorly, we wonder why because we ARE their market. EVERYBODY here buys Cowboy Bebop, so when Bandai Entertainment claims a revenue drop, we can't for the life of us imagine why. |
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Sango chan
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 19
Location: In the demon slayers Village
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:18 am |
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| ladholyman wrote: | | Serves them right for the butchering. |
Ha ha, Damn straight. they are blaming it on yu-gi-oh, pokemon and ninja turtles(actually, the new ninja turtles suck to begin with. no way does this one compare to the 1987 ones) when it's really their own damn fault that they went to such a downfall. They bucher the crap out of really good anime. they even cut stuff out for the hell of it. look what they did to Mew mew power, there was nothing unapporperite in there. i saw some of the japanese version. they should of left it alone, but no they had to go cut things out to make a 10 and up show a 7 and up show. pah, morons. they don't even release the japanese verson with subs and uncut with their damn dvd's. they did that with one piece.
when it comes to the anime, amarica is do damn strict with what they allowed to be released with the kids shows, it's kinda sickening. just give it a higher rating and leave the thing uncut with a good script.
ok, done venting now. lol |
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tempest
ANN Editor in Chief
Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 7058
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:22 am |
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| darkhunter wrote: | | I really would like to see other anime companies fiscal year end result just for comparison. |
So would I.
Unfortunately they are all privately owned (AnimEigo, ADV, Tokyopop, CPM, Media Blasters) or Subsidiaries (Funimation, Bandai, Geneon, Manga).
We can get some information about the subsidiaries, especially manga & funimation, who have American corporate parents. But the private ones keep their revenue... private.
-t |
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