Forum - View topicNEWS: Rising Star Finalist Accused of Plagiarism
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jgreen
 Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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No kidding, man. If I see one more person spell the word "plagiarize" wrong, I'm going to lose it.
Are you kidding? Liefeld is the biggest hack in the history of comics. Any artist who is so lazy that they scatter rocks on the landscape so they don't have to draw feet should probably be considering a different career path. As to the main topic of the thread, I'm not that surprised by the swipes, nor all that offended really. I mean, lots of artists use other artists' work for reference, it just so happens in this case that the artist was a little more lazy and blatant about it. I think it's pretty shortsighted of them to reference one of the most popular and longest-running samurai manga in the States for their own samurai story. The laziness of the artist is pretty striking. Check this out to see the last page of "Samurai Zombie", then click "Next Image" to see the same page done by putting together different BotI images. Sad, really. |
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Izlude
Posts: 323 Location: Wherever The Wind Takes Me |
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No artist is perfect. If you consider that lazy, then you must not read many manga where alot of shortcuts and turns are taken just to get it published on time. |
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Abarenbo Shogun
 Posts: 1573 |
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Rob Liefield pretty much makes such comics like Eiken, Tenjo Tenge, Ikki Tousen, and any other boob-infested anime or manga look like Classical Art books. His "women" often had exagerated positions that were either anatomiclly incorrect or uncomfortable and looked muscular for their own good (and sparked rumors that some art looked like it was a mans body with women features). I mean, compare his women like Glory or Avengelyne to real female bodybuilders. You can see the difference. |
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Izlude
Posts: 323 Location: Wherever The Wind Takes Me |
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But comics aren't supposed to always be all that realistic and stuff ya know? I mean look at some of manga out there, it's no different. I find nothing particuarly wrong with fantasy, alot of artists out there draw characters with bodies that would be otherwise humanly impossible. I mean really. It may be un-realstic, but it can be fun to draw, and if the artist enjoys it, thats all that really matters.
And don't lump Tenjou Tenge in with Eiken! Please! OhGreat is much better than that crap. Ikkitousen on the other hand, I could care less for, with the number of plagiarism accusations againest it on the web. Why people get angry over an amature comic attempt over a professionally published and on-going series boggles me. |
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gingersoll
Posts: 2 |
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For those interested in claims against Leifeld for being a rip off--in addition to not being able to draw...
http://julien-gautier.club.fr/rob_copie.jpg http://www.omgcomics.com/Rob_Liefeld_tribute.htm http://adlo.dreamers.com/estudios/comparativas.htm http://clamnuts.com/rants/2005/11/rob-liefeld-cant-draw-feet.html http://members.aol.com/chrisv82/america.htm [/url] |
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Gauss
 Posts: 519 Location: Finland |
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While I do think it's important not to confuse "right" and "write" I think "someanything" is a rather nifty coinage of a new word. Now, if he could also provide a definition instead of forcing me to intuitively figure it out I would be a happy dog. |
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jgreen
Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Maybe no artist is perfect, but there are certainly very few artists that get away with having a career in art without having any artistic talent whatsoever. Yes, artists take shortcuts to save time. Yes, artists exagerrate anatomy beyond realistic proportions for effect. But Liefeld doesn't JUSt do those things. It becomes pretty clear when looking at just a HANDFUL of images (like, say, the images in those pages gingersoll linked to) that the man has no grasp of anatomy or perspective whatsoever, two of the most essential things for any artist. Exagerration is one thing, but having two women who are the same height standing one behind the other, and the one in the back is taller than the one in the foreground....how does that work? Liefeld draws 90% of his characters with their hands in fists because he sucks at drawing fingers. His characters frequently have no neck, wrists or feet, and when they do have feet they are almost hilariously undersized. Not to mention the guy has the attention span of a gnat, and has drawn more than 6 issues of a comic in well over a decade. I'm sorry, but whether or not Liefeld is a bad artist isn't really open for a debate. He's bad on so many basic levels that I'm, quite frankly, SHOCKED that he even manages to find work. |
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Izlude
Posts: 323 Location: Wherever The Wind Takes Me |
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There's no such thing has a "bad artist" in my opinion, just poor judgement (on the artists part). Or something. But whatever. Who am I to judge an artist. I can hand out some constructive critique to an artist, but I can't tell an artist how they should draw or tell them they are inferior.
Every artist has their own style and procedure of producing their works. If you don't like it that's fine, but you don't have to throw shit at it because your so stark raving mad over it. |
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gingersoll
Posts: 2 |
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I have a friend who runs a comic shop, we laugh about this all the time. He says probably 9 of ten Leifeld books he sells since the guy was booted from Image have been to the cult which now surrounds his name. A lot of people remember when his art seemed cool back when they were kids and now buy his books because they are so terrible it's funny. Spotting the frames he steals is a big part of it too.
And if any artist deserves shit thrown at them... well if you've ever heard/read how this guy reacts to criticism about his work, you know he brings it on himself. Lets be honest, there are a lot of terrible comic artists all over the world, but sometimes the artist's attitude attracts the hate more than their poor quality of work. Blatant plagiarism also tends to attract hate. Hendra Wahjud is finding that out about now too... Maybe Mr. Liefeld needs an assistant... |
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jgreen
Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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I'm not exactly "stark raving mad" about the guy, but there's plenty of reasons not to like Liefeld other than his artistic style. His dealings with his detractors have certainly shown him to be a collosal prick. He has blatantly stolen characters from other creators (including a friend of mine, whose self-published character he showed to Liefeld at a convention, only to have him show up in an issue of Youngblood, with fringe on his boots; this apparently made him a "new" character). He's a horribly shady businessman, which got him kicked out of Image and drove his later company Awesome into the ground. But I digress..... I would disagree with your comment that there is no such thing as a "bad artist". The quality of a piece of art is, by and large, subjective, and I don't disagree with you there. But art is kind of like cooking. Say you've got three Italian restaurants. One uses a sweet tomato sauce on their pasta, the other one uses a spicier sauce. Which is better? Well, that's subjective. But say the third one is just incompetent. They undercook the pasta to the point it's still crunchy. They either cook meat too long 'til it's burned to a crisp, or they undercook it to the point where it's dangerous. Can anyone honestly say that the third guy should be judged equal to the other two because, hey, everyone's taste buds are different? People whose artistic skills are so underdeveloped that they have to steal all of their content, copying from other sources in order to produce anything, are quite simply bad artists. If you have to reference 6 different pages of someone else's comic in order to trace out one page of yours, you need to be practicing, not trying to get published, because you really aren't ready for the game yet. Just my two cents.... |
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Abarenbo Shogun
Posts: 1573 |
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You forgot: http://www.sequentialtart.com/archive/mar01/bb_0301.shtml |
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metalformer
Posts: 13 Location: Puerto Rico |
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All In can see is that he copied the scenes too much. If his intention was to use them as reference, he should have work a little harder to make them less obvious.
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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ANYONE can say anything on the internet. Period. Besides, the images of the panels speak for themselves, so the story has some merit. So they got the story from LJ, big deal. Lots of news on LJ. Whether it has a basis or not isn't in question anymore because they have the images, and those back up the claim. |
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jgreen
Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Uh oh....Rich Johnston has hopped on the bandwagon. He posted about the swiping incident in today's edition of his column "Lying in the Gutters", the most widely read comics gossip column on the internet. (See it here) There's an image there that is especially damning, seeing as it overlays the SZ and BotI images on top of each other and shows how they are, more or less, IDENTICAL.
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littlegreenwolf
Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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*Cringes* Oww. Now before he/she had a slight chance of getting away with freehand, but some of those look like tracings. I don't know what was wrong with Hendra Wahjudi, but that there just completly ruined their reputation. If they're still looking for a career in comics, better for them to change their name now. I mean seriously, I can understand using an existing comic for refrence to style and composition of frames, but tracing a whole freaking page and just altering a few details is not what a developing comic artist should do. Use your freaking imagination like any other artist, or you won't develop. |
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