Forum - View topicNEWS: Hayao Miyazaki Retires From Making Feature Films
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Is it really that hard to comprehend that someone might just seriously find a body of work following a certain product to be bad or subpar in comparison? While I don't quite agree with YamadaKun's more extreme viewpoint on the matter, I don't necessarily see him as completely wrong either. "Howl's Moving Castle" was a mess. It was absolutely gorgeous to be sure, but it was horribly paced with a very poor conclusion. I enjoy it for the visuals, kind of like "Advent Children", but from a story and writing perspective it was a wreck. If I had to be completely honest I wouldn't place anything that has come out of Ghibli following "Spirited Away" near the level of much of what was produced prior. I will admit though that I have not yet seen "Arrietty" or "From Up on Poppy Hill", so who knows if viewing those two might change my tune. However, I will say that I see "Howl's Moving Castle" as a great piece of eye candy with a lack of quality otherwise, and "Ponyo" was just a charming movie to me that didn't really impress me to huge lengths like prior Ghibli films did. Now, honestly Ghibli's older works haven't always amazed me either. I honestly find "Porco Rosso" to be incredibly overrated. It just felt like the film was gearing up to go somewhere it just never ended up going, and the finale was just plain mediocre. So to me a few subpar films isn't the end of the world like it is for YamaduKun, but from what I've seen of Miyazaki and even Ghibli's work as a whole since "Spirited Away", I'm honestly less than impressed. |
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bravetailor
Posts: 817 |
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I sort of have the feeling Spirited Away wouldn't be held up as a highwater totem pole if it hadn't won an Oscar. I remember the reactions to it when it initially came out, while obviously positive, was more muted than it was today and many people still insisted it wasn't as good as Princess Mononoke or most of Ghibli's 90s stuff. It was only when it won the Oscar that it became nigh-untouchable from a critical standpoint, which is a shame in my opinion as there are plenty of holes you could poke through it.
I think Spirited Away is OK and all, but rewatching it today I can't help but find it feeling incredibly laboured at times, like it's trying a little bit too hard to impress, both visually and script wise. Miyazaki's films from Mononoke to Howl's indulged in a sort of visual excess that at times bordered on tacky. I guess if you felt like "more is more", you wouldn't care. But coming from a design standpoint, I can't help but think of dozens of animators slaving away at every minute detail when watching Spirited Away. Like China's 2008 Beijing Olympic Opening Ceremonies, it's hugely impressive, but not necessarily fun. I also find the climax, much like many of Miyazaki's scripts, feeling like it somewhat came out of nowhere. I guess this isn't a criticism since a lot of my favorite Miyazakis do the same thing, but I want to use this as an example of Spirited Away not necessarily rising above so many other so-called lesser Miyazakis from a script standpoint. It doesn't have the effortless, playful, freewheeling nature of Totoro, Kiki or Ponyo, and its tired "coming of age" quest is actually more heavy handed here than some of Ghibli's less serious stuff. From a pure art/animation standpoint, I found Ponyo to be a hugely refreshing change from the laboured early 2000s Ghibli because it felt like Miyazaki was having fun for a change. The animators seemed to have more freedom to improvise. They weren't just trying to blow you away with detail and precision in scene after scene. The backgrounds, for a change, didn't look like they were trying to compete with the pre-Raphaelites. There's a lot more playing around with negative space, noodling linework (check out the way it depicts ocean waves!), and there's a sense of very talented artists managing to combine their experience with a child's joy of drawing, without actually resorting to crude drawings. That last part is key, and it's where many children's cartoons fail. A lot of animators seem to think that making cartoons for super little kids means throwing out your draftsmanship. Where Ponyo succeeds above almost every other children's animated film or TV show is that they don't lower themselves skill-wise in order to emulate a child's artistic naivete. Out of all the Ghiblis, Ponyo is the only one that actually makes me break out my old sketchbook and pencil after every viewing. For me, that's what makes the film break into my top 3 Miyazaki list, even with the weird scripting choices in the 2nd half (I actually don't think Miyazaki is really the greatest writer, when looking at his entire career--it's his strong classical direction, world building, command of mood and atmosphere, attention to human behaviour, and storyboarding make his movies what they are IMO). It's just a great filmic example of the joys of drawing. |
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TurnerJ
Posts: 481 Location: Highland Park, NJ |
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The Cat Returns is one of Ghibli's weakest movies, IMO, but to say that the Return to Neverland and Jungle Book II sequels are superior to it is just ludicrous. Those two movies were clearly made from corporate greed and zero imagination. While Cat Returns is the least inspired of the film's it didn't strike me as such a film. |
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Keonyn
Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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I'm going to have to disagree. I don't even follow the Oscars and had placed it on its pedastel well before I even learned it won an Oscar. To be honest, I find the opposite to be true. I often find that once films win an Oscar or some great award more people show up trying to poke holes in it and point out the flaws. From my perspective fame and notoriety tend to draw greater criticism, not the other way around. I also can't say I agree with your take on "Spirited Away" at all. While you might have something of a point in how Ghibli films do go about their conclusions, I found "Spirited Away" is less guilty in that regards than their other films (in particular "Howl's Moving Castle" which is a textbook example of how not to conclude a story to me). That detail you chastise is also part of what makes Ghibli who they are and gets them the notoriety they've managed to achieve. Maybe it seems busy to you, that's your opinion, but to me it is the amazing environments and backgrounds, not just the story, that make Ghibli films as amazing as they are (similar to Shinkai's use of glows and saturation). I see your point on the stylistic simplicity of "Ponyo", but I can't say I see it as anything extraordinary or particularly inspiring. |
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bravetailor
Posts: 817 |
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I think Oscars very obviously don't always get it right. I could name half their Best Picture winners that have simply become a footnote over time, while lesser regarded or runner up films' reps became greater. There's also the popular trend of filmmakers getting the most acclaimed for their least deserved films. Scorsese, for instance. Tarantino. Spielberg. Cameron. Now, I'm not saying Spirited Away is bottom of the barrel Miyazaki, far from it. But I think his career from an objective standpoint has been more of an up and down trend than a rise, peak and decline. But that's just my opinion. I think one could certainly mount significant criticisms against Princess Mononoke, Castle in the Sky, Porco Rosso and even Nausicaa as well. Conversely, one could mount a spirited defence of Howl's Moving Castle and Ponyo (like I sort of did above). I think Miyazaki has been a flawed enough screenwriter throughout his career that one could find enough baggage in each of his films to inflate or deflate depending on how you perceive their importance to their films to be. |
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