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Hey, Answerman! [2006-04-14]


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Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 1820
Location: Tekkoshocon

PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:38 pm Reply with quote
OMG Soapbox! I might be able to use some of that.

I think Zac and the ANN crew might need the space to rant about aspiring animators.... ^^;
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DemonEyesLeo



Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 844
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:59 pm Reply with quote
Nice idea with the Rant thing. This could be interesting.
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konosuke15



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:14 am Reply with quote
ohh, the rants are gonna be fun to read ^^
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Keonyn
Moderator


Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5555
Location: Coon Rapids, MN

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:14 am Reply with quote
Hopefully the flake of the week will make a few returns, seems likely at any rate, simply because I can just imagine some of the rants people will send in and it certainly does raise the probability of a good flake showing up each week.
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Successful_Troll



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:59 am Reply with quote
Wow, I come up with rants all the time, but have nothing to do with them. Maybe I'll start sending them in. I'm sure I can come up with at least 300 words.
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Ceru



Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:04 am Reply with quote
I see nothing wrong with aspiring animators. I've been one since I was 8 years old.

The issue is with the aspiring animators who want to skip all the important steps and just get to the part where they make an amazing OMGno-one'severthoughtofTHISbefore anime that wows everyone, otakus and non-fans alike, and goes down in history as the first North American example of good, quality anime.

What do you mean you have to draw 12 drawings for every SECOND?

The animation career path isn't one that you just "land". You dedicate yourself to it; you work yourself down to the marrow. (To aspiring animators) Your best option right now is to START RESEARCHING. Go online (try www.awn.com), check out the profiles of prominent animation figures (Walt Disney/Nine Old Men, Chuck Jones), watch cartoons (REAL cartoons, no animation school will accept a portfolio with anime in it), and above all, DRAW. Draw, draw, draw, draw, and draw from LIFE. Draw stills, draw people on the subway, draw classmates and animals and trees and lakes. Draw until you don't think you'll be able to draw anymore and then draw some more.

The information about employers preferring a degree is false. Employers base decisions primarily on your portfolio... While school NAMES mean something small, it all boils down to what you're capable of doing.
I happen to be in a degree program but the title doesn't really matter-- it just means that I have one more year to make an astounding portfolio.

That's all I'll say, I tend to talk too much on this matter. ^__^
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NamaeX



Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 65
Location: The Internet

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:25 am Reply with quote
Ceru wrote:
What do you mean you have to draw 12 drawings for every SECOND?


12? Pfft that's too few frames. A second lasts 24 frames. With the NTSC, it's 30 frames per second.

(I'm a computer animation student)
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totalgeek



Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 307
Location: Raleigh, NC

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:18 am Reply with quote
NamaeX wrote:
Ceru wrote:
What do you mean you have to draw 12 drawings for every SECOND?


12? Pfft that's too few frames. A second lasts 24 frames. With the NTSC, it's 30 frames per second.

(I'm a computer animation student)


True, but doesn't anime tend to shoot a ratio of 1 to 2, or something like that? I thought I had learned awhile back that the reason some anime has slightly choppy animation is because they conserve frames and use the same image for more than one frame. If that is correct, then you would only need 12 drawings in order to shoot 24 frames of anime.

Or do I have that mixed up, somehow?
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Tenka-Ichi



Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:51 am Reply with quote
totalgeek wrote:
NamaeX wrote:
Ceru wrote:
What do you mean you have to draw 12 drawings for every SECOND?


12? Pfft that's too few frames. A second lasts 24 frames. With the NTSC, it's 30 frames per second.

(I'm a computer animation student)


True, but doesn't anime tend to shoot a ratio of 1 to 2, or something like that? I thought I had learned awhile back that the reason some anime has slightly choppy animation is because they conserve frames and use the same image for more than one frame. If that is correct, then you would only need 12 drawings in order to shoot 24 frames of anime.

Or do I have that mixed up, somehow?

No, you're right. Also, NTSC isn't exactly 30 fps... it's 29.97. Razz
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.Sy



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 1266

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:42 am Reply with quote
Anime also has a lot fewer frames per second than Western animation, so keep that in mind too. And about that Ranting thing, it could really be interesting. I suppose it takes your mind off of daily pet peeves for a while.
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jsevakis
ANN Director of New Media


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1528
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:00 am Reply with quote
No, no -- you're right. The number of anime shot on 1's (full 24 fps) can be counted on one hand.

Most of the higher budget shows are shot on 2's (even in the States), but sadly, it's not uncommon for anime to stoop as low as shooting on 3's (8 fps) or even occasionally 4's on the real cheap crap (although that's pretty rare nowadays outside of Mainland Chinese-produced animation).

And if you shoot at full 29.97 NTSC frame rate, it tends to look cheaper, because our eyes are taught to associate 24 fps with a high budget "movie" look, as opposed to cheaply made video. (See early 2D/3D blended anime like for examples of this.) So most anime is made at 12 fps with occasional spikes to 24 and a few dips to 8. Unless, of course, you can avoid the issue entirely with a slow pan. :p

One additional thing: Companies don't hire 15-year-olds for anything if they can help it, because they're legally not allowed to work for very long. While it's true that there are definite animation prodigies out there, there are so many technical tricks to animation that there really is no way around it -- you really have to go to an animation school, even in Japan. The good news is that this is also a fast-track. Major studios all recruit at the major animation colleges, so if your work sticks out among your peers, you can get a job pretty easily.
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xvkarbear



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 21
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:51 am Reply with quote
is it me, or does Zac seem to be answering less and less questions every week?
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Ceru



Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:20 am Reply with quote
NamaeX wrote:
Ceru wrote:
What do you mean you have to draw 12 drawings for every SECOND?


12? Pfft that's too few frames. A second lasts 24 frames. With the NTSC, it's 30 frames per second.

(I'm a computer animation student)


That's standard. 12 drawings for every second is TV standard. It's not till you reach Disney level that you shoot on ones (24/sec).

CG isn't "drawings", it's images. 3D you are fully able to go 29.97, because creating tweens isn't hard-- a few mouse clicks. But in hand-drawn animation, creating a new in between takes TIME. You can rotate an object in Maya or 3D Max in a matter of seconds. You can rotate an object through drawing in a matter of hours, possibly a day or two depending on the complexity of the subject.

I'm sorry, but I have to say that I have more respect and appreciation for hand-drawn stuff shot on 2's than CG stuff that's done at 29.97fps.

(I'm a traditional animation student)
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 6853
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:11 am Reply with quote
xvkarbear wrote:
is it me, or does Zac seem to be answering less and less questions every week?


It fluctuates between 4 and 5, and the answers vary in length. It isn't the same every time.
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xvkarbear



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 21
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:13 am Reply with quote
True, traditionally hand drawn animation takes much more time then computer generated animation does.

Although, it's unfair to say the effort required is less. "A few mouse clicks" is not all it takes. There's much more involved then clicking or dragging or pointing.

We learn the same basics of animation that everyone else does, just happen to use different tools to create it.

(Also a computer animation student)
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