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Hey, Answerman! [2006-04-21]


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Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 1812
Location: Tekkoshocon

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:17 pm Reply with quote
Jason, I like the cut of your jib. You also win because you touch upon one of my favorite points: "There is no substitute for good parenting."

I will admit that I was brought in as part of the Pokémon generation (even though I was in 7th grade at the time) so I've had some time to watch the otaku culture emerge. It might be because I'm old and jaded, but I concur that what this latest group to be a little hard to swallow. Granted some adults aren't much better, but still.

Man I could go on for hours about this. No time though.
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jaybug39



Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 552
Location: Oregon, Is it FOOTBALL yet?

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:44 pm Reply with quote
Gee, maybe I should be glad to live in an anime ignorant area. I wouldn't know the difference between the ugly otaku, and various and sundry riff raff.

Personally I am more concerned with methamphetamine addicts, of which there are an abundance. But it sounds like they have many things in common, isolated, rude, and unpleasant to be around.

From my experience in the ANN forum, it seems to me that most of the grief is due to adolescence. Call it what? Beavis and Butthead syndrome? I was certainly one of those two at 13-15 years of age.

While I may wish it were my job to "fix" people, I strive not teach pigs to sing, it only wastes my time and it annoys the pig. So the best I can do it to keep trying to live up to the ideal I think I am supposed to try for. And to look for the good in people, even if I think they would make great SS men.

Do that, and actually try to learn something herre at ANN forum that will enhance my enjoyment of anime. And I am suprised at how much I have learned, and am very pleased with a lot of people who do post, they have been so helpful and forgiving of my ignorances. Even when they are letting me know that maybe I could have been a bit more dilligent in researching a topic.
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NamaeX



Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 65
Location: The Internet

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:48 pm Reply with quote
It sad,

People buy bootlegs because the Official DVD prices are high, and the reason why the DVD prices are high is because of the people who end up buying bootlegs and never the Official DVDs.

Tis a vicious cycle. Anime cry

All I can say now is that I'm happy that I'm one of the people that watch fansubs and then buy the official DVDs of whatever I watched to support the industry.
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Kagemusha



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:50 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
licenses it may have a tough time getting it on store shelves.

I'm actually suprised to hear that considering one of the biggest selling points of the manga IS its graphic content. I mean I know it's more risky to licence something like Gantz than, say, the newest thing in Shonen Magazine, but let's face it: sex and violence sells. Look at Berserk. Both have about the same level of violence/sex and more or less the same fan following at the time they were licenced (Berserk probobly more, but Gantz still has its share of raving fanboys). I really don't see why it couldn't sell resonably well, definitally better than some of the "mature" crap Tokyopop puts out. I always though the reason companies other than Viz don't touch Gantz is because it's published by Shueisha. Of course, I could be wrong, but it does seem a bit strange...
That said, I'm getting a bit sick of the frenzy surrounding Gantz. Yes, it's a well above average series with suprising depth to back up it's over-the-top mayham, and yes it is better than most of the manga being published in America. But c'mon people, there are better seinen titles out there that will never get the attention Gantz gets because they don't follow a conventional formula and don't have shocking amounts of tits and guts. Guess I should have just sent this in as my half-assed rant.
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DemonEyesLeo



Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 844
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:51 pm Reply with quote
I think this is a good start for the Rant section.

I agree with Mr. Draksler and I'd like to add to it. At first the word "otaku" in the West was simply used to describe anime fans. But recently, it seems the word has started to become more like the Japanese use: the crazy/obsessed fan who, as Jason said, "shut themselves in their room to watch the next Anime series he or she just pirated off the net."

Good stuff in this Rant section, let's hope it keeps going.
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NamaeX



Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 65
Location: The Internet

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:54 pm Reply with quote
DemonEyesLeo wrote:
I think this is a good start for the Rant section.

I agree with Mr. Draksler and I'd like to add to it. At first the word "otaku" in the West was simply used to describe anime fans. But recently, it seems the word has started to become more like the Japanese use: the crazy/obsessed fan who, as Jason said, "shut themselves in their room to watch the next Anime series he or she just pirated off the net."

I hope we'll never reach the point where someone becomes like Tsutomu Miyazaki.
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konosuke15



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:56 pm Reply with quote
I agree with Jason, partially. I used to shut myself up in my room all the time (and still do) to watch and read the latest stuff (and i still do) But, im progressing back into the word, little by little.

Also, I agree that fansubbing and all that isnt the 'true' form, but it is what i personally prefer (And, i can't buy the official DVD's, so its a necessary evil for me)...

Gah, i could go on rant about this....
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SaiyenGirl



Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 17
Location: PA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:05 am Reply with quote
I found a lot of true things in the rant. I don't know how I stack up when it comes to "Anime Generations" but I remember watching Sailor Moon at 5am in the morning 'cause that's the only time it was on (this was back when I was in elementary school, say 5th grade or so), so I guess you could call me a semi-pre Pokemon generation, even though I had no concept of it being Anime until middle school.

But I digress, I think the main point I want to make is that I don't see the quality of the fans going down it's just the inevitable fate that Anime has slowly seeped into the veins of the mainstream/underground. Back when I watched Sailor Moon etc there weren't tons of goth kids running around attempting to cosplay and being emo over their favorite characters, mostly because it was so hard to come by anime, albeit it was so expensive and you had to go digging for it. Now that its more easily accessible (hence the pirating) and seeing as it's "cartoons" you're going to see a younger group of people attracted to it, sad to admit it, but the "goth" and "emo" generations especially, who are becoming the worst possible poster kids for the "culture".

I read a disturbing article the other day talking about how parents of this new generation are becoming "hip parents" wearing the styles of their kids, changing jobs all the time, doing as they please etc etc. Whoa, you can tell why a lot of their kids are turning out the way they are and doing the kinds of things you see at conventions and what not (ps. if you want to see drastic/ugly shifts in fanbases, just ask a cosplayer/anyone in the convention scene, we can tell you horror stories; you have no idea the # of quality people dropping out to make room for the emo kids).

Like someone said, I could talk about this topic forever, but it's a mute point and I have little time. It's sad to see it go the way it has, but you have to remember that there are still TONS of older generation anime fans still out there and sane new ones as well that are just hiding. I have plenty of friends that I've introduced to anime that are nothing at all like the kids these days that happen to flop into it. Keep the hope alive guys. ^___^
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 12434

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:24 am Reply with quote
Quote:
A representative from a manga publishing company (who shall remain nameless) informed me that one of the reasons nobody's touching Gantz


Wait, I thought Shueisha owned Gantz.

Quote:
is primarily because it's so adult; if you look at the top selling manga, it's all either aimed at girls (which Gantz is certainly not) or aimed at older kids and young teengers (also which Gantz is not).


Berserk and Lone Wolf aren't aimed at girls and teens, either, and they seem to be doing fine for Dark Horse. So given those circumstances, the anime's probably just underperforming, thus making the manga unprofitable at the present time.

Quote:
As for the Monster anime, I hear that a lot from anime fans who think it'd do well in the states, and as much as I like Monster, I have to disagree with that. The show is a relatively slow-moving, dialogue heavy drama starring a middle-aged surgeon. There's not a lot of action; basically, it could very easily be a live-action American serial, except for the fact that it's animated. I don't think it really has much of a market here in the states; were it to have a TV run, I'm not sure it'd find much of an audience.


Black Jack seemed to find an audience with CPM and Manga...
Probably moreso than the recent Astroboy, anyway.

Quote:
I mean, Master Keaton didn't exactly burn up the sales charts or really generate much of a fanbase here, and it was aimed at the same general market.


Different series. Plus Keaton was advertised as a Indiana Jones- type anime, but without a compelling lead. Monster might have a better chance, especially given the success of CSI.

Quote:
I think you have a better chance of seeing the show adapted into a regular primetime drama for a major network than being shown on television; it might get licensed for DVD, sure, but beyond that, eh.


If they can put crap like Spawn on the air, I don't see why Monster wouldn't have a chance.

Kagemusha:
Quote:

I'm actually suprised to hear that considering one of the biggest selling points of the manga IS its graphic content.


Seems to be the case with yaoi atm...
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Radical Lindsay



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 16
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:25 am Reply with quote
I loved how Jason put "supporting" and "true" in quotes. He deserves a cookie for that! To save my own rant, hopefully most of us know why he did that. Wink
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vickeyv



Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 183

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:36 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Jason's article


At first glance i was under the impression that the article was written to perfection and highlighted the recent disparity between the two generations of anime fans, the ones who made licencing a common thing and the other who abused it by taking fansubs to greater levels.

But after being pensive about it for a while i came to the conclusion that its just plain frustration Jason is trying to steam out and the only reason Zac put it in was that it was a well composed and had controversial points.

The article it self contains several assumptions and sweeping statements, the paramount to these being that watching anime/fansubs the way recent fans do leads to anti-social behaviour and lack of civility through idolization of characters or what eva.
The fact is anime is in the end like just another show. People in the States obviously watch it as an alternate to main stream American shows.

American shows, mainly sitcoms contain even worse morals and jokes compared to anime. American hollywood celebraties and rock stars are idolized in more vicious and ferocious ways, which i am sure i am not needed in elaborating. Anime is far lesser of the two evils.

The jokes and drama of sitcoms and other American shows like say Alias, is boring and repetitive. Even Friends on closer inspection reveals crappy wrtiting and pathetic jokes, i recall this epsidoe which i remember every one raving about was amazing because Brad Pit showed up, and the main crux of the jokes were targeted towards a rumor that Racheal was a she-male, now thats gotta be the worse sort of idiotic joke i have ever heard, other popular themes explored on firends are womanizing, gays, lesbians and teenagers marrying and knocking over older women. And even borthers donating seed to sisters. Now that gotta be the worst load of bull which is really tarnishing the minds of American individuals. Anime is like an island in this sea of endless jokes explored on these thems. Just think for a moment how many American shows and sitcoms explore these themes. Even Malcom in the middle a show i used to liked is sliding on the toilet humor side.

Jason even further goes and elaborates sorta on anti-social behaviour. So watching anime alone is really that much of an evil that breeds anti-social behaviour. Being social also comes with great hazards, most of the times even worse hazzards. Anti-social behaviour can lead to lowering of confiedence and limiting ones potential, but being over socical (there is a very thin line between being over social and social which is easily crossed) leads to going to joints, smoking weed, drinking senselessly and what not. THe later leaves uncurable dents on the human's life.

There is absoultely nothing wrong in tuning into anime when ever or what ever way you like and want.


Last edited by vickeyv on Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jariten
Company Representative


Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 171
Location: Here and there

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:02 am Reply with quote
As someone who has been in fandom for a while now, I'd like to comment on the rant:

1)Some of the people getting into anime now may have never before had the opportunity to be exposed to it. Grouping those people in with the people that Jason roasts is a bad idea.

2)I work for a few conventions. We are lacking volunteers in a VERY serious way. Yet, when we give a few high school students the chance to gain experience as a member of staff or a volunteer, there is a circle of "old school" fans that complain about "unprofessional staff." Thank you, uber fan, for moaning about young people when you never volunteer yourself. Which leads to point 3:

3)Congratulations, you are biting the hand that feeds you. For years, we whined and complained about the lack of good anime getting licensed as we sat before our TVs watching Kodocha and Tomodachi fansubs of shows like Marmalade Boy and Fushigi Yuugi. Now that the market is big enough to support the release of such titles, you would think that most people would be happy, right? Apparently not.

I do see the problem with some "new school" fans, but let's face it: annoying people exist in every corner of society. Complaining is okay, and Jason's rant is great... but if you complain, please make sure that you aren't part of the problem.
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lazuline



Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 66
Location: Park Slope

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:04 am Reply with quote
EDIT

VICKEYV,

I wish I could write as well as you. My english is still a bit shabby, but I think we brought up relatively the same idea in our posts.

EDIT

Well the way I see it… …Which is probably flawed?

Animedom as I see it working upon myself, is a response to American media's alienation of the 16-34 year old-- primarily male. (And more recently females as the licensed properties are expanding beyond what was once considered an entirely adolescent male demographic-most growth occuring in manga). It is a rejection of tasteless episodic action series (i.e. anything from FOX) and R rated movies that are rarely financially successful but continue to be made in hopes of selling DVDs. Instead, anime fans favor a healthy variety of serial anime series that offer both indulgences in the carnal and the cerebral. Additionally, since nerds in general are usually elitists, younger anime nerds (at a stage in their life in which they need to define themselves as individuals) revel in belonging to a movement that is still somewhat exclusive to the uninitiated "anime-is-kid-stuff-wth-is-bittorent?" layman.


Now in terms of chronology:

There are roughly five generations of American Anime fans.

g1) 1970s: people from this generation are now either very creepy or incredibly knowledgeable guru like figures.

g2) 1980s: vhs fansub generation. kind of like g1, now either very creepy or incredibly knowledgeable.

g3) 1995: the dragonball/sailormoon/tenchimuyo/eva generation

g4) 1999: the pokemaniacs

g5) 2000s: bookstore manga; yu-gi-oh ; toonami(now AS) ; online fansub; scanslation; exponential growth of anime/manga generation.

Well, that’s my perspective. I'm 19 (so that is roughly g3) and I became hooked on anime/manga around 3rd grade with Sunday morning 6:00am airings of dragonball on UPN. This later snowballed into Sailormoon and so forth...

How is any of this topical?:

People who started in g5 are usually the most hated of all anime fans (bitchy 12-16 year old who think they are the "l33Test" people on the planet). Not surprisingly, these are the fans defined by Draksler's RANT. Personaly, I don't find anything wrong with them. Their behavior is merely indicative or their age/imaturity


Last edited by lazuline on Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:39 am; edited 4 times in total
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 5864
Location: Penguinopolis

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:05 am Reply with quote
It's not that Jason's article didn't make some interesting points, but I didn't see any actual point to it - I was sitting here reading it going, "Yeah, so? And what do you suggest to them? Are these people a real hazard and what is your advice to them?" That is, there is no real operative motivation or message in it.

But then, it is a "rant". I'll chalk it up to a "kids these days" dismissal of current trends and be on my merry way.
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vickeyv



Joined: 31 Jan 2006
Posts: 183

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:09 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
It's not that Jason's article didn't make some interesting points, but I didn't see any actual point to it - I was sitting here reading it going, "Yeah, so? And what do you suggest to them? Are these people a real hazard and what is your advice to them?" That is, there is no real operative motivation or message in it.

But then, it is a "rant". I'll chalk it up to a "kids these days" dismissal of current trends and be on my merry way.


Exaclty, thats why i was just wondering why it even made it to the rants section, were the other enteries that bad.
The brand of criticism is very negative and doesnot contain a single thread of constructive criticism, being negative is ok, but then its just another pissed off guy barking.


Quote:
Well, that’s my perspective. I'm 19 (so that is roughly g3) and I became hooked on anime/manga around 3rd grade with Sunday morning 6:00am airings of dragonball on UPN. This later snowballed into Sailormoon and so forth...


I am actualy 19 myself but i consider to be a part of the 2nd Generation, becasue when i was like 5+, the shows which were readily broadcast on my local tv stations were 1980 classics, like Transformers, Voltron, G-force, Robotech and even Mazinger Z and later Speed Racer. And i find myself accepting older visual quality where as the post 1999 generation can't bare old styled coloring and stuff, i think.
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