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NEWS: Mainstream Moe Raises Artist's Ire


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Vekou



Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 5:01 pm Reply with quote
I have a new hero.
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fxg97873



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 203
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 5:24 pm Reply with quote
Here's the full Mainichi article if anybody is interested:
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/​waiwai/​news/​20060512p2g00m0dm014​000c.​html

The intolerance from this lady is quite sad and it's magnified by her elitism and draconian definitions.

The feelings of Moe, to me, are equivalent to the feelings you get when you see a cute kitten (e.g. protective, paternal/maternal, caring). Like most normal people, I don't actually want to do "anything" with the cat.

She's lumping things together and making perverted assumptions.

mk2000


Last edited by fxg97873 on Sun May 14, 2006 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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chrisb



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 452
Location: TX, USA

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 5:27 pm Reply with quote
Wow, finally someone has the guts to blast the same weirdos who are their fans. Bigtime-Otakus have gotten out of hand and need a good slap in the face from reality.

Last edited by chrisb on Sun May 14, 2006 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MorwenLaicoriel



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 1548
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 5:33 pm Reply with quote
I'm kinda back and forth on her comments...

In some ways, I think what she's saying is correct. Maybe not all 'Moe' fans are thinking in a sexual way...but a heck of a lot of them ARE. She's sort of exaggerating the problem, but it's THERE, and it's frankly a little disturbing.

At the same time, though, her comments about some of the 'otaku' stuff is rediculous. If I have to close myself off from the world to consider myself a true fan, I'm glad I'm not really an Otaku. Rolling Eyes
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jsevakis
ANN Director of New Media


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1518
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:06 pm Reply with quote
Well, to make one thing clear, what we think of as the meaning of "otaku" is very different from the Japanese definition. The Japanese definition is closer to "shut-in"; the type who live in their mom's basement and barely venture out. She's a reformed otaku, as that kind of "otaku" is definitely NOT healthy, and she's trying to say, "wake up Otaku Culture! This is insanity!"

I'm not sure going on the offensive is the best way of persuading people, mind you, but I'm glad someone is saying something.

Drawing cute 8-year-old girls is one thing. Drawing cute 8-year-old girls showing their panties is quite another. Any guy who gets a hard-on from that needs to have an M-80 duct-taped to their junk.

Edit:Not that I'm advocating such a thing. But if one Japanese friend of mine is right, and the average age for losing one's virginity now in that country is hovering around the 10-years-old mark, something is clearly wrong.


Last edited by jsevakis on Mon May 15, 2006 4:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Josh7289



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 1252
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:08 pm Reply with quote
I was going to say about the same thing as you, MorwenLaicoriel. These moe otaku that she describes are just that: pedophiles. And what's worse is the fact that many of these people are now acting out in real life their twisted fantasies. These kinds of people should just be locked up right away.

I really can't see how the Japanese government can be so lax about this serious problem in their country. There are freaking vending machines that sell used four-year old girls' underwear over there! WTF?!

Even though Mimei Sakamoto is 120% correct about the moe stuff, I wonder about her other remarks about being a true otaku. She confesses to being one, but she says that also entails shutting oneself off from the rest of the world. If that's what she believes makes a true otaku, then whatever. Really, that would be better for these moe fans that going out and committing crimes of child abuse.

MorwenLaicoriel wrote:
If I have to close myself off from the world to consider myself a true fan, I'm glad I'm not really an Otaku. Rolling Eyes


Agreed.
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:25 pm Reply with quote
Sakamoto wrote:
Perhaps it's because 'Train Man' (the story of an otaku who wins the heart of a pretty woman) was such a hit, but recently I've seen all these dorky guys walking around in thick glasses and checkered shirts and it pains my heart to think that they may be hoping to meet some pretty girl who's going to fall in love with them. Sorry guys, the chances of that happening are zero,

Man talk about harsh, dorky guys can't even dream these days.

Sakamoto wrote:
There's a tendency in the otaku market to avoid producing contents that are going to sell in terms of millions or tens of millions. Instead, they find a semi-hit then bring out figurines, DVD box sets, premium editions and all sorts of related materials that are drastically over-wrapped and sell to the same people who bought the original product in the first place," the manga artist says. "So-called otaku are caught up in this money making cycle and all they're doing is spending their hard-earned yen (which often comes from their parents in a lot of cases). And, what's really sad, is that loads of these gullible suckers don't even realize that they're being taken for a ride.

Now this is totally right on.
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PantsGoblin
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 2969
Location: Agoura Hills, CA

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:29 pm Reply with quote
I don't know what's more stupid, the writer of the article who claims to be an otaku (when in truth she's just a sad hikikomori who doesn't understand the concept of moe) or the people on this thread who actually agree with her. Why do people comment on things they're completely ignorant of? (oh wait, most people on the internet are stupid)

MorwenLaicoriel wrote:
Maybe not all 'Moe' fans are thinking in a sexual way...but a heck of a lot of them ARE.


That's true, myself included. Moe and sexual desires are completely different though. People group them together all the time, which is where the problem comes. Either attempt to understand something before judging it, and if you can't understand it, don't comment on it at all. Otherwise it just makes you look like an idiot.

Mimei Sakamoto wrote:
I'm a fully-fledged otaku. I used to shut myself away from the world. A real otaku would never go out and about in the world because they wouldn't believe anything good could happen to them if they did so, anyway. They all believe the world is out to get them, Real otaku should go back and shut yourselves off from the world again. The true value of being a real otaku lay in the belief that nobody else understands you.


Really? You sound just like a hikikomori, not an otaku at all. I consider myself an otaku, I am not and do not want to become a hikikomori. Locking yourself up to the world sounds sad (what a hikikomori is), having a passion and deeply invovling yourself in something you like, I don't see a problem with that at all (heck, I'm sure most people are hugely invovled in at least something. Yes, that would make most people an otaku).

Dargonxtc wrote:
Sakamoto wrote:
There's a tendency in the otaku market to avoid producing contents that are going to sell in terms of millions or tens of millions. Instead, they find a semi-hit then bring out figurines, DVD box sets, premium editions and all sorts of related materials that are drastically over-wrapped and sell to the same people who bought the original product in the first place," the manga artist says. "So-called otaku are caught up in this money making cycle and all they're doing is spending their hard-earned yen (which often comes from their parents in a lot of cases). And, what's really sad, is that loads of these gullible suckers don't even realize that they're being taken for a ride.

Now this is totally right on.


This is the only part that may be somewhat true. I myself am completely aware of it though. I like to support products I like (amazing concept) so I don't mind paying slightly more then usual.

Vekou wrote:
I have a new hero.


Rolling Eyes
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tripperdan99



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:44 pm Reply with quote
A pedophile is a pedophile. Some are introduced to the concept or live out their fantasies through the tolerance of moe, then hentai takes it a step closer. Trash is trash, and there will always be parasites and rodents that flourish in such an environment. Such an unwise path to walk, imho.

Kudos to Manga artist Mimei Sakamoto

td99

PS I apologize, when I said hentai, I ment the specific type that fostered pedophiliac fetishes


Last edited by tripperdan99 on Sun May 14, 2006 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dormcat
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Joined: 08 Dec 2003
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Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:50 pm Reply with quote
[ This post was not in English and has therefore been removed ]
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Josh7289



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 1252
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:52 pm Reply with quote
PantsGoblin wrote:
MorwenLaicoriel wrote:
Maybe not all 'Moe' fans are thinking in a sexual way...but a heck of a lot of them ARE.


That's true, myself included. Moe and sexual desires are completely different though. People group them together all the time, which is where the problem comes. Either attempt to understand something before judging it, and if you can't understand it, don't comment on it at all. Otherwise it just makes you look like an idiot.


Woah, woah, woah. Are you saying you are a pedophile? Please explain yourself on that one.
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 6:55 pm Reply with quote
Hey dormcat you mind translating that for us.


Your laughing circle dude is fascinating.
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Case



Joined: 09 Apr 2002
Posts: 1016

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 7:08 pm Reply with quote
Insert politically correct pedophile-hate rant here.

Thought about asking the forum for a definition of moe, what kind of anime or manga titles we're talking about here, whether Sakamoto-san is actually on to something or just trying to make noise to get attention for the single manga work that she has listen in the Encyclopedia... but I realize from the posts already made that it's not worth the effort.

Suffice it to say that if you think all "normal" anime fans should be watching Eureka Seven, you're more than likely just a bigot who needs to back off and let other people have their own opinions.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9519
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 7:15 pm Reply with quote
Wikipedia Japan wrote:
さかもと 未明(さかもと みめい、1965年10月21日 - )は、漫画家、作家。

神奈川県出身。1984年神奈川県立厚木高等学校、1988年高学歴の玉川大学文学部英文学科卒業。OL(商社)を経て1989年に漫画家としてデビュー、主にポルノレディースコミック誌に連載し、一躍人気漫画家になる。2000年には「文学界」にて作家デビュー。



Oh, don't forget this:

Quote:
保守系メディアに多く登場するほか、雑誌やマスメディアでの発言では、男性にいわゆる「男らしさ」を強く求め、ジェンダーフリーを批判したり、徴兵制復活を提言したり、封建的家父長制を推進する、男性への独身税を提案するなどの言動が目立っているため、一般的には保守派であると思われている。


English Translation:

She started her career as a porno manga artist. Target audiences were female, though.

She's also known for being very conservative, advocating
  • Restarting conscription
  • Paternal dominance and hierarchy in families
  • Collecting "single tax" from single males

And she loves cosplaying.

Dargonxtc wrote:
Your laughing circle dude is fascinating.

That's from Yahoo!

Josh7289 wrote:
These moe otaku that she describes are just that: pedophiles. And what's worse is the fact that many of these people are now acting out in real life their twisted fantasies. These kinds of people should just be locked up right away.

Then why havne't United States banned all baby beauty pageant activities with real girls yet? How about violent movies and video games that "caused people killing each other?" Knives, skrewdrivers, and even ball point pens can kill people too. Ban, ban, ban them all, and we'll have an Utopia where no crime would ever happen.

Rolling Eyes

How about some "bullet controls?" Laughing

Case wrote:
...whether Sakamoto-san is actually on to something or just trying to make noise to get attention for the single manga work that she has listen in the Encyclopedia...

Her name was added (not by me) after this news was put on the front page.


Last edited by dormcat on Sun May 14, 2006 7:23 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Doddler



Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 7:15 pm Reply with quote
Some people do find sexual gratification through 'Moe', but why is that wrong? Its a victim-less act and merely a branch of adult animation. You may not agree with it, but there is no harm in it. If you think things should be banned because it has the potential to incite someone to perform a crime, then nothing in this world would work.

The problem facing japan (and otaku in general) is that of a mental state, where people who are weak and wish to feel confort without feeling threatened are attracted to moe. But moe does not cause the problem at hand, but is just an outlet where these people express themselves. You're dealing with hikikomori who shut themselves away from society and will turn to anything to fell comfort. Targeting Moe as the cause of the problem is foolish. One could draw parallels to the current situation with violent gaming in north america.
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