Forum - View topicNEWS: Mainstream Moe Raises Artist's Ire
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The Xenos
 Posts: 1519 Location: Boston |
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Now this is why I hate when American fans, and especially companies, use the term Otaku. They have no clue what the term natively means or its history. I'm sick of fans who glomp onto these words and don't really know their meaning.
As for this moe trend, I don't think it should be banned. Yet at the same time you see companies catering to this fetish and that feels wrong. Oh who am I kidding, it's not just Japan. You remember that first Britney Spears video. They do it in America too. We're just not so up front with it, which is somewhat worse. Of course let's not get into how even the US pornographic iindustry uses legal 18 year olds and dresses them up in fantasy situations of much younger girls. Barely legal girls dressing up as jailbait and acting out pedophilic fantasies. The newstands and porn stores are filled with this fetish. Hell, it's not even a fetish, it's the standard. (Um.. or so I hear from people who look at that stuff.) At least in Japan they use cartoon images, not real people. Now I do find this stuff disturbing, I am against banning any fiction. I am against companies preying on these poor shut ins and their obvious and distubing fetish. People should be free to have these fictional fantasies. When they start acting on them like in the case of serial killer Tsutomu Miyazaki, then we have a problem that must be delt on a case by case basis, not as an attack on a whole group. I have to agree with her on Densha Otoku. I saw the show it was neat, but it was also one huge marketing gimmick. It was worse than Friends, except it was aimed at nerds in Tokyo instead of trendy American 20 somethings. The makers of the show saw a nerd market and made the show. I've heard rumors that the supposed real life messageboard post the show, manga, book, and movie were based on was doctored by the companies that made the show. I can only imagine these poor kids going out to trainstations to meet girls. Given false hope by this horrible TV show. A friend of mine was saying he heard sales of that Hermes dishware like in the show spiked because of it. That tea that everyone drank in one ep? Sales of that skyrocketed. Of course now I hear they're making an anime based on the one in the show or something? Wow. What a brilliant marketing scam on all these foolish otaku. Speaking of shut ins, I belive this may be atributed to a metal disorder, one I wonder about myself with. This week Time Magazine has a special on Autism. There are milder forms that sound a lot like this otaku sterotype of a shut in. I can't help but think that they may be connected and marketing companies are taking advantage of this. As for my own moe art collection, I do have a couple of doujins. Well, I got one gohtic lolita one that actually has no nudity. I really liked the art as I had a wallpaper of the cover, but didn't know where it was from. I also picked up an Episode of the Clovers pencil board also because I liked the art. Of course, one of them had three young girls lying rather naked. Yeah, it's kinda wrong, but I loved the artist and his style. So should we ban these? To that point I question why don't we just go ban some paintings in art museums if they have nudity of questionable age? I don't see how such censorship of fictional material works and am completely against it. Last edited by The Xenos on Sun May 14, 2006 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I love the people in this thread that are like, "Wow, if you feel this way, then you should be locked up, have bad things happen, ect."
So in other words, avocating punishment for thoughts, not actions. Thought crimes. I've THOUGHT about commiting suicide in the past. Suicide is illegal by law. I should be locked away so I don't think of killing myself? Or maybe if I THINK about the government in a bad way, I should have my mind changed so that I THINK the "right way"? A dangerous road. I'm not avocating child abuse - it's clear that people who are sexually attracted to young children have some issues which must be addressed. But, as long as they aren't acting on their urges in a way that endangers the lives and well being of real people, then the only thing they're guilty of is being a bit perverted and immature. Mimei Sakamoto should also be aware that THOUGHTS aren't grounds for arrest, at least not in the country I'm from. At least, not for the time being. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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dormcat you may have uncovered something that makes this person a hypocrite. She has a history of making porno manga and then she's blasting the moe otakus, that just doesn't fit. True, Densha Otoko may have started a trend could get out of line, though.
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AstroNerdBoy
 Posts: 413 Location: Denver, CO |
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I've heard of several female manga-ka, but not Sakamoto-sensei. Granted living in the U.S. would certainly be a limiting factor, but I think there are more prominent female manga-ka than her. But I digress... Sakamoto-sensei said:
First, there's nothing wrong with believing you can meet a pretty girl who will fall in love with you. A runner-up to the beauty paget several years ago was dating a dude that was nicknamed "Carrot Top." I was happy for him, but to see them together, it was hard to believe that someone as hot as her would be in a serious relationship with a guy that looked like him. So it *can* happen, even if it is unlikely (as some of us can attest to). Still, look at how she judges these "dorky guys" on their appearances and makes assumptions about what they might be thinking. Sheeze. What an elitist!
Hmmmm. Well, considering how popular the young girl look is in Japan, and has been for YEARS, what is she ranting about. Heck, when I went to Japan in 1989, I didn't know much about the culture, but even coming from a small town in Alabama, I knew about the Japanese love of the girl in the sailor seifuku (even if I didn't know the proper term). I wonder how that happened (seriously)? When I lived in Japan, anime was full of the young girl look. I was told that Project A-Ko was in part a parody of the Japanese love of the girl in the sailor seifuku who could kick arse. Manga had the same thing. There were magazines with young girls in their seifuku. I just did a look-see and I think the numbers have increased over the years. There's "Pure" magazine along with tons of others in Kanji which I can't translate. These are REAL photos folks of young girls in bikinis, underwear, sexy poses, etc. All legal, and based on how things were when I lived in Japan, I suspect that they are available all over, and men (not just "otaku") are reading them. Heck, I have an old copy of Shounen Sunday, which I bought from a local Japanese bookstore in the U.S. to practice my Japanese reading skills (it has Furigana and hiragana rather than straight Kanji and hiragana text). The cover has a 14-year old female idol, and the inside has several full-color photos of her in bikinis and the like.
First, I agree with Barbapapa because I think "moe" can't be what she's getting so upset about. She could be using the work "moe," but I feel she's talking about lolicon since I define moe as Akamatsu-sensei does (that definition is earlier in the thread). Second, while it may be politically incorrect, the Supreme Court in the U.S. ruled that drawings of children in sexual poses did not equate to child porn. The result meant that one could now own every hentai Cardcaptor Sakura doujinshi out there and not be busted for CP. If you do some looking, it is amazing how much lolicon hentai material is out there, both in manga, doujinshi, game, and H-anime form. Then again, it really isn't that amazing. As the saying went when I lived in Japan, there isn't a sexual fetish that the Japanese haven't drawn and published.  ;;;
The rest of Sakamoto-sensei's comments regarding otaku shutting themselves in are just stupid and I won't remark on them. I would like to bring up an item of interest though. It wasn't so long ago that girl could be married once she was old enough to bare children. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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You can get married at 16 in Japan. |
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The Xenos
Posts: 1519 Location: Boston |
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Very good point. It's one I constanly make myself. Anyone who's read 1984 or Farenheit 451 should be aware of this scary idea, one that goverments still try to continually pass. I know Canada is on shaky ground. I heard if it wasn't for the War on Terror, this was one of Bush's plans, banning 'virtual child pornography'. (Then again I'm one of those crazy nuts who think the War on Terror was planned before 9/11.)
Hey, what's wrong with making pornographic manga? If anything I would think it makes her point more valid. She was in the industry, doesn't she have a right to be critical of what it does? |
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yaya-san
Posts: 4 |
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Why would a pedo get married? In 2 years the wife would be too old for him.
I have read some theories on moe and they are like when you listen to a pedo explaining why they like little kids. |
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LordRobin
Posts: 354 Location: Akron, OH |
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So let me see if I get this straight. This individual is a female author who argues an extreme right-wing position which includes a staunch traditionalist view of the role of women.
What is she, the Japanese Ann Coulter? Wouldn't that traditional role preclude her little writing-manga-and-speaking-in-public hobby? ------RM |
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jmays
ANN Associate Editor
 Posts: 1390 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Are you talking about the Time cartoon? |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6867 Location: Kazune City |
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 You know, if otaku get this much hatred from women, can you blame them for closing themselves off and focusing their affections on fantasy girls? After all, if the steretypes are believed, women will treat things touched by otaku as defiled objects. Besides, she really does misunderstand moé and equates it to lolicon paedophilia. I mean, maybe the "perverts and losers" part is accurate, but paedophila? Not quite. I aways thought that 萌え meant "budding," not "gushing"--it's got that grass radical on the top, after all. Sounds like a convenient misinterpretation to make moé sound worse.
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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I thought that it was with the parents' permission only. Either way a female marrying at age 16 is not good, It only means that this person will be in a dependent relationship. She prob won't be able to go to college or get a good job. If this was in the US, a typical scenario would be the female would be on welfare with the kids and the guy would be gone. The mangaka's rant did have a few good points. We're prob not seeing all sides of the moe subculture, since most of us are not in Japan. There could be a lolicon subset (closet lolicons) in the moe subculture because moe is more acceptable and the material is more accessible. So, I personally won't criticize her. Anyway, something that idolizes immature females and immature female nuissances (ex. clumsiness, dependency on others) is not helping women over there to become more independent. It's just another form of female subjugation. That Time Asia comic was a sad social commentary on their choices over there. I also agree with her on the subject of the Japanese otaku getting the girl. |
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yaya-san
Posts: 4 |
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Great point, man. |
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DarkMirage
Posts: 19 Location: Singapore |
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Someone said that moe leads to "hentai". I lol'ed.
Someone said that moe is a type of "hentai". I've never lol'ed so hard. It's hard to have a discussion about Otakuism on an English forum because few people actually have any idea what the terms they are throwing around really mean. In the end people are actually getting worked up over different things. It's writers like these that further aggrevate this problem. "Hmmm... using lolicon won't give enough impact. Let's use moe instead." |
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jmays
ANN Associate Editor
Posts: 1390 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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This, I think, is the interesting part. Sakamoto didn't say it quite like this (and I know it's easier to simply paint her as a hypocrite and then ignore even the fair points she made), but the idea that "otaku" (the antisocial shut-in kind) behavior is carving a public niche through this moe stuff is kind of alarming. So let's try this: cut out the knee-jerk protesting (her most absurd statements are self evident, especially on an anime site) and ask yourself about the heart of her argument. Are "otaku" finding a place in the mainstream? How? Why? |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Well, if she's making it, and then attacking people who are supporting it, then she's really contradicting the issue. That's because she's making the very thing that these people are hooked onto. |
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