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Hey, Answerman! [2006-05-18]


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RabbitRevolution



Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Posts: 218

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 12:16 am Reply with quote
Speaking as a girl about fanservice as well.....Excessive cleavage and panty shots used to bother me a lot whenever I saw them in anime/manga. Then I discovered the wonder of Boys Love/yaoi Anime catgrin Now I really don't care so much about the number of series out there that are nothing but racy bishoujou fanservice fests with pretty packaging. As long as BL mangaka and (a few) animators continue to crank out series for yaoi fans like me, it's easier for me to ignore the elements of anime that I don't like. If I want anime fans to tolerate the presence of yaoi in the greater fandom, then I've realized that it's better to keep my mouth shut about fanservice directed towards hetero guys.
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Trowa



Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 6
Location: "Hell" Valley, California

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 1:13 am Reply with quote
I can honestly identify with Lauren's situation; there have been quite a few times when passersby have quickly noticed what I'm watching because of fan service. Unfortunately, there response is more like, "Whoa, what kinda show are you watching?" rather than, "What’s this, looks interesting." Honestly, I do enjoy moderate fan service such as Faye, but it can be a little irritating when it's overdone.
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Fui



Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 1:35 am Reply with quote
Bootlegs is certainly a fun but negative word. You should coin it with a new meaning.

I think a lot of people fall under the "glorious life as a manga-ka/anime industry employee" image that Zac is trying to dispel (and probably fighting a losing battle at). I do at times. Even my mom has since she suggested I write manga even though I'm already getting a science degree. I think Zac's objective view on the anime/manga industry is important to keep in mind when considering getting into the field as an employee though, as unfortunately realistic as it is.

Just for once, though, I'd like to hear a great success story here on the forums. Something along the lines of, "I'm working for (insert anime company) right now and having a blast working with all of the talented anime artists and writers. Here's some cels I worked on! I'll fill you guys in on the new season of (insert new popular anime here) as soon as I get back from my trip from Japan! Oh yeah I make 6 digits!"
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Wyvern



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 633

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 1:41 am Reply with quote
RabbitRevolution wrote:
Speaking as a girl about fanservice as well.....Excessive cleavage and panty shots used to bother me a lot whenever I saw them in anime/manga. Then I discovered the wonder of Boys Love/yaoi Anime catgrin Now I really don't care so much about the number of series out there that are nothing but racy bishoujou fanservice fests with pretty packaging. As long as BL mangaka and (a few) animators continue to crank out series for yaoi fans like me, it's easier for me to ignore the elements of anime that I don't like. If I want anime fans to tolerate the presence of yaoi in the greater fandom, then I've realized that it's better to keep my mouth shut about fanservice directed towards hetero guys.


Hear, hear. I can't stand it when some females will go on huge tangents about how fanservice shows are bad and evil and sexist and wrong, and then turn around and go back to reading their copy of Shirtless Men Touching Each Other Volume 4. How about everyone just enjoy their own thing and leave it at that? Equality is good!

It is a shame when non-otaku decide that anyone watching anime must be a giant pervert, but some people always seem to be looking for an excuse to pass judgement on someone. If you play video games you must be a violent psycho, listen to rap, you must be a drug dealer, watch anime, you must be a panty thief, etc. In the 80's, people who watched anime were considered childish by non-fans and in the 90's, they were considered to be violence junkies who got off on watching cartoons where people get their insides ripped out. There's always going to be stereotypes about anime (and plenty of other things), because there are people who just love to use stereotypes as an excuse to dump on others. They're the ones with the problem, not us, and we shouldn't have to change to accomodate them. If all fanservice ceased to exist tommorow, they'd just find some other excuse to be jerks when they saw you watching anime.

In those situations where people have seen me watching anime and declared me a pervert, I usually respond to the person by saying "the very fact that you think that is proof you have no idea what you're talking about," and leaving it at that. Or if that doesn't work, I steal their panties. WHATTA HAUL!
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Successful_Troll



Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 1:48 am Reply with quote
I think it just depends on some people thinking cartoons are for kids, and as such not expecting boobs. I'm sure lots of people here have friends that would say nothing if they saw you watching hardcore porn, but if they catch you watching a cartoon with a nipple, they'll freak out. That said, it really strikes me more as a complaint as a rant.
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W3b3r



Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 59
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 4:04 am Reply with quote
Successful_Troll wrote:
I think it just depends on some people thinking cartoons are for kids, and as such not expecting boobs. I'm sure lots of people here have friends that would say nothing if they saw you watching hardcore porn, but if they catch you watching a cartoon with a nipple, they'll freak out. That said, it really strikes me more as a complaint as a rant.


thats a definite. I've had friends get turned off series because of a little fanservice. the worst case I've ever seen is in elfen lied. many people consider this to be a great show and i agree with them. it has huge amounts of nudity and the show gives reasons for it but it still didn't have to be there. however the story line to the show is its main attribute. it doesnt feel like fanservice in any way because it takes a huge backseat to the story. well thats how i feel anyway.
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DriftRoot



Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Posts: 221
Location: NH

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 7:58 am Reply with quote
Lauren here.

One thing I didn't touch on in my rant was the whole Japanese vs. American view of sexuality, nudity etc. I could have, but I think I made my point without having to do so. Besides, trying to explain to someone already upset about fanservice that it's more acceptable on the other side of the Pacific isn't going to help justify why YOU, a non-Japanese person, are watching it. (Trust me, I've tried this tactic and it always backfires). Hehe, I have to admit, there was a period of time early-on in my anime fandom when I was embarrassed when the whole how-to-justify-fanservice situation was foisted upon me by a non-fan, but (as my rant probably implies), I've moved waaayy past that. I've got fanservice and how I deal with it sorted out in my own mind pretty well and kind of just laugh at people who try to criminalize me for watching it. Their feelings about fanservice aren't my problem, after all, they're THEIR problem, and I'll help them deal with it as much as I can, but there's a limit to what I can do to shed a different light on the subject.

RabbitRevolution wrote:
As long as BL mangaka and (a few) animators continue to crank out series for yaoi fans like me, it's easier for me to ignore the elements of anime that I don't like. If I want anime fans to tolerate the presence of yaoi in the greater fandom, then I've realized that it's better to keep my mouth shut about fanservice directed towards hetero guys.


Now there's something that never even crossed my mind when I was writing the rant. Unlike male-oriented fanservice, yaoi elements really distract me and even take away from my enjoyment of a given series if it becomes excessive. There's a few anime that I really wish didn't have it at all (Angel Sanctuary, Yami no Matsui, among others) because I think the story is fine without it. Again, though, it's a marketing gimmick to reel in the fangirls, so who am I to complain if I don't make a fuss about those cocked and loaded bustiers in Grenadier? That series, btw, was my most recent experience with attempting to justify fanservice and yes, I failed utterly, although at least I got everyone to agree that men are pigs. (Not my words!)
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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5555
Location: Coon Rapids, MN

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 8:29 am Reply with quote
I don't think it's so much the oversexed aspect of the show but rather that it often reaches ridiculous proportions. No one will deny that sex sells, pretty much every culture out there has recognized that factor for centuries, but it does sometimes reach a point that it gets to the point it's no longer sexual but comical.

The abundance fanservice is the other factor, it's pretty much an anime cliche at this point in that nearly every series has blatant fanservice regardless of how necessary it is for the story or how well it fits. While I don't assault people for fanservice, especially since I watch anime myself, I do sort of see where they're coming from. To me it's more of a representation that anime, like Hollywood, has its negative cliche's that can be just as much of a negative as anything on this side of the ocean.
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Iritscen



Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 790

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 9:01 am Reply with quote
Speaking as a guy who got into anime for its action and smart stories, but not its sexiness, fanservice can't help but make me uncomfortable. Perhaps I just need to lighten up, but I feel like the fanservice detracts from the integrity of any series that's trying to tell a serious story. I feel the same way about any live-action series or movie that uses sexy scenes to sell itself.

Look at how Rurouni Kenshin manages to be a fantastic series, with some cute female characters to boot, but it never once relies on anything approaching fanservice (let's just forget about the bath scene they inserted into the anime in the 1st epsiode, shall we?), and the women are relatively normally-endowed.

I was appalled when I watched the first episode of Divergence Eve; were those breasts on those girls' chests or emergency flotation devices? Was I supposed to take this seriously as a sci-fi series? Even if the episode itself hadn't been terrible, I would have been disinclined to watch any more of the show.

I didn't have a problem with the fanservice in Evangelion for some reason; perhaps because they openly advertised it in each episode. It was rather tongue-in-cheek at first, and I just laughed a little at the parodic element to it; and then it seemed, as the series became more serious, that there wasn't even any fanservice at all, even when the preview said there would be, or perhaps it was so subtle that I just missed it; is a quick shot of part of Misato's chest "fanservice" when it shows the scar she received during Second Impact? I certainly didn't take it as such.

Perhaps I care too much about other people's impression of what I watch. But I can't honestly defend fanservice, whereas I'll proudly defend my rights to watch anything from Dragon Ball Z (the afore-mentioned "action") to Gundam Wing (the "smart stories"). And I feel like if I can't defend it to others, then it's probably not something I should bother watching, because I like to be able to share my favorite shows with others, not have to keep them a secret out of embarrassment.

P.S.: I do tend to cut the Japanese some slack when it comes to comedic shows like "Abenobashi". It's when they actually seem to be using the DDDDD breasts to attract an audience that I balk, personally.
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BrianRuh



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 154
Location: Austin, TX, USA

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 9:28 am Reply with quote
Re: Jobs in the "Industry"

Not that I'm really qualified to offer career advice to anyone, but academia provides another way of being involved in anime/manga to some degree, although it's admittedly not the "industry." A job in academia could provide you with relative financial stability (depending on your chosen field and the job market at the time) and give you the opportunity to explore some of your favorite series at the same time. For instance, a book on anime just came out that has a chapter on FLCL in it that I wrote. Why did I choose FLCL? Because I'm a fan of the series. Of course, I'd like to think that my writing is more than just mildly-disguised fan gushing.

The down sides? Well, the pay can be pretty crap at first, especially as a grad student. And unlike commercial writing, academic writing in general tends not to pay. (In all the things I've written, I've only actually gotten paid for one of them. Even that one, though, paid less than minimum wage if I break it down into how must I earned compared to the number of hours I spent on it.) And most of what you'll be doing on a day-to-day basis will have nothing to do with anime or manga, especially early in your career. But when you get the chance to do your own research, you'll be able to delve into your own interests.

More and more academic programs are becoming used to people who want to study anime and manga. Compared to film and literature in general, there is still a lot on anime/manga that has yet to be written.

Anyway, just something to keep in mind if you're academically inclined.
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Cowpunk



Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 168
Location: Oakland - near the Newtype Lab

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 9:44 am Reply with quote
Iritscen wrote:

It's when they actually seem to be using the DDDDD breasts to attract an audience that I balk, personally.

Hum sounds like the strategy of mainstream US comic books.

On the topic of license fees the fluctuations beween the dollar and yen also play a role. The dramatic drop in the dollor over the last month has made Japanese products much more expensive to buy or import.

http://www.japantimes.com/​market_moves.​html
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Cowpunk



Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 168
Location: Oakland - near the Newtype Lab

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 9:47 am Reply with quote
BrianRuh wrote:
For instance, a book on anime just came out that has a chapter on FLCL in it that I wrote.


Brian, please be far more direct and tell us the title of the book so we can buy it. I sure want to.

BTW folks buy my books, heck buy them as presents!

Gilles - Gotta sell more to pay for these DVDs - Poitras
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 7233
Location: England, UK

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 9:47 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
I sure do like to say "bootlegs"!. I think that word should have a double meaning; maybe a girl who looks great in cowboy boots could be called "One fine-lookin' bootlegs!". Or perhaps if you have a pair of boots that have lasted you many years, you could claim that your boots have "great bootlegs".

Or not.
Or it could be the name of a medical condition caused by never taking one's boots off for years. "Well Mr. Llwellyn those running ulcers on your legs are what we call "bootlegs". I strongly suggest you stop wearing your boots and wash your feet and legs daily until they heal."
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DriftRoot



Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Posts: 221
Location: NH

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:15 am Reply with quote
Keonyn wrote:

The abundance fanservice is the other factor, it's pretty much an anime cliche at this point in that nearly every series has blatant fanservice regardless of how necessary it is for the story or how well it fits. While I don't assault people for fanservice, especially since I watch anime myself, I do sort of see where they're coming from. To me it's more of a representation that anime, like Hollywood, has its negative cliche's that can be just as much of a negative as anything on this side of the ocean.


This is actually how my rant originally started out, lamenting the prevalence of fanservice these days and how it's now the series that don't have it at all that are now remarked upon. As things went on, though, I felt it was pretty obvious WHY fanservice is now so prevalent and didn't need to be the subject of a long-winded tirade - a tirade that I actually wasn't up to producing, because (I soon realized) fanservice for me is really not a big deal. It is to some people, though, and that's what prompted the whole "yes fanservice is a huge, horrendous, appalling development" vs. "oh come on, it's just a marketing ploy, ignore it and you'll be fine."
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BrianRuh



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 154
Location: Austin, TX, USA

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:37 am Reply with quote
Cowpunk wrote:
Brian, please be far more direct and tell us the title of the book so we can buy it. I sure want to.

BTW folks buy my books, heck buy them as presents!

Gilles - Gotta sell more to pay for these DVDs - Poitras

The book is called Cinema Anime (ANN previously ran a blurb about it here, and the publisher's website with full table of contents is here.) For some reason they're only issuing it in a $40 hardcover version.

And I'll second Gilles' call for buying books on anime. (Insert sound clip of Jay Sherman from "The Critic" crying "Buy my book!" here.) Very Happy
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