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The Mike Toole Show - Back to School


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Cameron Koller



Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:16 pm Reply with quote
Correction: There is no rotoscope in Kids on the Slope. People just assumed it was. There is, however, some rotoscope in Evangelion 3.0 for its piano scenes.
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SahgoDN



Joined: 09 Mar 2013
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:31 pm Reply with quote
I don't think Tomoko is unsympathetic, really. She seems to have the right idea of how to treat people, but since she can't interact with them, she makes up excuses for herself -- the whole "I'm better than those bitches" attitude is one of those. Yeah, "crippling social anxiety hilarity!". Though I also think the show is fully aware of how unconfortable it is, which is why there are so many clearly not-funny long shots of gray, invisible Tomoko listening to "normal" people talking. I think the show is just brutally honest, which is why I enjoy it so much.

Anyway, high school! Yeah, count me in as one of those who are sick tired of high school anime. Or maybe I should say, tired of the annoying idealistic glee used to portray them. I remember good things of my high school years, sure, but I also have clear memories of bad things -- having to work in group projects with people I wasn't particularly fond of, getting insanely stressed by tests that turned out to be rather pointless in the long run, getting moody for having to wake up so early every day...I dislike when anime gloss over those things, and they always do. High school is just there to serve as a stage for romance, festivals, clubs and whatnot. When tests are mentioned, it's just to make a quick gag about how smart (or not) a character is and then back to the "positive" things. Come on. I'm not asking you to be depressingly realistic, but this is too much.

I also dislike when some authors just seem unable to *not* have high school somewhere in their works. For example, Blue Exorcist seemed to have something fresh going on with a main character who was a teenager but worked rather than studied, aaaand then he goes to his special exorcist school and surprise! It's just like a normal Japanese school, so we can have all the high school tropes in play. Oh boy! [/sarcasm].

I wish there were more anime that took place in, well, workplace. I'm aware that in Japan the idea of "working" is not fun at all (well, more strongly than other cultures' anyway), more akin to permanently becoming a drone until you get old and die. But I ask, why can't anime at least make it *look* fun? It works with high school anime, doesn't it?
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Galap



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 1224

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:35 pm Reply with quote
Cameron Koller wrote:
Correction: There is no rotoscope in Kids on the Slope. People just assumed it was. There is, however, some rotoscope in Evangelion 3.0 for its piano scenes.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasn't rotoscoped. I know that for at least some of the cuts about which there was a debate the key animator came and stated that it wasn't rotoscoped.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:36 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
outranked by shows from years ago, and in Japan the home video version was hobbled by delays and barely made it into four figures.


When did it sell another 600 copies? By four figures, you mean four multiplied by one hundred.

Quote:
The same is true of Flowers of Evil, actually-- it hasn't set the anime world ablaze, but Oshimi's manga has become a solid and sustained hit for publisher Vertical, at least partly on the strength of the animated series.


And perhaps, despite it as well.

I don't feel bad for Tomoko, she shows her true color and true nature quick often as of late in the manga, and you glimpse it quite well in the anime several times. Remove the social anxiety and she's still a bitter and resentful person. I like the series because it's entertaining to see what happens to her every chapter/episode, usually caused by something she brought down on herself. No one's bullying her or scrawling hateful things on her desk, she lives in her own paranoid little world.
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Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 1832
Location: Tekkoshocon

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:57 pm Reply with quote
SahgoDN wrote:
Anyway, high school! Yeah, count me in as one of those who are sick tired of high school anime. Or maybe I should say, tired of the annoying idealistic glee used to portray them.

Being that High School is still mostly a common event in viewers' lives, it's an easy way to build a familiar world without exposition.

Over the past few years, I've tried to become much more aware of anime and manga that focus on the issue of Japanese youth, realistic or otherwise. These look like two more to add to the list.
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thekingsdinner



Joined: 25 Sep 2010
Posts: 228
Location: Terheijden, Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:04 pm Reply with quote
I'll take Nichijou over Flowers of Evil anyday. Just saying.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
Posts: 1161

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:10 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
No one's bullying her or scrawling hateful things on her desk, she lives in her own paranoid little world.

And that is why it hits "too close to home" for some viewers, for some people trying to start up a relationship, any kind of meaningful interpersonal relation, it can certainly feel agonizing on figuring out the right words to say, but the issue isn't how hard it is to try is the part where one doesn't even try and then feeling a huge amount of self resentment for not trying.
For me at least, Tomoko's rather negative line of thinking, and sometimes her ill choice in actions, in regards to the world negates the possibility that she is a "completely innocent figure and the world is just cruel", her parents are very tolerant to her selfish nature, arguably they should be more strict but as far as most of the episodes go they allow Tomoko to do what she pleases except when Tomoko actually DOES push there buttons.
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DRWii



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:06 pm Reply with quote
Aren't the characters in "Flowers of Evil" actually supposed to be in middle school?

Personally, I'm not sick of anime being set in school, but I haven't been an anime fan for even a decade yet. Though to be honest, when I think of titles that I'm pretty confident are my favorites, the fact that the characters are in high school isn't really an important element, assuming there even are characters in high school.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 7366
Location: England, UK

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:07 pm Reply with quote
For me these title are a refreshing change to the "cute girls doing cute things" genre with the "ugly girl doing ugly things". It's also interesting that I seem to be the only one who thinks Tomoko's character design reminds me of Sadako. Wink
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ajr



Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:25 pm Reply with quote
I think for most of us who tire of "anime high school", we actually don't hate the setting. I get why it works, and there are many shows that are better for being placed there. The real issue is the implicit message in the overwhelming non-existantance of stories set after leaving school, "Nothing interesting happens after this, don't bother."

Sure, anime does also branch out to college, but I guess people stop existing after graduation, which happens when they're, what, 22-25?. It's not just anime that has the problem either, this is common to western media as well.

I just wish (as a person currently in college) there were more stories involving people after HS/college. Is there no romance allowed over the age of 30? Why do teens get to meet all the bizarre aliens that grant unwanted magical powers?
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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Location: England, UK

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:34 pm Reply with quote
The are many stories about romance and life in the world after high school graduation written and drawn in Japan, but as manga only. Animators need to make money too and sadly, or happily depending on one's point of view, adventures in high school is the flavour of the month that brings in the readies to make more. 'tis the way of the market and there we are.
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Cameron Koller



Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:36 pm Reply with quote
Galap wrote:
Cameron Koller wrote:
Correction: There is no rotoscope in Kids on the Slope. People just assumed it was. There is, however, some rotoscope in Evangelion 3.0 for its piano scenes.


Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasn't rotoscoped. I know that for at least some of the cuts about which there was a debate the key animator came and stated that it wasn't rotoscoped.


Despite popular opinion, rotoscope is not a lazy, cheap method of animation. Quite the contrary. It's a laborious, difficult, and expensive method that, especially when it's done conservatively like in early Disney, can only be executed by the best animators. Which is why it wasn't feasible for MAPPA to do rotoscope, because it would have been MORE expensive.

I suspect there's a particular bias against the method because of the bad rep Filmation built up around it, where rotoscoped footage was re-used again and again across many shows.

Aku no Hana did it right, in my view, by using the rough edges of the method to make the world of the show more twisted and uneasy, like how the characters' worldview itself is not quite right. I even like the example given of "bad" rotoscope, because it adds to that eerie atmosphere (like when characters are rendered from afar without faces). There are certain moments where I found the drawings badly designed, but otherwise I was on board with it.

I will also say that I loved the walking from school sequence, as it was the sort of scene that pops up in films but almost never in television, be it animated or live-action. But I also imagine it must have been grueling to animate.
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No Comment



Joined: 19 Jun 2012
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:58 pm Reply with quote
I would say that Revolutionary Girl Utena is my favorite high school anime, but so little of the show involves anything high school related that that feels like cheating. So instead, I'll go with the epic Cromartie High School, which doesn't do much better at representing the average high school anime.

For me, it the first couple I saw were funny, and then after that they just started blending together. My "high school shows seen" count is probably lower than most, and I still have dozens baking in my Want To See List, but I ignore most current ones unless I hear crazy stuff about them like Aku No Hana. I enjoyed things like Nichijo and Azumanga Daioh because they take the average HS tropes and do them better or go beyond what's expected. And Kare Kano was great because it felt like it had a realistic relationship with actual characters and a story to tell instead of a one cour checklist with nothing but cheek blushing. I still have things like Toradora and Boys Over Flowers that I want to see, but I take my HS anime in very small doses.

And yes, what I wouldn't give for more anime starring post high schoolers, realistic or fantastic.
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bravetailor



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 775

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:22 pm Reply with quote
When I was in high school, I mostly slacked off with friends and ate snacks in the cafeteria on my down time. It was fairly uneventful and we amused ourselves with trivial games like crazy 8 card games and trivia. It was basically like K-On, without the music playing.

Come to think of it, what K-On got right is that high school usually isn't as dramatic as it's portrayed in most media. A lot of those years are really just fluff! You get through those years the best you can, enjoy yourself in small ways, and then move on with your life.

ajr wrote:


I just wish (as a person currently in college) there were more stories involving people after HS/college. Is there no romance allowed over the age of 30? Why do teens get to meet all the bizarre aliens that grant unwanted magical powers?


Because young people are more likely to shell out the dough to watch these things? Every time we complain about there not being enough variety, when something actually "different" comes out, it completely tanks at the box office or TV ratings and we're back to the same old reliable well of generic.


Last edited by bravetailor on Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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AnimeMaine



Joined: 11 May 2009
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:24 pm Reply with quote
I'm a LONG way from high school. I understand why many manga and anime would go there; people are beginning to break away from their parents and become their "own person." They are learning about love and love lost, responsibility, independence, all those situations that form the foundation of many stories. And yes, I recognize the market forces too; high school anime with all the associated products such as figurines sell better than an anime about middle-aged couples.
As to the two anime mentioned: I am looking forward to watching WATAMOTE. I was really looking forward to Flowers of Evil based on what I read about the storyline, but I just cannot get past the art. I may buy the manga.
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